Challenger SRT DEMON wide body. Last call.

Well...it's like PT Barnum said

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I hope it never sells lol. Dealer markup on a new car is just asinine. I get it, if they aquire something on trade or get lucky and buy at an auction. The manufacturer should put a percent caap on any markup or they lose the ability to sell.
 
Yeah, the whole dealer markup thing will continue as long as people are willing to pay it. And there seems to be a lots of people who do...

I think the MSRP is a little silly as is and I'm not sure what Dodge is thinking. Yeah it's got a fire-breathing dragon under the hood and a few other goodies, but nothing I'd say warrants an MSRP over six-figures. It's still just a Challenger at it's heart. Special edition? How many have they done so far?
 
Somebody hopes to be a star at Barrett-Jackson 2074

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Yeah, the whole dealer markup thing will continue as long as people are willing to pay it. And there seems to be a lots of people who do...

I think the MSRP is a little silly as is and I'm not sure what Dodge is thinking. Yeah it's got a fire-breathing dragon under the hood and a few other goodies, but nothing I'd say warrants an MSRP over six-figures. It's still just a Challenger at it's heart. Special edition? How many have they done so far?

Agree. Have driven them, detailed them, even considered a nice 392 back in the day but at the end of it, regardless of the power, it's a rental car on an old MB Platform with a big motor. $35 for a used 392 used to be the norm and that was pushing it. Hellcats were overpriced from day 1 but today at 80-100k or whatever they are bringing it's just stupidity. This is Stupidity on steroids.
 
Agree. Have driven them, detailed them, even considered a nice 392 back in the day but at the end of it, regardless of the power, it's a rental car on an old MB Platform with a big motor. $35 for a used 392 used to be the norm and that was pushing it. Hellcats were overpriced from day 1 but today at 80-100k or whatever they are bringing it's just stupidity. This is Stupidity on steroids.

So true. New it should be around $60K even with all the recent inflation.

I helped my son-in-law walk through the process of shopping and buying a Scat Pack Charger back in early '21 when Dodge was putting all sorts of discounts on unsold MY20 models to get them off the lots. He got his for something like $6K+ below MSRP. Right before the car market lost it's mind. It was a childhood dream car for him and since he is a very large man I was just thrilled he went with something he really liked and didn't just settle for a pickup or SUV.

I have to admit the car sounds amazing, but other than that it didn't really impress me. It's shockingly heavy and you feel it when driving. The brakes and ride aren't bad, but nothing earth-shattering. Interior is decent, but again, nothing class leading or even special. I did notice that for such a massive car, the interior both front and back are pretty cramped. Maybe because they continued using a platform from a 20+ year old MB E-Class, but you'd think they could have designed an interior that makes better use of the space over all the years it was on the market.

I have to hand it to Dodge though. They essentially sold the same car with only slight mechanical and cosmetic differences and a truck-load of special editions since 2006! And people kept buying them! Dodge must have recouped the development costs long ago. The Mustang has been refreshed three times (?) and an entire lifecycle of the Camaro has come and gone in the same time.
 
So true. New it should be around $60K even with all the recent inflation.

I have to hand it to Dodge though. They essentially sold the same car with only slight mechanical and cosmetic differences and a truck-load of special editions since 2006! And people kept buying them! Dodge must have recouped the development costs long ago. The Mustang has been refreshed three times (?) and an entire lifecycle of the Camaro has come and gone in the same time.

100%. They did well. I think the move to EV's for them however is going to be a disaster. The one to buy today if you want new and nice is the last year 300C with the 6.2l Low to mid $50's around me and fully loaded.....with 2006 technology. LOL! but still very nice for a full size huge land yach with guts.

I'll stick with my Accord. Just as big if not more usable rear seat comfort, looks better, more advanced and far cheaper for a daily. Though used 300's are low 20's anymore. Just get the warranty.
 
The next Challenger/Charger or whatever it's called DOES have the I6 turbo but they've been so tight lipped, not even going to the Chicago Auto Show this year, ###!

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I hope it never sells lol. Dealer markup on a new car is just asinine. I get it, if they aquire something on trade or get lucky and buy at an auction. The manufacturer should put a percent caap on any markup or they lose the ability to sell.

Eh, it's a knife that cuts both ways. When we bought our previous 2 new 'fun' cars, they were at the end of that particular generations' run. Dealers were anxious to get them off of lots so invoice pricing, 0% financing/rebates from mfg and so forth; I certainly wasn't going to demand they stick to MSRP in that situation. Demand was waning so price dropped accordingly; demand high, prices high. At the end of the day, no one is forcing people to buy these toys so if I'm a dealer and someone is willing to pay extra and I'm not particularly concerned with developing a long-term relationship with them, I'll cash your check.

Works in all areas. We were quite happy to sell our previous home in 2021 for FAR more than I thought it was worth, even with inflation adjusted dollars factored into original purchase price. When we bought a new house in 2022 I was on the other end of the equation w/ inflated housing prices and paid more than I thought it was truly 'worth' but that was the environment and had to live somewhere!

I guess it all depends on perspective of whether a buyer and seller of any particular item in a given market climate w/ an eye towards business goal (develop longer term relationship at lower profit and hope that pays off over time) or make a quick buck.
 
At the end of the day, no one is forcing people to buy these toys so if I'm a dealer and someone is willing to pay extra and I'm not particularly concerned with developing a long-term relationship with them, I'll cash your check.

Exactly. Money talks. Dealers mark up the cars and they have no problems selling them. That sets the market conditions.
 
Guess I am wrong, but I thought I heard some time ago that one of the dealers got in big time trouble for this? That it is illegal to mark up. Manufacture caught wind of this, and the dealer got in trouble. Lost their dealer license I believe. I could totally be in the wrong?
 
Guess I am wrong, but I thought I heard some time ago that one of the dealers got in big time trouble for this? That it is illegal to mark up. Manufacture caught wind of this, and the dealer got in trouble. Lost their dealer license I believe. I could totally be in the wrong?
I thought Ford had done some cracking down on that. Don't know that it's illegal. One Dodge dealer had a demon ordered by someone that was overseas in the military when it arrived and then sold it to someone else for a huge markup. Dodge stepped in and offered them another car.
 
We ordered a Bronco and waited 2 years for it to arrive. When it arrived, it came with a $10k mark up. I went straight to Ford to complain and local news outlets to share what the dealer had planned to do to me and the dealer backed down.

Dealers are straight crooks now a days. I plan on keeping my cars until the wheels fall off and hope the market has come to its senses by the time it is time for me to get another car.

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Good for you

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Guess I am wrong, but I thought I heard some time ago that one of the dealers got in big time trouble for this? That it is illegal to mark up. Manufacture caught wind of this, and the dealer got in trouble. Lost their dealer license I believe. I could totally be in the wrong?

Dealership mark-ups aren't illegal in the US, but I think it is in other countries. Some dealerships have been hit recently for other shady practices surrounding how they conned customer's with their financing practices, but not from mark-ups.

Manufactures have taken some action on certain models when they are released, but they haven't taken action across the board. The manufacturers surveillance of their dealership practices is poor and since the dealerships are simply a franchise and not owned by the manufacturer, there is little they can do legally. The laws around auto sales are definitely in the dealership's favor.

I thought Ford had done some cracking down on that. Don't know that it's illegal. One Dodge dealer had a demon ordered by someone that was overseas in the military when it arrived and then sold it to someone else for a huge markup. Dodge stepped in and offered them another car.

The Dealership Group also fired everyone from the GM of the specific dealership down to the salespeople who were involved with the whole fiasco.

Ford and Dodge have over time weighed in a couple times on specific model threatening to limit/withhold allocations or flat-out not allowed dealerships to sell that model at all if caught, but it hasn't been consistent. Dodge seems to limit it to certain special editions of vehicles. Ford might apply restrictions to the Mustang or F-150 Raptor while allowing lunatic mark-ups of F-150 Lightening and Mavrick's.

Other manufactures like Honda, Acura, Toyota, Subaru, KIA or Chevy don't seem to care at all what their dealerships do.

I got lucky with my BRZ. When I bought it, there were dealerships marking them up $10~$20K. The dealership group I went to has a written policy of not doing mark-ups, so I was able to get away with MSRP.
 
Dealership mark-ups aren't illegal in the US, but I think it is in other countries. Some dealerships have been hit recently for other shady practices surrounding how they conned customer's with their financing practices, but not from mark-ups.

Manufactures have taken some action on certain models when they are released, but they haven't taken action across the board. The manufacturers surveillance of their dealership practices is poor and since the dealerships are simply a franchise and not owned by the manufacturer, there is little they can do legally. The laws around auto sales are definitely in the dealership's favor.

During Corvettes C8 initial frenzy, Chevy sent out a letter to dealers discouraging the practice of adding markups after the fact. Had an agreement/order in and when you went to pick it up "Oh, that'll be an additional $10k"; dealers not worried if you backed out as they could easily get the $10k markup when the C8's were hard to get. Threats to dealers of withholding future allocations if caught doing this 'bait and switch' type of deal with regards to ADM's after initial agreement in principle to sell at MSRP.

To discourage flipping cars for profit by non-dealers, when C8 Z06 came out Chevy decreed that if someone sold within 6 months of purchase, warranty would be void for subsequent owners; original owner had (or was supposed to) to sign document at delivery agreeing to this.

Lotsa games going on in car sales apparently, really ramped up during recent crazy times since COVID. Wanna buy a halo Porsche model? Well then, buy (2) SUV's at MSRP, sell them back to us at a depreciated price, grab another 'red headed stepchild' model with the same requirements and then you MAY get put on a list to buy that halo model...at a significant ADM.

Ferrari's are even more bizarrely apathetic with regards to reputations/sales I guess; they don't give a sh*t who they piss off :lol:

A local collector has recently taken an interest in Ferrari's...and the 3 or 4 'lesser' models purchased very recently are all in hopes of quickly developing the relationship necessary to be invited to purchase the next Ferrari 'ultra-special' model. These folks also have 6 or 8 McLarens, 2 or 3 Bugatti's, 10-20 other super/hyper cars but if you want a shot at an uber-Ferrari, get in line and play the game like everyone else (at that level, anyway). I guess money can't buy everything after all.

COVID really screwed up normalcy in the car biz, both new & used. On the plus side, Carvana did give me $20k+ for a nearly 6 year old Honda Accord with 75k hard miles on it so it's not all bad; just depends on which side of the fence you're on!

At the end of the day though, the consumer still has the power although it may mean not getting what we want. Even adjusted for inflation, some fun cars are getting out of practical reach; just for fun I configured a mid-level, not-loaded Corvette today...might be nice for wife to have one with auto-roof retract/hard top convertible (targa tops are, in the end, absurdly inconvenient; always seems like a good idea at the time :ack:). Adjusted for inflation the car has risen $20k from the price of the somewhat comparable-level we bought in 2019. Yeah, it's a C8, mid-engine, blah, blah blah (and I should get a discount for the hideous design of the thing from the back of the doors to the tail) but the mid-level Corvette pricing has moved out of affordable for many to "Yeah, that's not gonna work". Heck, even a base level Mustang GT is $42k.

Heck, I don't even know what this rambling diatribe started out about anyway...
 
During Corvettes C8 initial frenzy, Chevy sent out a letter to dealers discouraging the practice of adding markups after the fact. Had an agreement/order in and when you went to pick it up "Oh, that'll be an additional $10k"; dealers not worried if you backed out as they could easily get the $10k markup when the C8's were hard to get. Threats to dealers of withholding future allocations if caught doing this 'bait and switch' type of deal with regards to ADM's after initial agreement in principle to sell at MSRP.

Interesting how they encouraged (but didn't enforce) dealers to not jack up the price after an order is placed, but didn't say anything about simply jacking up the price on the front end of the sale. I don't think it stopped most dealers from either tacking on huge mark-ups post-order and it certainly didn't stop them from marking up inventory to silly levels. Is it even possible to buy a C8 today at MSRP, some four years after production started? I've been casually shopping them for a couple years and I've never seen a new one without a dealer mark up.

I read an article in one of the major car magazines a while back that talked about how the C8 may never have the same sales success of the C7 because dealer markups have pushed the car clean out of the "affordable sportscar" position it used to fill. Chevy worked really hard to hit a reasonable price point and retain it's customer base only to have their dealership network kill those efforts with markups that make the car unaffordable to the target customer.
 
Interesting how they encouraged (but didn't enforce) dealers to not jack up the price after an order is placed, but didn't say anything about simply jacking up the price on the front end of the sale. I don't think it stopped most dealers from either tacking on huge mark-ups post-order and it certainly didn't stop them from marking up inventory to silly levels. Is it even possible to buy a C8 today at MSRP, some four years after production started? I've been casually shopping them for a couple years and I've never seen a new one without a dealer mark up.

I read an article in one of the major car magazines a while back that talked about how the C8 may never have the same sales success of the C7 because dealer markups have pushed the car clean out of the "affordable sportscar" position it used to fill. Chevy worked really hard to hit a reasonable price point and retain it's customer base only to have their dealership network kill those efforts with markups that make the car unaffordable to the target customer.

The initial frenzy has died down as production has begun to coincide with demand. For a Stingray MSRP is easily possible and even saw a dealer offering 4 at invoice the other day. Now it was on social media and I didn't follow up so, well...you know :lol:

There were a few of the big dealers selling at MSRP right from the start but the lists to get the cars were in the hundreds so wait a year or 2. There are some now apparently on the ground/lot that are MSRP or a slight discount: C8 Dealer Inventory - CorvetteForum - Chevrolet Corvette Forum Discussion

There are still many dealers where ADM is still going strong...guess it never hurts to ask :lol:

Even at sticker, mid-level coupe with few options is gonna be near $85k out the door; we bought our mid level 2004 new for $36K (around $54k adjusted for inflation according to the interwebs) so...

Just for fun I Googled this: "According to recent data from Cox Automotive, the average transaction price for new cars is $48,759..."

Can that be true? There's still Honda Civics out there new for $23-25K no? Who's buying all the other stuff to bump the 'average' price up by 2X?
 
The initial frenzy has died down as production has begun to coincide with demand. For a Stingray MSRP is easily possible and even saw a dealer offering 4 at invoice the other day. Now it was on social media and I didn't follow up so, well...you know :lol:

There were a few of the big dealers selling at MSRP right from the start but the lists to get the cars were in the hundreds so wait a year or 2. There are some now apparently on the ground/lot that are MSRP or a slight discount: C8 Dealer Inventory - CorvetteForum - Chevrolet Corvette Forum Discussion

Good to hear there is some sanity returning. At least for the Stingray. I can imagine Z06's and E-Rays will be a different story.

Just for fun I Googled this: "According to recent data from Cox Automotive, the average transaction price for new cars is $48,759..."

Can that be true? There's still Honda Civics out there new for $23-25K no? Who's buying all the other stuff to bump the 'average' price up by 2X?

I think it is true. For ever Civic, Accord, or Crosstreck sold for around $30K or lower, there are probably 4 or 5 full sized pick-up trucks sold for $60 or $70K or an SUV in the $40K~$50K range. It really scews the market and the statistics. Want another scary statistic? The average US car loan term is 68.3 months for a new car with an average monthly payment of $726! If the parking lot where I work is any indication, this checks out. There are a ton of large, fairly expensive vehicles being driven by people who could only afford them by taking very long auto loans.
 
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