Claying vs. Polishing

YankeeFan

YankeeFan

New member
Joined
Dec 2, 2006
Messages
607
Reaction score
0
Can you guys straighten me out here as I see the process people use is Wash, Clay, Polish......etc. Two things: First, can you define the process know as "polishing". Is it correction or just waxing? Second, if polish means correction then can it remove dirt that clay would normally remove? So the steps would be Wash, Polish......etc.

Thanks for clearing this confusion up,
Howard
 
If you can look at your paint in a microscope, it will look like Mountains and valleys. Clay pulls the dirt out of the valleys and polishing smoothes off the mountains tops. That is the easies way I can explained it. I hope that helps...


 
YankeeFan said:
Can you guys straighten me out here as I see the process people use is Wash, Clay, Polish......etc. Two things: First, can you define the process know as "polishing". Is it correction or just waxing? Second, if polish means correction then can it remove dirt that clay would normally remove? So the steps would be Wash, Polish......etc.

Thanks for clearing this confusion up,
Howard
Click to expand...

Sometimes stuff will get on your paint and actually bond to it. If you wipe you hand over the surface, you will feel these small bumps. Weekly washing will not remove them. Clay works by "gliding" over the lubricated paint surface and every time it goes over the bonded contaminants, it will pick them up and draw them safely into the clay.

Polishing will romove the bonded contaminants but the particle would probably get trapped under the pad and be ground into the paint surface. Therefore, claying is much safer.
 
sparkie said:
If you can look at your paint in a microscope, it will look like Mountains and valleys. Clay pulls the dirt out of the valleys and polishing smoothes off the mountains tops. That is the easies way I can explained it. I hope that helps...
Click to expand...

Sparkie..great explanation..I've heard similar metaphors for the paint surface alone, but cool to incorporate the clay and polishing with it!
 
YankeeFan said:
Can you guys straighten me out here as I see the process people use is Wash, Clay, Polish......etc. Two things: First, can you define the process know as "polishing". Is it correction or just waxing? Second, if polish means correction then can it remove dirt that clay would normally remove? So the steps would be Wash, Polish......etc.
Click to expand...
While some companies (that will remain unnamed to protect the innocent, me specifically) define "polishing" as "whatever makes it looking shiny, including oils and waxes" majority of companies and individuals when they say "polishing" mean "polishing it out". In other words "paint correction".

It is my understanding purpose of claying is not to remove "dirt from valleys" (when you think about it how it could when it will glide over the hills?). It is my understanding that is what the paint cleaners and chemical decontamination are for. It is my understanding purpose of claying is to remove bonded contaminants. Majority of them will not get removed by polishing. Parts that do get removed will "contaminate" the pad and get ground down into paint making things worse. Rest of it will stay still bonded to surface, pad will just go over it. This is easy to test, just leave car outside for several days and then try it. I used to ask myself same question. But once I tried it answer was obvious. Since then I do not skip claying as it can not be skipped.

In other, much shorter, words answer is: No :)
 
Bert31 said:
it will pick them up and draw them safely into the clay.
Click to expand...

i dont really care what anybody says, ive clayed enough times to know its not all that safe. Yes it removes the contaminates but it just doesnt magically get pushed into the clay, its sticks to it, goes in a little and gets dragged across the surface i.e scratches the car, thats why i stopped claying for a while, even if you used good clay and lube it up good and blah blah blah it still happens, sometimes i can even hear it. It really matters what the clay is picking up tho, if its pollen, thats not so much of a problem, rail dust and small embedded dust particals are really bad. I dont care how many times you fold the clay, it still happens. But i still clay because, honestly theres really no better way ive seen. Im not saying claying will destroy paint or put swirls in, but yes it does scratch the car. Not to the point where it is really noticeable, but it does, scratches down a few microns, enough to see it under good light. remember you wont she swirling, just a few st right light scratches. Im not saying claying is really bad and dont do it, really i think it is the only real way to remove bonded contaminants effectively. Im sure plenty will want to argue this, but its my 2 cents.
 
Okay,

Clay picks up stubborn MICRO dirt that gets stuck in the pores of the paint.

Polishing, is the act of WEARING DOWN the unevenness in the paint and smoothening out rough edges and lines....kinda like this guy here.:buffing::buffing:

It's the same when they polish your teeth at the dentist, except the main difference is that a CAR doesn't grow back layers of paint like your teeth grow back enamel.
 
Polishing and Detailer’s clay are both abrasive type products.

 
Thejoyofdriving said:
i dont really care what anybody says, ive clayed enough times to know its not all that safe. Yes it removes the contaminates but it just doesnt magically get pushed into the clay, its sticks to it, goes in a little and gets dragged across the surface i.e scratches the car, thats why i stopped claying for a while, even if you used good clay and lube it up good and blah blah blah it still happens, sometimes i can even hear it. It really matters what the clay is picking up tho, if its pollen, thats not so much of a problem, rail dust and small embedded dust particals are really bad. I dont care how many times you fold the clay, it still happens. But i still clay because, honestly theres really no better way ive seen. Im not saying claying will destroy paint or put swirls in, but yes it does scratch the car. Not to the point where it is really noticeable, but it does, scratches down a few microns, enough to see it under good light. remember you wont she swirling, just a few st right light scratches. Im not saying claying is really bad and dont do it, really i think it is the only real way to remove bonded contaminants effectively. Im sure plenty will want to argue this, but its my 2 cents.
Click to expand...

I have never had this happen in all the times I have clayed with a fine clay. I have had medium clay marr but I only use medium clay when I am going to polish next.
 
Thejoyofdriving said:
i dont really care what anybody says, ive clayed enough times to know its not all that safe. Yes it removes the contaminates but it just doesnt magically get pushed into the clay, its sticks to it, goes in a little and gets dragged across the surface i.e scratches the car, thats why i stopped claying for a while, even if you used good clay and lube it up good and blah blah blah it still happens, sometimes i can even hear it. It really matters what the clay is picking up tho, if its pollen, thats not so much of a problem, rail dust and small embedded dust particals are really bad. I dont care how many times you fold the clay, it still happens. But i still clay because, honestly theres really no better way ive seen. Im not saying claying will destroy paint or put swirls in, but yes it does scratch the car. Not to the point where it is really noticeable, but it does, scratches down a few microns, enough to see it under good light. remember you wont she swirling, just a few st right light scratches. Im not saying claying is really bad and dont do it, really i think it is the only real way to remove bonded contaminants effectively. Im sure plenty will want to argue this, but its my 2 cents.
Click to expand...
This goes against many years of experience of thousands of the others out there, doesn't it? Without being there watching you work it is impossible to know what is going on, or even guess, so I might be way off if I wonder is scratching when claying to a point of hearing it indicator of car not being washed completely beforehand.
 
ZoranC said:
This goes against many years of experience of thousands of the others out there, doesn't it? Without being there watching you work it is impossible to know what is going on, or even guess, so I might be way off if I wonder is scratching when claying to a point of hearing it indicator of car not being washed completely beforehand.
Click to expand...

You may have a point. I always wondered if I was being anal when I wash my car TWICE before claying. I always looked at the second wash as cheap and easy insurance against rubbing dirt particles into the paint that were missed on the first washing. Maybe I am doing more good doing the second wash than I thought.
 
Bert31 said:
You may have a point. I always wondered if I was being anal when I wash my car TWICE before claying. I always looked at the second wash as cheap and easy insurance against rubbing dirt particles into the paint that were missed on the first washing. Maybe I am doing more good doing the second wash than I thought.
Click to expand...
Doing second wash is good. Completely changing the wash media used (mitt, sponge, whatever, ...) from panel to panel, not just rinsing it, is even better.
 
ZoranC said:
This goes against many years of experience of thousands of the others out there, doesn't it? Without being there watching you work it is impossible to know what is going on, or even guess, so I might be way off if I wonder is scratching when claying to a point of hearing it indicator of car not being washed completely beforehand.
Click to expand...

I doubt it, i do a IPA wipe down before i clay, and its always squeaky clean. I have had this happen with every type of clay, and i only use ultra fine clays like pinns ultra poly clay. Now again im not saying the pannel is filled with scratches that werent there before and its unfix able. Like i said the particals are way to small to cause any real harm, but it still happens. Remember im talking on a micron scale here. When i say i can hear it i mean you really have to be listening in a quite environment, you dont just hear what sounds like you are sanding the car. All I know is that it happens for a fact, logically it makes sense that if you are rubbing a piece of clay over the surface that it is going to pick things up and rub them into the paint. Even with fine clay good lube and every other thing you could want. You cant get around the physics of it. Also when i hear the sound i always check the clay, and most of the time the culprit is so small its very hard to see, if even possible depending on the clay color.
 
Claying is an abrasive process, no doubt about it. It all depends on the condition of the vehicle before hand. A clean surface and plenty of lube will reduce visibility of the marring as mentioned above. An acid or decontamination wash are alternatives to claying... Claying is always beneficial, IMO. On vehicles that I maintain all year, claying 2x a year is necessary but I can only tell a difference when I am laying a coat of wax, I can feel the contamination / drag on the applicator.
 
Thank God it's a free country so I will keep on claying.

(Note to self: More time claying, less time posting talking logic)
 
Last edited:
ZoranC said:
Thank God it's a free country so I will keep on claying.

(Note to self: More time claying, less time posting talking logic)
Click to expand...

If you look back at my post you will see many times, by no means am i saying dont clay, its bad. I clay too, if there was a better way i would use it. As far as the decontamination washes i dont see how they could be as effective as claying. As far as abrasiveness goes, some clays have added abrasives in them which marrs the paint, but fine clays like pinn. ultra poly are not abrasive them selfs.
 
"As far as the decontamination washes i dont see how they could be as effective as claying".

Acid neutralizing wash - I would strongly recommend an acid neutralizing wash followed by a corrosion inhibitor on an annual or semi-annual basis. You will find that a proper acid neutralizing wash opens the paint fissures (pores) and will release most of the imbedded ferrous oxide deposits and the remainder comes off very easily by clay encapsulation. These systems will produce a better finish on the paint surface than is possible with detailer’s clay alone and is also the only solution that addresses acid rain, industrial pollutants, and tree sap etching as well as other polyurethane clear coat concerns

A three step neutralization and wash system comprises; (a) Acid Neutralizer (b) Alkaline Neutralizer (use in conjunction with detailer’s clay) and (c) a pH 7.0 Surface Conditioner, which safely removes both surface and subsurface contamination (i.e. rust) that collects on a painted finish which includes, industrial fallout (IFO), rail dust, acid rain, hard water spots, road tar, bird excrement, waxes/silicones, oxidation, adhesive residue, road grime and rust stains introduced via road salt, ferrous metal deposits. Auto International -
 
Last edited:
TOGWT said:
"As far as the decontamination washes i dont see how they could be as effective as claying".

Acid neutralizing wash - I would strongly recommend an acid neutralizing wash followed by a corrosion inhibitor on an annual or semi-annual basis. You will find that a proper acid neutralizing wash opens the paint fissures (pores) and will release most of the imbedded ferrous oxide deposits and the remainder comes off very easily by clay encapsulation. These systems will produce a better finish on the paint surface than is possible with detailer’s clay alone and is also the only solution that addresses acid rain, industrial pollutants, and tree sap etching as well as other polyurethane clear coat concerns

A three step neutralization and wash system comprises; (a) Acid Neutralizer (b) Alkaline Neutralizer (use in conjunction with detailer’s clay) and (c) a pH 7.0 Surface Conditioner, which safely removes both surface and subsurface contamination (i.e. rust) that collects on a painted finish which includes, industrial fallout (IFO), rail dust, acid rain, hard water spots, road tar, bird excrement, waxes/silicones, oxidation, adhesive residue, road grime and rust stains introduced via road salt, ferrous metal deposits. Auto International -
Click to expand...

What brands of Acid Neutralizer, Alkaline Neutralizer and Surface Conditioners/Corrosion Inhibitor do you like?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top