Clear coating will it fade away??

BrianMcLeod

New member
May 10, 2013
812
0
I was thinking if we compound and polish our car isn't the compounding taking some of the clear coat off? If so and I think it is won't some time we will get down to the base/ color or paint? Just wondering because I know people go through their cars every so often thanks for the answers
 
I was thinking if we compound and polish our car isn't the compounding taking some of the clear coat off? If so and I think it is won't some time we will get down to the base/ color or paint? Just wondering because I know people go through their cars every so often thanks for the answers

yes it's takeing clear coat away when compounding, and yeah you could get down to base color or the metal( point of no return) but that's why it's key to take paint measurement and use the least aggressive method and if some defects don't come out leave it be
 
From my understanding, even the most aggressive cutting products with the most aggressive pad still only reduces a very minor amount of paint. Unless you are "compounding" very frequently, i don't believe you need to worry about reducing your clear layer over the life of the vehicle. But that is not to say that given an older vehicle with a thin clear coat left resulting from age and being exposed to the elements for many years you don't need to be careful. Plus with the level of detailing many here practice, we don't need to cut that aggressively too frequently to correct.

I will also add that i believe the machine used matters to a certain extent. My random orbital can't get down to the depths my circular can.

In summary i would say that with newer paint you don't need to worry about diminishing the clear layer thickness over the life of the vehicle.
 
And i'll wholeheartedly agree with jamesboyy...you should only go with the least aggressive approach to meet your needs.
 
Clear-coat paints...just like pigmented paints...are prone to oxidation.
But since the clear-coat has no color, it doesn't "fade away" or lose brightness, in the usual sense.
However, and depending on the environment to which the car is exposed, the clear-coat paint can become dull-looking.
This dulling can occur slowly over time.

You can safeguard against this by parking the vehicle away from the sun’s heat and ultraviolet radiation as much as possible;
remove, ASAP, contaminants such as acid rain, rain dust, airborne pollutants, bird droppings, bug splatter and industrial fallout...all of which can cause reduction of clear-coat paints' reflective quality and gloss: the clear-coat paint will look dull, faded as it were.
This...And practice safe washing/drying methods to help reduce scratches, swirls, and the like.

Applying a paint sealer such as Waxes, Sealants, and Coatings will go along way in keeping contaminants at bay.

The less a person has to abrade clear-coat paint with polishes and compounds...the thicker it will remain to perform one of its main duties:
Protect the underlying color-coat.


Bob
 
Anecdotally I would have to assume that repeated machining can make a serious dent in your clear coat. At the very least, look how often you find people 'striking through' when they do not know what they are doing. This wouldn't happen if machining wasn't removing noteworthy amounts of paint.

In the products we sell, we try to encourage people not to be forever machining. There is no question that a 100% perfect finish needs it but it is just absurd for every day using vehicles. With the correct choice of appearance enhancement products and moderate correction, you can get an amazing look without leaving your vehicle needing a respray in 5 years.
 
Yes, sort of, especially ff not maintained..

All paints oxidize which over time will make the finish appear dull and lifeless. Cleaning it on a regular basis then apply a protectant will keep it looking new for years to come. The protectants we apply act as a sacrificial barrier against washings, foul weather, and it's #1 nemesis....the sun..

A little more on paint thickness.

Automotive Paint

Over the years automotive manufactures have been on a quest to lower manufacturing cost and just one of those areas is paint. By doing so, these improvements translate directly to their bottom line as profits.

The actual film thickness of paint is what I call SCARY THIN, meaning it doesn’t take much effort to accidentally sand or compound through a layer. A layer of paint is so thin today it’s measured in microns rather than thousands of an inch.


Corrosion


How many of you can remember the days when a panel on a brand new car would show sighs of rust or corrosion in the first 2 years? You don’t have to go that far back because this was pretty much the norm in the 70’s and 80’s.

To combat this, car manufactures teamed up with paint suppliers like DuPont to develop coatings and processes to greatly reduce or eliminate corrosion and rust through.


Microns


Microns are typically associated with either of the two following symbols; µ or µm

Just how big or small is a micron? 0.001mm, or about 0.000039in

To illustrate this lets put this in perspective by comparing a known and relate it to microns. On average, a human hair is about 100 microns or 100µm.

1µ = 0.00003937in
10µ = 0.0003937in
100µ = 0.003937in

Now that we know how think a human hair is, see how it compares to the paint film thickness on most cars today....It's thicker than any individual coating applied and might be equal to all of the coating thicknesses combined! :eek:


Paint Application

Automotive paint is applied in layers and each one is designed to to work with out bond to the previous later. Today protective coating and paint layers can total 5 or more and at varying thicknesses. The photo below illustrates not only the coating but the average film thickness....

Layer03.jpg



  1. Phosphate - 1µ or 0.00003937in
  2. Electrocoat or E-Coat - 25µ or 0.0009843in
  3. Primer - 25µ or 0.0009843in
  4. Base or Color Coat - 20µ or 0.0007874in
  5. Clear Coat - 50µ = 0.001969in

Phosphate

Phosphate coatings offer excellent corrosion resistance. These coatings are usually applied to carbon steel, low-alloy steel, and cast iron. Phosphate coatings are most often applied by either spraying or immersing the substrate into a solution of dilute phosphoric acid combined with other chemicals that assist in the coating process.


Electrocoat or E-Coat


An unfinished panel is immersed in a bath containing the electrophoretic paint emulsion, and then an electric current is passed through both the product and the emulsion. The paint particles that are in contact with the product adhere to the surface, building up an electrically insulating layer thus improving the corrosion resistance of the metal..

If you look hard enough on You-Tube I'm sure you'll find a factory video showing the frame and body of a car being submerged in a bath to effectively these coating in every nook and cranny.

Primer, base coat and clear coat are pretty self explanatory so I won't go into detail.

Steel Thickness

The thickness of the sheet steel that makes up the majority of cars today has over the years become thinner and thinner. Some of this initiative is related to the overall weight but also fall right in line with lowering costs of raw materials.

What body and paint shops typically see in a single stage paint job.

In this photo you'll see the typical finish layers applied at the factory. Many times though shops uncover damage and additional paint repair that can add several subsequent layers that must be dealt with properly.

Layer02.jpg



This is a great example to illustrate different types of surface defects and their relative size when compared to one another.


Layers.jpg
 
I was thinking if we compound and polish our car isn't the compounding taking some of the clear coat off? If so and I think it is won't some time we will get down to the base/ color or paint? Just wondering because I know people go through their cars every so often thanks for the answers


Couple comments....

If the paint on your car has defects, (swirls & scratches), and you want to remove them, then you really only have two options.

1. Remove a little paint and re-level the surface which acts to make the swirls and scratches visually disappear.

2. Add more paint, as in get a new paint job. Make sure you don't put any new swirls and scratches into the new paint or you'll have two options to remove them.

1. Remove a little paint and re-level the surface which acts to make the swirls and scratches visually disappear.

2. Add more paint, as in get a new paint job. Make sure you don't put any new swirls and scratches into the new paint or you'll have two options to remove them.

1. Remove a little paint and re-level the surface which acts to make the swirls and scratches visually disappear.

2. Add more paint, as in get a new paint job. Make sure you don't put any new swirls and scratches into the new paint or you'll have two options to remove them.


:laughing:



Your questions comes up a lot and here's the deal...

If owning a car with a nice looking finish is important to you, then the practical way to get a nice finish is to compound and polish or if possible, only polish to remove the defects to your satisfaction.

Then here's the key... not do everything you can to avoid putting swirls and scratches back into the paint as this is how you avoid having to polish the paint again.


You can't run your car through a brush style car wash and expect to maintain a nice looking finish. If a person is going to wash their car in this manner they they should forget about having a car with a swirl and scratch-free finish.


:)
 
I guess sealants waxes and coatings act as temporary clear coat that we have to keep on apply and when do you know when to apply more??
 
I guess sealants waxes and coatings act as temporary clear coat that we have to keep on apply and when do you know when to apply more??
These are sacrificial barriers...
And with all contaminate-gathering/paint-being-touched factors being equal:
Each one will have their own sacrificing-rate, resulting in their being diminished over time.

And, then, as far as re-application..
I'll paraphrase a Mr. Phillips saying:
"If you want a vehicle to look like it was just waxed: Then go ahead and wax it".

Bob
 
Can't tell you how many times I compounded my truck since buying it in 1996, new.
More so years ago when I did a lot of hunting, it seemed it always had scratches on it, being a detailer for most of my life I couldn't stand the way it looked so took out the rotary and away I went
Still today it still has plenty of clear coat left just by looking at it.
The gloss is the same as the day I bought it.
Not to mention I use it to test new compounds , polishes, name it. Lol
I never took a reading on the paint however so I couldn't tell you how much I removed over the years.

Taking a guess I'd say I used some aggressive compounds on it 20 times at least and for the most part it was with a rotary and wool pad.

Many years ago I put a scratch on the hood, a branch got it, pretty deep, through the clear but not down the the paint, over the years I've looked at that scratch and just looking at it from a naked eye the scratch seems to be the same and I went over it many times.
 
We all know about clear coat. But, base coat can fade after years of UV exposure. Just remove a roof rack or trim piece of a 10 year old daily driver. You will see the color is more vibrant under the protected area.
 
Couple comments....

If the paint on your car has defects, (swirls & scratches), and you want to remove them, then you really only have two options.

1. Remove a little paint and re-level the surface which acts to make the swirls and scratches visually disappear.

2. Add more paint, as in get a new paint job. Make sure you don't put any new swirls and scratches into the new paint or you'll have two options to remove them.

1. Remove a little paint and re-level the surface which acts to make the swirls and scratches visually disappear.

2. Add more paint, as in get a new paint job. Make sure you don't put any new swirls and scratches into the new paint or you'll have two options to remove them.

1. Remove a little paint and re-level the surface which acts to make the swirls and scratches visually disappear.

2. Add more paint, as in get a new paint job. Make sure you don't put any new swirls and scratches into the new paint or you'll have two options to remove them.


:laughing:

It could be that it has been a long day, but I actually laughed out loud at myself after not catching that I was re-reading the same thing after the second part.
 
I don't remember to much of the discussion over at Meguiar's, but he measured the before and after. Swirled finished to the polished finish.

He then said that if a Mil were 50 sheets of paper. Then all that was removed was about 1 sheet.

Again I don't recall the exact discussion and the numbers might be off but it seemed that very few CC layers were removed.

So it got me thinking, while you are removing CC it is a very minimal amount if done right and from there it is up to one to maintain the finished results.

Just trying to help :)
 
Back
Top