Clear Coats?

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willowcat11

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When asked about how a compound, used with a compounding pad literally affects the clear coat of a car. I'm at a loss of words.

Please forgive me everyone. I'm Ashamed to say, that what I tell clients(mostly family and friends) is that it's clear coat safe, because that is what it says on some products.

But for me, I really don't understand what the reality is of how much clear coat is actually being removed when doing a compound step. And how do you know if you've gone too far(sorry if that sounds stupid).

I'm definitely trying to figure this out in order to become more knowledgeable and confident in the work I do, but also to be well informed and confident in what I am sharing with my clients.

Any help is always greatly appreciated!

Thanks all!



Ray
 
willowcat11 said:
Please forgive me everyone. I'm Ashamed to say, that what I tell clients(mostly family and friends) is that it's clear coat safe, because that is what it says on some products.
Click to expand...

Hey don't be ashamed... I'll tell you what, way back in the day I used to work at Safeway supermarket, when it came time to promote me they decided to throw me into the meat dept. even though I told the boss I wasn't so sure that would be ideal for me as I didn't really know the difference betwen a pork chop and a lamb chop just by lookin at em. Lol. But of course I end up in the meat dept..

During my 1st month or so I would get hit with these crazy questions from customers and most times I would have to grab 1 of the butchers to answer what heck they're asking me about.. 1 day while I was out there stocking the bacon, some little old lady comes and asks me "what part of the pig do baby back ribs come from"? I looked her dead in the eye, and told her "they come from baby pigs"
She totally bought it it too. Heck, so did I! That was my legit answer. Lmao. Later that day I was in the back with the butchers and shared my story with them because I wanted to know the real answer just in case I get asked that again... I swear they must've been laughing all afternoon talkin bout "baby pigs" lol.😃
 
You could say something like this... Imagine your clear coat is made of 100 layers of Saran Wrap laminated together. When you get a scratch or swirl in your paint, it might just go down through the top 7 layers. To fix that defect, the abrasive (compound) essentially removes the clear coat around that scratch so that the entire surface will then be 92 layers thick instead of 100. You're leveling the surrounding clear coat down to the level of the bottom of the scratch.

It's very similar to sanding a wooden table top that has a scratch in it. Moving from compound to polish is analogous to going from 60 grit sandpaper to 800 grit sand paper.

That's a mouthful. Rather than saying all of this to a customer, I think it might be more useful to show them an illustration of a cross section of the base coat + clear coat, with a big "V" that cuts down through the clear but not all the way down to the base coat. I've seen illustrations like this floating around the forum. Maybe someone knows where to find it?
 
willowcat11 said:
When asked about how a compound, used with a compounding pad literally affects the clear coat of a car. I'm at a loss of words.

Please forgive me everyone. I'm Ashamed to say, that what I tell clients(mostly family and friends) is that it's clear coat safe, because that is what it says on some products.

But for me, I really don't understand what the reality is of how much clear coat is actually being removed when doing a compound step. And how do you know if you've gone too far(sorry if that sounds stupid).

I'm definitely trying to figure this out in order to become more knowledgeable and confident in the work I do, but also to be well informed and confident in what I am sharing with my clients.
Click to expand...


I too have never been asked or pressed for details but if I was, I'd keep the answer as high level and brief as possible. Essencially compounds and polishes do the same thing it's just polishes are more refined so they leave more finished appearance. Both remove oxidation and contanminants and level out the surface so swirls and scratches are no longer there or as visible.

I bet there are lot of older folks who just remember the day of tin cans of cleanser like rubbing compounds from the days of single stage paint and chalk like oxidation. Todays products and finishes are nothing like those of decades ago.
 
Compounding today's clearcoats, while relatively harmless when done correctly, should always be performed to remove the least amount of paint so as to level the paint thus removing the imperfections. I've always liked what Harpolith referred to as the "V" cut cross section diagram. The very very few times i have been asked about the affect of cutting or polishing i refer to a diagram of layered substrate, primer, base coat and clearcoat. Having seen several illustrations over the years, i quickly reproduce my own for the customer discussion. My explanation also includes not chasing those "V" cuts too deep to address and explaining how paint is the only fix.

You could then go into various aggression approaches to safely remove imperfections...from compounding to jewelling...and the products and pads used to get flat paint. I am still of the opinion that frequent compounding is NEVER a good thing and more specifically should not be needed with proper care. I ALWAYS educate those few customers who do ask these specifics how marring, scratches and paint imperfections get there in the first place.

Plus, i always have my '07 BMW black paint nearby to show how flat, shiny paint should look. Original paint with plenty of clear left after 9 years of proper care.

Ya know, it may be worth doing up a better diagram on the computin' device, printing it out and laminating a good illustration!
 
•The largest sum total of compounds/polishes
that have been manufactured over the last 30+
years have been "Clear Coat Safe".

-Some manufacturers will have their compounds
and polishes labeled with this pronouncement;
perhaps it gives them a sense of some kind of
marketing advantage over their competitors.


•Out of curiosity...
-Did you ever go to the junk yard,
or body shop, and pick up any
hoods...(or other body panels)...
upon which to practice?



Bob
 
Eldorado2k said:
Hey don't be ashamed... I'll tell you what, way back in the day I used to work at Safeway supermarket, when it came time to promote me they decided to throw me into the meat dept. even though I told the boss I wasn't so sure that would be ideal for me as I didn't really know the difference betwen a pork chop and a lamb chop just by lookin at em. Lol. But of course I end up in the meat dept..

During my 1st month or so I would get hit with these crazy questions from customers and most times I would have to grab 1 of the butchers to answer what heck they're asking me about.. 1 day while I was out there stocking the bacon, some little old lady comes and asks me "what part of the pig do baby back ribs come from"? I looked her dead in the eye, and told her "they come from baby pigs"
She totally bought it it too. Heck, so did I! That was my legit answer. Lmao. Later that day I was in the back with the butchers and shared my story with them because I wanted to know the real answer just in case I get asked that again... I swear they must've been laughing all afternoon talkin bout "baby pigs" lol.��
Click to expand...

LOL! Baby Pigs, that is Awesome! She was left with no choice, but to accept that answer and leave. I love it!
 
Harpolith, pdqgp, and Puckman, thank you greatly for your illustrations, input and, help. Your replies are helping me grow with a better understanding about the details in detailing.
 
FUNX650 said:
•The largest sum total of compounds/polishes
that have been manufactured over the last 30+
years have been "Clear Coat Safe".

-Some manufacturers will have their compounds
and polishes labeled with this pronouncement;
perhaps it gives them a sense of some kind of
marketing advantage over their competitors.


•Out of curiosity...
-Did you ever go to the junk yard,
or body shop, and pick up any
hoods...(or other body panels)...
upon which to practice?



Bob
Click to expand...

Holy Cow Bob! Great Memory! I forgot all about that. I need to go down to the junk yard anyway to pick some stuff up. Thanks for the reminder!
 
You need to read everything you can on how cars are painted. Secondly get a paint gauge, if you are compounding modern cars without one you are living dangerously! Especially if you do any Asian cars with 2.5-3.0 mils total! It is now recommended to only remove .3 mils over the life of the car to protect any uv protection and paint warranty. Look up Mike's article about how thin clear is.
 
The simple answer to your question is you are using a product which contains oils, lubricants, (some might have cleansers, waxes and sealants) with sub-micro abrasives, which are clear-coat safe, to abrade the surface in order to remove micro-marring and scratches from the clear-coat, leaving nothing but smoothness and glossy paint.
 
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