"Clogging" pores in paint = triggering oxidation!?

[Don M]

I am on a few detailing pages on FarceBook and I was explaining to someone the 3-step process I recently used on my Camaro and the wife's Escape that have yielded good results and was advised by someone else that by doing this it will "clog" the pores of the paint and CAUSE/trigger oxidation (at least in Florida, where the guy is from). He did mention that this applied to Florida's environment, and may not apply to other environments,

I have NEVER heard that before in the 40 years I have been into detailing - and to be honest, it makes no sense to me.

The process is pretty basic. Using 3 Turtle Wax, Hybrid Solutions products (on a car already in 'good' condition), I start with the Ceramic Polish & Wax, using the mild abrasives to 'clean up' the paint, really rubbing it in with the polisher, to remove old waxes/sealants and to leave a light coat of protection (I don't wait the recommended 24 hours for the protection element to cure though before moving on). Next, I apply a light coat of Ceramic/Graphene Paste Wax (by polisher). The C/G Paste DOES NOT mention a 'cure time.' so I move straight to the final step, a coat of Graphene Flex Wax (by hand). THEN I wait the recommended cure time.

Maintenance of this "system" is a good wash (after the proper cure time has been observed), followed by an application of Hybrid Solutions Pure Shine-Graphene Misting Detailer (awesome stuff BTW, EXTREMELY slick).

I was floored when this guy said that a multi-step like that will clog the pores of the paint and accelerate oxidation, and that a single, light layer of a spray sealant is best!?!?!?

I was very polite in my response, saying I had never heard of that before. I made my response sound like I was curious, not bashing, and asked him to explain - saying that ALL waxes/sealants fill or cover the pores of the paint, effectively "sealing them off" from the outside world, so how would a multi-step 'clog' them and how would that promote oxidation?

It's been two days, and so far ... crickets ... not a word on why he believes multi-steps are bad.

I thought it was interesting enough to post to this group (even though *I* don't believe it) to see what everyone else's opinion is.

So what do you all think?

 

[Bill D]

Im in FL and it sounds like BS to me. People have funny beliefs about the detailing process. Just goes to show…

 

[Big DaveBig Dave is verified member.]

I've never heard this before, I thought it was unprotected paint that oxidised. In saying that, I've seen vehicles that were supposedly ceramic coated look like they were oxidising, due to no maintenance washing, because some people think ceramic coating means no more car washing. I've never confirmed whether there was any ceramic coating left, when they ask me to look at their paint and tell me it's ceramic coated, I tell them honestly, I don't know anything about them.

I think maybe the silence you're getting now could be because, while he honestly believed what he told you, he's tried to do some research to confirm what he's been saying, and can't find anything to back what he's been saying. I tried, but couldn't find anything either.

I know paint protected with multiple layers can clog up, with all sorts of contaminants, but effective washing should remove those contaminants, with no oxidation concerns.

I'll stand corrected if someone can show me the science that proves multiple layers of protection promotes oxidation.

Sent from my motorola edge 20 fusion using Tapatalk

 

[Desertnate]

The clogging of any "pores" with multiple layers doesn't make any sense. If anything was going to get clogged, it would happen with the first layer. Your first layer isn't porous or permeable. After that you're simply layering on top of a base coat which has already sealed everything.

Continually doing multiple layers of waxes and sealants for years on end may lead to a build up that starts to look bad, but that has nothing to do with clogging. It's simply a build-up.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

I thought it was interesting enough to post to this group (even though *I* don't believe it) to see what everyone else's opinion is.

So what do you all think?

Im in FL and it sounds like BS to me. People have funny beliefs about the detailing process. Just goes to show…

Honestly Don, I understand why you posted this, but it's really pointless, and you both are being too polite. One of the reasons that forums like this are dead, is because if not the point, then the result is out of step with where people are today. I know that sounds obtuse, but let me try to explain (I'll try and condense it a bit).

Recently over on the Optimum forum, some guy came on and said he was a Kozak user, and that he had a car that he used that on for YEARS, and never had any swirls. Now he got a new car and he's been using some Optimum product for 6 months and has swirls, and was asking why the Optimum product was so bad, etc. Well not really, but he was miffed it was so much worse than Kozak cloths. His technique was not...well...not a 'Geek approved one. He argued, I tried to explain that he was talking to a bunch of people that use processes/techniques that have been honed for decades through collaboration, experimentation, and consensus on best practices in a worldwide community of thousands of detailers across multiple forums.

And that informs stuff that I've said here recently, that product development has been driven in leaps and bounds in the last 20 year through forums like this one, blah blah blah. So the Kozak guy argued some more, then disappeared, like your clogged pore guy. Because he didn't come to the forum to learn, he came there to get his pre-existing beliefs and biases affirmed, which is where we are in the world today. (not here)

 

[Bill D]

Kozak cloths?I use one to dust around the house

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Kozak cloths?I use one to dust around the house

What the heck, you mean my microfibers are no good for that? I was looking for something a couple weeks ago, and found a FEW STORAGE BINS full of brand new microfibers that I forgot I had...but maybe I need some Kozak cloths, too.

PS I heard that Kozak cloths will clog the pores in my furniture and cause my horizontal surfaces to become cluttered with stuff I don't need...oh wait, that already happened.

 

[Don M]

\
Continually doing multiple layers of waxes and sealants for years on end may lead to a build up that starts to look bad, but that has nothing to do with clogging. It's simply a build-up.

Which is why twice a year (usually in the Spring and Fall), I will use a mild abrasive (such as the Ceramic Polish & Wax or a straight, light polish) to remove all the "old" waxes / sealants and start fresh.

.

 

[Don M]

Honestly Don, I understand why you posted this, but it's really pointless, and you both are being too polite. One of the reasons that forums like this are dead, is because if not the point, then the result is out of step with where people are today. I know that sounds obtuse, but let me try to explain (I'll try and condense it a bit).

Recently over on the Optimum forum, some guy came on and said he was a Kozak user, and that he had a car that he used that on for YEARS, and never had any swirls. Now he got a new car and he's been using some Optimum product for 6 months and has swirls, and was asking why the Optimum product was so bad, etc. Well not really, but he was miffed it was so much worse than Kozak cloths. His technique was not...well...not a 'Geek approved one. He argued, I tried to explain that he was talking to a bunch of people that use processes/techniques that have been honed for decades through collaboration, experimentation, and consensus on best practices in a worldwide community of thousands of detailers across multiple forums.

And that informs stuff that I've said here recently, that product development has been driven in leaps and bounds in the last 20 year through forums like this one, blah blah blah. So the Kozak guy argued some more, then disappeared, like your clogged pore guy. Because he didn't come to the forum to learn, he came there to get his pre-existing beliefs and biases affirmed, which is where we are in the world today. (not here)

My grandfather had a Kozak MANY years ago, before I had even thought of waxing a car (before I was legal to drive even), but even back then, he had stopped using it and began using cleaner-waxes ... this was before clear coat paint was even thought of.

It reminds me of the guy who owned the detail shop I worked at. He was SO STUCK on the processes for SINGLE STAGE paint, he wouldn't even talk or think about if the same processes were appropriate for clear coated cars. I quit when his reliance on his overly aggressive ("Tried and True" methods) started burning several brand new cars that had base coat/clear coat paint. He was ALSO the type to blame ME or his other detailer for these "mishaps," and I wanted no part of HIS screw ups.

I joined this forum (and others) to LEARN, because I didn't KNOW the right way. I THINK I've learned enough to recognize B.S. and I wanted to share a sample of the misinformation that's still out there.

 

[Bill D]

"Clogging" pores in paint = triggering oxidation!?

I would say a three step chemical decon wash would do the same, no?

Which is why twice a year (usually in the Spring and Fall), I will use a mild abrasive (such as the Ceramic Polish & Wax or a straight, light polish) to remove all the "old" waxes / sealants and start fresh.

.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

It reminds me of the guy who owned the detail shop I worked at. He was SO STUCK on the processes for SINGLE STAGE paint, he wouldn't even talk or think about if the same processes were appropriate for clear coated cars.

That reminds me of the earnest young man who graduated high school, and went to work at a dealer in the detail department, and was shown how to do things by the senior guy there who had worked there for 15 years. He found the forum, and found the info at the forum to be at odds with what his "boss" was telling him to do. I don't remember if it was here, or Autopia, or TID, or what, but he seemed genuinely confused as to how someone with 15 years experience could be so ill-informed on basic agreed-on forum detailing practices; I believe it was Todd Helme who told him not to look at it as 15 years experience, but that he was probably taught by someone else for 2 weeks, and he had just been putting his 2 weeks of training into practice for 15 years. I believe Todd put it a bit more eloquently than I just did.