Clown(s)...you decide

[Klasse Act]

I've been here since February of 2012. In that time I've learned most of the abbreviations but maybe a smarter person can explain APC to me. See I thought it stood for All...Purpose...Cleaner. If I'm right, doesn't ALL mean EVERYTHING

Maybe you guys can clear this up for me, thanks️

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[Eldorado2k]

He says he used to do auction cars that were Caked in who knows what…

That implies that he would know what an actual dirty steering wheel is like to clean.

However just before that he said he’s never met a steering wheel that needed APC..

So which 1 is it, dude? Have you encountered dirty steering wheels or not? Because real dirty steering wheels love them some APC, unless DIY APC sucks? I dunno, I’ve never used it and probably won’t ever use it since it costs several times what Meguiars APC costs and I’m perfectly happy with Megs and highly doubt the DIY APC could be any better or even equal to the Megs.

But as far as APC not meant to be used to clean steering wheels? Maybe it’s an issue with DIY APC? The one I use works fantastic.

If DIY APC shouldn’t be used on steering wheels then it shouldn’t be used to clean leather seats, and if it shouldn’t be used on leather seats than what the heck can it be used on?

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Since that seems to be just a small part of a longer video, perhaps there was some issue with dilution rate that someone had using APC on a steering wheel that resulted in an uneven appearance.

I still sometimes will use Woolite on steering wheels, I have a bottle mixed up from back when that's what the cool kids were using on interiors. Didn't Cadillac/GM used to recommend that in the owner's manual, Eldo?

 

[Klasse Act]

Been using Optimum Power Clean aka Alien Kleen since joining AG 13 years ago, never been without it, even mixed in Bilt-Hamber APC and I've NEVER had an issue, usually mix them @3:1 or 4:1, no problems

Maybe he's trying to move the other products, I mean I have and use Clean and Protect on my Alcantara pieces in my car and it does work great

Guys a clown

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[Eldorado2k]

I still sometimes will use Woolite on steering wheels, I have a bottle mixed up from back when that's what the cool kids were using on interiors. Didn't Cadillac/GM used to recommend that in the owner's manual, Eldo?

Yes.

 

[Eldorado2k]

Been using Optimum Power Clean aka Alien Kleen since joining AG 13 years ago, never been without it, even mixed in Bilt-Hamber APC and I've NEVER had an issue, usually mix them @3:1 or 4:1, no problems

Maybe he's trying to move the other products, I mean I have and use Clean and Protect on my Alcantara pieces in my car and it does work great

Guys a clown

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I’ve been meaning to rip him a new one regarding several detailing sins he committed in one of their recent vids. I just haven’t had time to do so, but iirc it’s sort of egregious what he did in that video and I’d like to hear him explain it since he told me he “doesn’t purposely damage paint” or whatever his quote was regarding why he won’t prove a pressure washer can cause swirls… [won’t prove it, but he sure likes to claim it]

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Been using Optimum Power Clean aka Alien Kleen since joining AG 13 years ago, never been without it, even mixed in Bilt-Hamber APC and I've NEVER had an issue, usually mix them @3:1 or 4:1, no problems

OPC is a great product, but since we're on this topic, I remember someone spraying OPC on a really dirty leather seat, and having it run down and leave clean streaks...that they then couldn't clean up to an even appearance. I think it may have been the back of the seat. I know that sounds impossible, but that's the way I remember it. Not sure what forum that was on.

Maybe he's trying to move the other products, I mean I have and use Clean and Protect on my Alcantara pieces in my car and it does work great

I think probably that's the answer.

 

[Desertnate]

I still sometimes will use Woolite on steering wheels, I have a bottle mixed up from back when that's what the cool kids were using on interiors. Didn't Cadillac/GM used to recommend that in the owner's manual, Eldo?

It was mentioned in the owner's manual of my wife's 2012 Toyota Highlander with leather interior. They didn't call it out by name, but the description of the product it stated to use would only take you one place.

I haven't watched the video, but a properly diluted APC is the only way to go for stubborn grime regardless of the surface. Poorboy's World APC diluted to thier preferred ratio for general interior cleaning is great for really nasty steering wheels and I've never had any issues regardless of whether the wheel is leather or vinyl of some sort. If it's leather I do fallow up with a good cleaner/conditioner to rejuvenate the surface.

 

[Eldorado2k]

I haven't watched the video

It’s a 30 second short. Watch it.

 

[Klasse Act]

I wonder if that particular APC was properly diluted

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[Optimus Grime]

Since that seems to be just a small part of a longer video, perhaps there was some issue with dilution rate that someone had using APC on a steering wheel that resulted in an uneven appearance.

I still sometimes will use Woolite on steering wheels, I have a bottle mixed up from back when that's what the cool kids were using on interiors. Didn't Cadillac/GM used to recommend that in the owner's manual, Eldo?

I’ve seen the entire video and he did state earlier that All Clean (an APC) can be used on the interior as a last resort, preferably at a dilution ratio of 30:1. A lot of his tips would be easier to swallow if he would just add in the phrase, “unless necessary.”

I’ve heard him multiple times mention that professional detailers shouldn’t have soap in their arsenal and should rely on RW for efficiency. That’s somewhat true but anyone that details professionally knows that you’re going to encounter a vehicle that no amount of rinseless will make a dent in the filth and grime. You’ll need something like Touch-Less and a pressure washer just to start cutting through years of build-up. If he had just said, use a RW instead of soap unless necessary I’d have no problem. I’ve actually cut my exterior detailing time by about 25% by doing hybrid RW instead of pulling out the foam cannon. It’s the same for interiors. Most won’t need anything stronger than something like Xpress Interior Cleaner but you’re gonna get that vehicle that needs something stronger like an APC and probably a good bit of steam along with it to melt away years of gunk.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

I don't watch much of Yvan and Hawkman, so I don't know what to say. I think we've had this conversation before, but I was disappointed when Yvan left OPT after years of touting "Optimum Synergy"...and then immediately began hawking any and every product under the sun. As someone stated in a book a few years ago, if you suddenly throw your "deeply held beliefs" out the window, then they probably weren't deeply held.

 

[dwaleke]

I avoid a lot of DIY detail content myself lately. From everything else I’ve seen you really want to avoid using high alkaline cleaners on leather (which includes the steering wheel). Stick to something in the pH range between 6-8.


Good Facebook post on leather.

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CONTENT CREATORS SHOWING YOU THAT THEY HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT LEATHER...



I'm sure all of you have seen those videos in which someone tries to demonstrate how his or her methods of and products for "cleaning" a leather steering work really well, by showing you how much "dirt" they pull off whilst cleaning it.



The issue is that as soon as you spend about 5 minutes informing you about automotive leather, you will know that 99.9% of all automotive leather is coated leather, meaning the actual hide is coated with a primer, base coat, and top coat. The top coat is usually transparent and the base coat is the layer that gives the leather its colour.



So, when you clean a black leather steering wheel and your cleaning tool or towel is showing deep black stuff, then this is not dirt. In fact, in one of the images below you can clearly see the difference between brown-ish dirt and the black stuff. This black stuff is either the leather's base coat or leather dye from a bad leather repair job.



So, unless the car you're cleaning is driven by a coal mine worker, the black stuff you remove from a leather steering wheel is not dirt, it is the leather's base coat - which is the equivalent to the base layer of your car's paint job. Damaged or removed top coat would be the equivalent to damaged or removed clear coat, which means no "protector" or "conditioner" in this world and no "dye" will make this good, only a proper leather repair job in which you rebuild the whole OEM leather coatings will - much like a respray on the exterior of a car.



There's actually a really simple way of knowing whether what you clean off a leather steering wheel is dirt or the leather's base coat: repeat the cleaning cycle. If everytime you repeat the cleaning cycle there's more black stuff coming off, then you know you're not dealing with dirt...



We as consumers need to start being more critical, spread knowledge and hold content creators accountable for spreading wrong information, i.e. if those information can lead people to destroy parts of their cars.



If you want to know how to safely clean leather, here's the short version:

1. Use a vacuum first

2. Don’t use too much liquid (cleaners) and don‘t let fluids soak into the leather, foam up your cleaning liquid and apply it into your chosen cleaning tool

3. Use dedicated leather cleaners as close to pH neutral as possible - not all leather cleaners are created equally, ideally don‘t use anything above pH 8 and below pH 6

4. Don’t use APCs, degreasers, or saddle soap

5. Don‘t use IPAs or cleaners with solvents

6. Primarily use cotton towels, not microfibre ones (old t-shirts or bed sheets are ok)

7. Don’t use steam

8. Don‘t use magic erasers

9. Don‘t use drill brushes

10. Use non-abrasive leather cleaning foam sponges instead of scrub pads or brushes

 

[Eldorado2k]

Damaged or removed top coat would be the equivalent to damaged or removed clear coat, which means no "protector" or "conditioner" in this world and no "dye" will make this good, only a proper leather repair job in which you rebuild the whole OEM leather coatings will - much like a respray on the exterior of a car.

For years now many people in the detailing world who’s words are recognized as law have preached that leather conditioner is effective, especially in cases where the top layer of protective coating on the leather has been compromised, and it is then where leather conditioner can truly reach the leather and do it’s conditioning.

The reason they were forced into creating that as sort of the standard law was due to so much pushback from the people who swear up & down to this day that nothing, and certainly not leather conditioner can penetrate through that top layer of coating that’s applied at the factory when the cars are built new.

But according to you that would leave absolutely no chance at all for a leather conditioner to ever provide a benefit which btw I personally disagree with. As a matter of fact I just got done applying Meguiars leather conditioner onto the premium leather seats and across all the interior of a Nissan Titan with only 6,000 miles on it and have no regrets.

One day the nerds who actually develop and set the standard for the way modern day automotive leather will finally come out of their shell and provide us with the real deal nitty gritty on what the heck actually works or not and the reasons why and only then will we truly be able to find out who was right & wrong for all these years.

1 thing I know for certain is that like it or not, leather conditioner provides a definitive look onto automotive leather that many people like, otherwise it wouldn’t be a product that nearly every detailing company produces at least 1 example of in their line of products.

 

[DFB]

I avoid a lot of DIY detail content myself lately. From everything else I’ve seen you really want to avoid using high alkaline cleaners on leather (which includes the steering wheel). Stick to something in the pH range between 6-8.


Good Facebook post on leather.

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.

www.facebook.com

CONTENT CREATORS SHOWING YOU THAT THEY HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT LEATHER...



I'm sure all of you have seen those videos in which someone tries to demonstrate how his or her methods of and products for "cleaning" a leather steering work really well, by showing you how much "dirt" they pull off whilst cleaning it.



The issue is that as soon as you spend about 5 minutes informing you about automotive leather, you will know that 99.9% of all automotive leather is coated leather, meaning the actual hide is coated with a primer, base coat, and top coat. The top coat is usually transparent and the base coat is the layer that gives the leather its colour.



So, when you clean a black leather steering wheel and your cleaning tool or towel is showing deep black stuff, then this is not dirt. In fact, in one of the images below you can clearly see the difference between brown-ish dirt and the black stuff. This black stuff is either the leather's base coat or leather dye from a bad leather repair job.



So, unless the car you're cleaning is driven by a coal mine worker, the black stuff you remove from a leather steering wheel is not dirt, it is the leather's base coat - which is the equivalent to the base layer of your car's paint job. Damaged or removed top coat would be the equivalent to damaged or removed clear coat, which means no "protector" or "conditioner" in this world and no "dye" will make this good, only a proper leather repair job in which you rebuild the whole OEM leather coatings will - much like a respray on the exterior of a car.



There's actually a really simple way of knowing whether what you clean off a leather steering wheel is dirt or the leather's base coat: repeat the cleaning cycle. If everytime you repeat the cleaning cycle there's more black stuff coming off, then you know you're not dealing with dirt...



We as consumers need to start being more critical, spread knowledge and hold content creators accountable for spreading wrong information, i.e. if those information can lead people to destroy parts of their cars.



If you want to know how to safely clean leather, here's the short version:

1. Use a vacuum first

2. Don’t use too much liquid (cleaners) and don‘t let fluids soak into the leather, foam up your cleaning liquid and apply it into your chosen cleaning tool

3. Use dedicated leather cleaners as close to pH neutral as possible - not all leather cleaners are created equally, ideally don‘t use anything above pH 8 and below pH 6

4. Don’t use APCs, degreasers, or saddle soap

5. Don‘t use IPAs or cleaners with solvents

6. Primarily use cotton towels, not microfibre ones (old t-shirts or bed sheets are ok)

7. Don’t use steam

8. Don‘t use magic erasers

9. Don‘t use drill brushes

10. Use non-abrasive leather cleaning foam sponges instead of scrub pads or brushes

Yvan Lacroix has made a lot of incorrect claims over the years, sometimes he certainly does come off as a clown. But in this instance, he makes a good point.

This quoted post is pretty much my view on using APC on interiors, and leather in particular. Can you use APC, absolutely when diluted properly. Should you use APC on interiors, probably not.

There are pH balanced interior cleaners on the market that clean just as well, if not better than APC. Griot's Interior Cleaner and KCx Pol Star for example. Now, I don't even need those two products on my interiors, a damp towel, an interior detailer such as Megs QID, or a rinse-less wash is all I need. And I suspect a lot of AG members would only need such treatment on their own cars too. However, on really dirty interiors and leather, I've never been left wanting more cleaning ability from either the Griots or Pol Star. They also don't dry out the treated surface.

We are often taught to "use the least aggressive method first". To me, using a heavily alkaline cleaning chemical on sensitive interior surfaces doesn't really fit that remark. APC's are effectively degreasers, would you spray a product labeled as a degreaser onto your interior? Probably not. So why are we using APC when there are safer, less aggressive methods that will do the same job?

I know most don't agree with that view, and I can understand the appeal of APC. But again, I think most here maintain their cars waaaay beyond what 95% of the population does. In which case, do you really need APC to do what a damp towel or detailer can achieve?

 

[Optimus Grime]

I know most don't agree with that view, and I can understand the appeal of APC. But again, I think most here maintain their cars waaaay beyond what 95% of the population does. In which case, do you really need APC to do what a damp towel or detailer can achieve?

I agree with this 100%. I think a lot of this comes from the people that get their detailing degree from Utoob University where “professors” tell you that you can detail the interior of a car with just one chemical that can be diluted for different surfaces. That’s why I tell people to stay away from product pushers and if you are going to look to content creators for advice, follow people that are genuine about wanting to spread info and not salesman.

 

[chilly]

To answer the initial question...

Yes, he is a clown shoe and he lost all credibility with me years ago

He may know more than all of us put together, but since he has always been for sale to the highest bidder, I refuse to even give his channel a click