Corvette Clearcoat- Hard yet Soft?

[Waxmax]

It's well known that Corvette clear is hard (as in hard to remove swirls), but then why does it "attract" swirls so easily?

Hard to remove swirls, easy to make them?

 

[Jimmie]

Wierd huh? Some of the most swirled-up cars that I see are the hard CC's.

 

[GearHead_1]

I too have considered this in the past. In my mind I've answered the question by concluding that because the paint is "hard" its ability to flex is diminished. Therefore anything with an edge to it cuts into the paint instead of the paint allowing it to absorb or rebound. Of course most polishes don't have abrasives that are quite that sharp therefore it takes a while to get the scratch cut down. Anyway that's how I justified it in my own mind and I'm sticking too it.

 

[David Fermani]

because the paint is "hard" its ability to flex is diminished. Therefore anything with an edge to it cuts into the paint instead of the paint allowing it to absorb or rebound.

Nice try. Is normal washing (touching) of the paint really flexing it? All paint these days is so much more flexable that most body shops don't need to use a flex additive. I only find some clears to be hard and scratch easy (Corvettes). I'm still puzzled myself? It might have something to do with the type of hardener they use? Vehicles painted with Ceramic clear (Mercedes) are pretty tough and have a hard time showing swirls, better yet scratches.

 

[ltoman]

hard to repair, easy to damage. mine drives me nuts.

 

[Z06-Goose]

It's just like a mirror; hard as nail, but easily swirled

 

[TOGWT]

Hardness: [In materials science, hardness is the characteristic of a solid material expressing its resistance to permanent deformation. There are three principal operational definitions of hardness: Scratch hardness, Indentation hardness, Rebound or dynamic hardness

Hardness is defined as the ability of a material to resist local deformation (or penetration) from externally applied pressure, and is directly related to its tensile strength; stronger materials are generally harder. The enamel paint finishes on vehicles from the 50’s and 60’s era were as tough as porcelain. But rightly due to environmental concerns, those high percentage petroleum based paints have been generally superseded, resulting in the softer water-based paint finishes of today and the unavoidable orange-peel seen on many new and re-painted vehicles.

Today’s paints, unfortunately, rank somewhere near the bottom of the scale of hardness, especially single coat black / red paint the exception being white single stage and Ceramiclear, when compared to all the materials your paint can possibly come in contact with (always bear that in mind).

An adaptation of that hardness scale;Talc =1 Carbon Black [black paint pigmentation] = 2, Glass = 6, Titanium dioxide [white paint pigmentation] = 7, Diamond =10
(See also Mohs Hardness Scale, Clear Coats, Ceramiclear)

Hard and soft are relative terms; you can scratch the hard surface of a vehicles paint with a soft towel by the application of enough pressure. Both pressure and mechanical stress are defined as force per unit area. These two forces are the subject of Newton's third law of motion; the law of reciprocal actions [To every action there is an equal and opposite reaction]

A force acts through a body that has a surface area; if the surface area is really small while maintaining an equal force, the pressure becomes astronomical and the object under pressure capable of penetrating the surface of an otherwise tough material. That’s why a micro fine thread in an otherwise soft towel will scratch your paint and the same reason a mosquito can penetrate a rhino hide with its proboscis (stinger).

Note - Heat makes solids softer; cold makes them harder. Keep that in mind when detailing (especially polishing) your car in the sun or on a really, really hot day.
(See also Hard / Soft Clear Coats)

 

[David Fermani]

TOGWT - You're a wealth of information! But, alot of your posts/replys are above most peoples (if not all) comprehension and understanding. (please don't take this the wrong way). It's almost like a high school student taking an advanced physics class at Harvard. Can you rephrase and/or direct your posts keeping this in mind. Your message may come out better.

You wrote above that different colors are harder/softer than others. How does this come into play when almost every finish these days are clear coated?

Does a finish with more orange peel have the ability to show off less surface marring because of this peely finish reflecting/refracting less clarity? If so, does this make the OP'd finish more durable in addition?

 

[ScottB]

I think improper washing and drying techniques are the main culprit and this harder clearcoat just shows how easy it is to make swirls when doing things improperly.

 

[Waxmax]

But then why do softer clears not swirls as badly? Also, I understand force over a small surface area gives rise to high pressure (basic physics) and all that, but given comparable washing, drying procedures, the vettes just seem to pick up swirls more easily....jme.

 

[ScottB]

softer clears, or lighter colors ??? Corvettes are known for some of the most vivid colors and might reflect more thus showing these markings.

 

[TOGWT]

TOGWT - You're a wealth of information! But, alot of your posts/replys are above most peoples (if not all) comprehension and understanding. (please don't take this the wrong way). It's almost like a high school student taking an advanced physics class at Harvard. Can you rephrase and/or direct your posts keeping this in mind. Your message may come out better.

You wrote above that different colors are harder/softer than others. How does this come into play when almost every finish these days are clear coated?

Does a finish with more orange peel have the ability to show off less surface marring because of this peely finish reflecting/refracting less clarity? If so, does this make the OP'd finish more durable in addition?

Begs the question, do you teach the class to the comprehension of the least able student or do you teach so that each student aspires to reach their full potential?

 

[GearHead_1]

Begs the question, do you teach the class to the comprehension of the least able student or do you teach so that each student aspires to reach their full potential?

Ahhhh, a self appointed teacher. Bueller? Bueller? Now where is Ferris?

 

[David Fermani]

Begs the question, do you teach the class to the comprehension of the least able student or do you teach so that each student aspires to reach their full potential?

Well, considering that I consider myself far from the "least able student", I'd suggest you explain yourself so that EVERYONE will benefit from your efforts. That way ANYONE can understand you and learn from the energy you spend posting here (and on other forums). I'm not trying to agrue, I'm trying to be respectful and learn from you. Is that too much to ask?

So, do you mind going back and helping me out with the questions I asked you above?

Very well put.

From your quote I assume you know the answer to the questions I asked, so I can only assume that you'll be equally qualified to answer then? Please do.......

 

[Brian_Brice]

Begs the question, do you teach the class to the comprehension of the least able student or do you teach so that each student aspires to reach their full potential?

Very well put.:whs:

 

[TOGWT]

Quote: Well, considering that I consider myself far from the "least able student", I'd suggest you explain yourself so that EVERYONE will benefit from your efforts. That way ANYONE can understand you and learn from the energy you spend posting here (and on other forums). I'm not trying to agrue, I'm trying to be respectful and learn from you. Is that too much to ask?

So, do you mind going back and helping me out with the questions I asked you above?"

I 've spent a few years teaching but I do not have the ability to teach so that anyone and everyone, at any level of experience and / or detailing knowledge can comprehend the answer.

If you tell me specifically what it is you don't understand about the post, I'll do my best to explain it. I've posted this on other forums and any clarifications were incorporated.

FWIW- " Well, considering that I consider myself far from the "least able student ... "
I've been posting on verious forums for quite a few years and make it a point never to make personal attacks or single out an individual by making a specific remark, so there is no need to feel 'singled out'.

 

[David Fermani]

If you tell me specifically what it is you don't understand about the post, I'll do my best to explain it.

Thanks for understanding.
From my prior post:

You wrote above that different colors are harder/softer than others. How does this come into play when almost every finish these days are clear coated?

Does a finish with more orange peel have the ability to show off less surface marring because of this peely finish reflecting/refracting less clarity? If so, does this make the OP'd finish more durable in addition?

Maybe Brian could take a stab at this as well?

 

[TOGWT]

Q1. You wrote above that different colors are harder/softer than others. How does this come into play when almost every finish these days are clear coated?

Colour hardness would only apply to a single stage paint system, as clear coat has no colour

Q2. Does a finish with more orange peel have the ability to show off less surface marring because of this peely finish reflecting/refracting less clarity? If so, does this make the OP'd finish more durable in addition?

a) A ‘flat’ surface as you elude to will show every surface imperfection due to its light reflecting attributes.

b) A paint surface that exhibits orange peel has a paint surface that varies in thickness, but I don’t think it would affect its durability; this would happen if the paint is abraded until the paint surface becomes very thin and / or the ultra violet (UV) protection is removed. As its light reflection is ‘altered’ surface imperfections are less noticeable on this type of surface.

 

[David Fermani]

Thank you very much. I'm on the same page. It's intersting to know that some single stage colors are harder/softer that others. Very interesting.

Would you say that a heavy OP'd finish would scratch or marr less/more from day to day abuse compared to a very flat surface?

 

[TOGWT]

Thank you very much. I'm on the same page. It's intersting to know that some single stage colors are harder/softer that others. Very interesting.

Would you say that a heavy OP'd finish would scratch or marr less/more from day to day abuse compared to a very flat surface?

No, a 'flat' paint surface will show every imperfaction, likewise, compare a light and dark colored paint, the dark paint shows imperfections whereas the light paint doesn't, even if both surfaces have the same amount of imperfections (a black vehicle with 'flat' paint is a challenge, although I have heard other words to describe it!)