Mike Phillips
Active member
- Dec 5, 2022
- 51,004
- 6
Customer says I caused holograms in coating? - Wants to sue me!
Anytime I get questions via e-mail, a PM or a FB message I prefer to invest my typing time where
A: It's easier for me to share links, pictures and videos.
B: More people can read and thus benefit from the information. (no just one set of eyeballs)
The reality is, most people that contact me found me via an article I've written or a reply I've written on this forum. The thing is, instead of figuring out that the whole reason they are contacting me is because they found me via an article or answer I wrote on the forum that they to should bring their question to the forum because not only will that help them.... but it will help a future "them". If I answer everything in a private e-mail or other touch point, no one would find and contact me. It's a cycle or pattern that repeats as long as everything is shared in the public domain.
The above is kind of wordy but re-read it slowly and it will make sense.
So I get an e-mail asking,
Hi Mike big fan.
I have a problem I wanna get your in put on....
I ceramic coated a Gentlemans ocean blue Silverado back in September. he called me a few weeks ago saying he has holograms in his ceramic coating. I asked him to bring it to my shop so I can see it and indeed there are holograms in the entire ceramic coat. I asked him what he was using to dry the ceramic coat and he said a shammy and pulled it out of his truck, and it’s one of those ones that you can buy at Walmart. I explained to him that I told him from the begging not to use a shammy I also gave him a pamphlet from the C quartz UK3.0 that states how to properly maintain the ceramic coating.
I told him the only thing I can think of is the shammy is what put the holograms in it.because I know he didn’t take a rotary buffer to the ceramic coat but I also don’t know if he had another detailer touch it ( I havnt touched the truck since giving it back after the ceramic coating and it didn’t have holograms cause he didn’t want the paint correction just the ceramic coating)but none the less he wants to blame me saying I didn’t install the c quartz 3.0 and is threatening to sue me if I don’t refund his money but I don’t believe with everything that I’ve learn that I’am at fault. I believe your written expert opinion will help me in this matter.
Please and thank you
Wow!
Sorry to hear of your dilemma. I'm not sure how much I can help?
First - words mean things. Let's start with the word hologram or holograms. From my article below,
The word holograms means a specific scratch pattern inflicted into paint using a rotary buffer
The discussion about holograms comes up all the time in the car detailing world. The word holograms means,
a specific scratch pattern inflicted into paint using a rotary buffer
The pattern of swirls you see are actually scratches and the pattern you see in the paint mimic the direction a rotary buffer was moved over the surface.
Holograms from the use of a rotary polisher
So a shammy cannot inflict holograms into car paint or a coated car - ONLY a rotary buffer can put holograms into a car's paint, or coated paint.
A shammy can cause swirls and marring, but not holograms.
You say he did not want to pay for paint correction so you didn't do any paint correction you only applied the coating? At least that's what I think I'm reading from what you wrote. Then it could be you coated over someone else's hack work. That is, the truck could have had holograms in the paint BEFORE you worked on it and because you didn't do any paint correction, (a polishing step), you merely coated over the holograms and now he's blaming you.
The only other option I can see here is if this customer took it to someone else to detail AFTER you coated it and the other person used a rotary buffer to put holograms into the coated paint.
Here's the deal - I have my own rules for coatings cars and that is if I'm going to apply a ceramic paint coating or any LSP - I'm going to do at least one machine polishing step and thereby avoid this problem.
I don't have an easy answer for you but the easy way out and avoid a lawsuit would be to simply re-do the truck. ONLY use and orbital polisher. Do NOT use a rotary buffer. Machine polish the entire truck to remove the holograms and then chemically strip the paint and re-apply the coating.
The above is not the fast and easy way out but it is the way to save your reputation and satisfy the owner. Then share this thread with him and I'll back you up in that coatings are NOT invisible force fields and "YES" even a coated vehicle must be washed carefully and dried carefully.
In the future - if you're not already - get a copy of my Vehicle Inspection Form and be sure to inspect the paint on any car you detail before you touch it and document all pre-existing damage.
Holograms in the paint ARE pre-existing damage.
And one more thing - in my detailing classes, both the big 3-day class here and my roadshow classes - I teach guys how to avoid this problem in the first place. Plus I teach a TONS of other stuff. Read some of the reviews I get from people that attend my classes and if I'm in your neck of the woods - take the class. It won't cost you money - it will MAKE and save you money.
Hope that helps and feel encouraged to join our forum, this is where I answer questions. Email and Facebook messaging are okay, but the forum is a LOT more powerful. (think about it - it's how you found me in the first place)
Click here to join the AutogeekOnline.net car detailing discussion forum - THE best forum on the Internet
As you can see - I don't answer question via FB messaging...
Anytime I get questions via e-mail, a PM or a FB message I prefer to invest my typing time where
A: It's easier for me to share links, pictures and videos.
B: More people can read and thus benefit from the information. (no just one set of eyeballs)
The reality is, most people that contact me found me via an article I've written or a reply I've written on this forum. The thing is, instead of figuring out that the whole reason they are contacting me is because they found me via an article or answer I wrote on the forum that they to should bring their question to the forum because not only will that help them.... but it will help a future "them". If I answer everything in a private e-mail or other touch point, no one would find and contact me. It's a cycle or pattern that repeats as long as everything is shared in the public domain.
The above is kind of wordy but re-read it slowly and it will make sense.
So I get an e-mail asking,
Hi Mike big fan.
I have a problem I wanna get your in put on....
I ceramic coated a Gentlemans ocean blue Silverado back in September. he called me a few weeks ago saying he has holograms in his ceramic coating. I asked him to bring it to my shop so I can see it and indeed there are holograms in the entire ceramic coat. I asked him what he was using to dry the ceramic coat and he said a shammy and pulled it out of his truck, and it’s one of those ones that you can buy at Walmart. I explained to him that I told him from the begging not to use a shammy I also gave him a pamphlet from the C quartz UK3.0 that states how to properly maintain the ceramic coating.
I told him the only thing I can think of is the shammy is what put the holograms in it.because I know he didn’t take a rotary buffer to the ceramic coat but I also don’t know if he had another detailer touch it ( I havnt touched the truck since giving it back after the ceramic coating and it didn’t have holograms cause he didn’t want the paint correction just the ceramic coating)but none the less he wants to blame me saying I didn’t install the c quartz 3.0 and is threatening to sue me if I don’t refund his money but I don’t believe with everything that I’ve learn that I’am at fault. I believe your written expert opinion will help me in this matter.
Please and thank you
Wow!
Sorry to hear of your dilemma. I'm not sure how much I can help?
First - words mean things. Let's start with the word hologram or holograms. From my article below,
The word holograms means a specific scratch pattern inflicted into paint using a rotary buffer
The discussion about holograms comes up all the time in the car detailing world. The word holograms means,
a specific scratch pattern inflicted into paint using a rotary buffer
The pattern of swirls you see are actually scratches and the pattern you see in the paint mimic the direction a rotary buffer was moved over the surface.
Holograms from the use of a rotary polisher
So a shammy cannot inflict holograms into car paint or a coated car - ONLY a rotary buffer can put holograms into a car's paint, or coated paint.
A shammy can cause swirls and marring, but not holograms.
You say he did not want to pay for paint correction so you didn't do any paint correction you only applied the coating? At least that's what I think I'm reading from what you wrote. Then it could be you coated over someone else's hack work. That is, the truck could have had holograms in the paint BEFORE you worked on it and because you didn't do any paint correction, (a polishing step), you merely coated over the holograms and now he's blaming you.
The only other option I can see here is if this customer took it to someone else to detail AFTER you coated it and the other person used a rotary buffer to put holograms into the coated paint.
Here's the deal - I have my own rules for coatings cars and that is if I'm going to apply a ceramic paint coating or any LSP - I'm going to do at least one machine polishing step and thereby avoid this problem.
I don't have an easy answer for you but the easy way out and avoid a lawsuit would be to simply re-do the truck. ONLY use and orbital polisher. Do NOT use a rotary buffer. Machine polish the entire truck to remove the holograms and then chemically strip the paint and re-apply the coating.
The above is not the fast and easy way out but it is the way to save your reputation and satisfy the owner. Then share this thread with him and I'll back you up in that coatings are NOT invisible force fields and "YES" even a coated vehicle must be washed carefully and dried carefully.
In the future - if you're not already - get a copy of my Vehicle Inspection Form and be sure to inspect the paint on any car you detail before you touch it and document all pre-existing damage.
Holograms in the paint ARE pre-existing damage.
And one more thing - in my detailing classes, both the big 3-day class here and my roadshow classes - I teach guys how to avoid this problem in the first place. Plus I teach a TONS of other stuff. Read some of the reviews I get from people that attend my classes and if I'm in your neck of the woods - take the class. It won't cost you money - it will MAKE and save you money.
Hope that helps and feel encouraged to join our forum, this is where I answer questions. Email and Facebook messaging are okay, but the forum is a LOT more powerful. (think about it - it's how you found me in the first place)
Click here to join the AutogeekOnline.net car detailing discussion forum - THE best forum on the Internet
As you can see - I don't answer question via FB messaging...
