D-Limonene Based Products

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statusdetailing

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I recently started a thread about products that would be good for Pretreatment of lower body panels. I need a product that will remove tar a road grime as easily as possible without damaging the vehicle.

Thanks everybody for all the suggestions.

What I realized is that I think I am looking for a product with D-Limonene

From what I understand, D-limonene is a natural citrus derivative of oranges or lemons.

It is very potent while still being environmentally and human friendly.

What I don't Understand:

What percentage of D-Limonene is ideal for bug and tar removal without damaging paint or plastic trim.

Different grade products use different surfacterants, etc. Which ones are good or bad?
----------------------
I am really trying to take my shop to the next level and I am now fairly certain that many of the high end detailers are using d-limonene as a pretreatment/bug and tar remover.
 
Don't know the %, but P21S TAW is the gold standard in that category IMHO. Or, you could make your own with CG Citrus Wash Red. I mix up an oz / 32 oz of water in a spray bottle when stripping LSPs.
 
Citrus terps is effective but it is not the wonder product detailer seem to believe. It is not even new and was initially introduced to cleaners (generic) thanks to low cost. Unfortunately it is no longer low cost so the truth is that any related product will probably be on the expensive side. In practice, you are using a d-limonene emulsion of some sort, d-limonene is like gasoline and doesn't mix with water without surfactant. What level you need depends on the rest of the formulation - a fraction of a percent can be enough. Remember that you probably need 2, 3 or 4 times the amount of surfactant to stabilise the emulsion and this surfactant can in fact do much of the work.

Another thing you should know is that whilst it is renewable, it is NOT kind on the environment! D-limonene is a highly toxic marine pollutant... But this is conveniently ignored!
 
What's the answer then? It seems as if there is no relatively safe and effective way to remove tar from a vehicle. Why is this such a mystery!?
 
swanicyouth said:
Don't know the %, but P21S TAW is the gold standard in that category IMHO. Or, you could make your own with CG Citrus Wash Red. I mix up an oz / 32 oz of water in a spray bottle when stripping LSPs.
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I was diluting CG citrus wash clear in a spray bottle and using as an APC but I switched to CG bug and tar shampoo. I use 10:1 for cleaning, foams up with scrubbing.
 
It is better to be friendly to the environment than your car. Do not posion the world in order to have an easier time cleaning a car.
 
pickles said:
I was diluting CG citrus wash clear in a spray bottle and using as an APC but I switched to CG bug and tar shampoo. I use 10:1 for cleaning, foams up with scrubbing.
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Are you talking about the bug bugger? I think I'm just gonna try it. It's only 20 some odd bucks. If it sucks..oh well.
 
slimnib said:
It is better to be friendly to the environment than your car. Do not posion the world in order to have an easier time cleaning a car.
Click to expand...

I absolutely agree! :xyxthumbs: What products do you use?
 
There is no simple answer here. In the UK we have a much bigger issue with tar and the ubiquitous solution is hydrocarbon solvents - cheapest and most effective solution. P21S TAW frankly wouldn't hold a candle to even the mildest of solvent based cleaners, in fact no water dilutable product will do so without making it really nasty. But again, not very environmentally friendly to use these solvents and totally inappropriate where you have VOC regulations to meet. There is also a sliding scale of effectiveness - mineral spirits is at the mild end. These will do limited harm to trim etc. and aren't too nasty to you. Autoglym tar and glue is an example. There is a common misconception that this product is weak, it is simply safe and slower acting. More effective products are often high in xylene or toluene and get raved about by those I'll informed in chemical safety - they are fast but will quickly stain plastics and trim, can etch paint if misused and are rather harmful to the user.

Really there is no easy answer and you have to balance safety, effectiveness and cost... And preferably read a bit about the ingredients instead of listening to the many voices on some forums who don't understand the topic.
 
ObsessiveAutoDetail said:
Try it. I think you will like it. I dilute it 1:1. It's still 2 gallons of product for 20 or so dollars. A good bargain.
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I just ordered it along with a bunch of 4 and 5.5" lc pads, a backing plate and some other random stuff. Looking forward to trying it.

Not looking for a miracle. Just looking for something relatively safe that works with a little elbow grease.

I'll be very happy if this product works.

I got the 15% discount and free shipping by the way! Thanks AG!
 
Mr Megane said:
There is no simple answer here. In the UK we have a much bigger issue with tar and the ubiquitous solution is hydrocarbon solvents - cheapest and most effective solution. P21S TAW frankly wouldn't hold a candle to even the mildest of solvent based cleaners, in fact no water dilutable product will do so without making it really nasty. But again, not very environmentally friendly to use these solvents and totally inappropriate where you have VOC regulations to meet. There is also a sliding scale of effectiveness - mineral spirits is at the mild end. These will do limited harm to trim etc. and aren't too nasty to you. Autoglym tar and glue is an example. There is a common misconception that this product is weak, it is simply safe and slower acting. More effective products are often high in xylene or toluene and get raved about by those I'll informed in chemical safety - they are fast but will quickly stain plastics and trim, can etch paint if misused and are rather harmful to the user.

Really there is no easy answer and you have to balance safety, effectiveness and cost... And preferably read a bit about the ingredients instead of listening to the many voices on some forums who don't understand the topic.
Click to expand...


I'll admit, I've raved about xylene. I've taken all that kind of crap out of my shop. I use acid on wheels once in a blue moon and charge more for it.

I'm mostly concerned about my health, but the side affect is that I'll be helping the environment as well.
 
@OP:

I still think that some of the companies I listed on your other thread (regarding "cleaning below the belt-line"
on vehicles) would be able to provide pertinent information to assist you in finding a solution in finding the
proper solvents for your situation...as well as "upgrading your shop".

As Mr. Megane has alluded to...
Below is a chart of the "solvency of solvents"
(solvent-"power" doesn’t always equate so much to solvent-"strength", per se)

KB_2.jpg


-Indeed, there is a certain relation between the Kb value of a solvent and it’s capacity to clean.
-Because solvents with low Kb values (< 35) can be petroleum-based…
they tend to dissolve greases/tars somewhat easily…especially the mineral ones.
-They also normally don’t do damage to vehicle’s materials that are treated with them…
if used according to directions.

slimnib said:
It is better to be friendly to the environment than your car.
Do not posion the world in order to have an easier time cleaning a car.

^^^:iagree:^^^
Click to expand...

But compared to cleaning-products containing "Butyl" (OH! So many, many, many do)…
d-limonene is being considered as an: Environmentally Preferable Product (EPP).

(I have a feeling that this EPP-rating is dependant upon the % of d-limonene, the type/% of surfactants,
flash-suppressants, etc. contained within a d-limonene cleaning product.)


Anyway...
Below are some more chemical suppliers that not only have d-limonene products…
but other pre-treatment chemicals for removal of almost anything under the Sun,
or the Earth below...that is thrown a vehicle’s way.

378.JPG
425.JPG


SolidGhr.jpg
th
Aquasafe+bulk.jpg



Now some chemical supply houses even carry: Soy/d-Limonene Hybrid Products!!

700.JPG


And...There are even citrus/peroxide pre-treatments:

cc_spotlight_GP-Citrus.jpg



Good Luck in your search!!


:)

Bob
 
Bob, wow! You have gone so far and beyond what you had to. Thank you so much. I'm still looking into the products you mentioned on my other post. This really gives me a place to start. That KB value chart is something I recently stumbled on as well, and it really helps me visualize the "strength" of a product.

I have become more interested lately in the make up of products rather than simply the hype surrounding them.

How do you have so much knowledge of cleaning supplies? What do you do for a living?
 
statusdetailing said:
Cool, thanks. I bought it in the gallon size.
Click to expand...

Cool, that and some brushes from Mothers will keep ur wheels,tires, and wells clean. I also like to spray down the windshield, front end, rear view mirrors, tail pipes etc ,prior to a snow down with the foam gun.
 
Perfections said:
Get stoners tarminator and be done with tar.
Click to expand...

killrwheels@autogeek said:
P21s total auto wash
Click to expand...

The OP needs to clarify what he wants. As I understand these, one is a solvent degreaser (stoners) and the other a water dilutable emulsion. The latter is a general purpose, mild, degreaser and the former a heavy duty tar and oil dissolver. The two should only be compared for relatively light tar and grease, with high levels like on the UK, total auto wash really and truly won't come close.
 
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