Detergents and Collinite #476

Odisious

Odisious

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Is Collinite #476 detergent proof? I thought that only coatings or ceramics, quarts, nano-glasses were able to actually be detergent proof. I've never heard or seen anything in regards to what Collinite does to boost its wax to make it last so long, but also never looked into #476 until today and was surprised to see "detergent proof" in the description.
 
They've been calling it "detergent proof" for 40 years. If you want to get into the semantics of that, you'll have to wade into "permanent", "durable polishes" etc.
 
Detergent 'proof' would be a bit on the strong side for any product like collinite. It will, however, be strongly detergent resistant. The same thing will be true for almost any wax or sealant. If you want to experiment, get a bit of wax and throw it in a container filled with washing up soap - I guarantee you that it will not dissolve (whether you leave it for a minute or a year!).
 
PiPUK said:
Detergent 'proof' would be a bit on the strong side for any product like collinite. It will, however, be strongly detergent resistant. The same thing will be true for almost any wax or sealant. If you want to experiment, get a bit of wax and throw it in a container filled with washing up soap - I guarantee you that it will not dissolve (whether you leave it for a minute or a year!).
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I see...That's a good way to put it...Detergent proof in an environment that's not necessarily exposed to what a vehicle's paint is exposed to. Does the 476 kick 845's butt?
 
Smack's it, not kicks it. 476 lasts longer and on my black paint look's better. It got me through this past harsh winter w/lot's of salty roads for over 4 months with NO TOPPER'S.
 
swanicyouth said:
Can someone tells what a detergent is?

I'm thinking Tide.
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uhhhhhhhhhh...long night last night?

pld said:
Smack's it, not kicks it. 476 lasts longer and on my black paint look's better. It got me through this past harsh winter w/lot's of salty roads for over 4 months with NO TOPPER'S.
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How was dust and cleanability? I didn't like how dust and road tar were difficult to remove when I used 845...Better than other LSPs but 845 didn't hold a candle to the cleanabiliy of DP coating I have on one of my DDs. My truck I'd like to not coat and keep that as my experiment vehicle because it's not a DD.
 
Odisious said:
uhhhhhhhhhh...long night last night?



How was dust and cleanability? I didn't like how dust and road tar were difficult to remove when I used 845...Better than other LSPs but 845 didn't hold a candle to the cleanabiliy of DP coating I have on one of my DDs. My truck I'd like to not coat and keep that as my experiment vehicle because it's not a DD.
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Not much different that I noticed from 845 and 476 in cleanability, sooooo...
you should start to think about using Sonax PnS because from what I'm reading about this product, your vehicle will practically wash itself after some rain.:xyxthumbs:
 
Pipuk had it nailed Imo. It is quite resistant to the alkaline cleaners at the touch less (at least 845 was for me on my father's vehicle) but in time it will degrade. Though Collinite makes an amazing bang for the buck product.
 
Lets look back over time, 50, 75 or more years.
Apparently detergent strength soaps were commomplace.
Waxes were advertized as "serving the automotive, institutional and industrial marketplaces".
Institutional and Industrial (and Marine) marketplace I think is the origin of detergent proof durability.
Industrial strength wax to resist industrial strength soap.

The auto...anybodys guess on what soap someone would use in those early, mid-century days on their car.
During those radio broadcast years a leading company in the field had a popular slogan "Motorists Wise, Simoniz".
Collinite founded in 1936 was in the period of such strong cleaning products and had products to do just that.
Apparently chose to rely on word of mouth promotion (popular in the yacht yards, marinas, etc...)

Fast forward to today, with all options to pick from around the home, a detergent product, such as laundry
or dishwasher detergent would seem excessive just to wash the car.
But many would consider a Dish Soap and have over the past maybe 50 years.

So, Collinite degrading...why not? Isn't that part of the theory behind using any wax?
Impart a shine, protect and in the natural flaking / degrading process take along embedded surface grime.
And in time completely remove it with solvent or a companies cleaner wax product.
Your choice...to degrade (waxes) or not to degrade (coatings).

antiquerick
 
Foreword:
Since "The Second Law of Thermodynamics" is sometimes viewed as a rather cumbersome phrase; and, because Entropy is a (measurement)-index of this second law's predictions about energy:
I'll use this shortened (some say: interchangable) version.


As such...
In your below post are you stating that 'Coatings' are immune to/unaffected by: Entropy?

TIA.

rhk531 said:
So, Collinite degrading...why not? Isn't that part of the theory behind using any wax?
Impart a shine, protect and in the natural flaking / degrading process take along embedded surface grime.
And in time completely remove it with solvent or a companies cleaner wax product.

Your choice...
to degrade (waxes)
or not to degrade (coatings).
Click to expand...


Bob
 
rhk531 said:
So, Collinite degrading...why not? Isn't that part of the theory behind using any wax?
Impart a shine, protect and in the natural flaking / degrading process take along embedded surface grime.
And in time completely remove it with solvent or a companies cleaner wax product.
Your choice...to degrade (waxes) or not to degrade (coatings).

antiquerick
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It's an interesting concept for sure, but waxes being designed to flake or degrade is just a property of natural waxes, not the theory in the use. If that were so waxes would be designed to wash off taking contams with them after a week and polishing with things like kero would have never been done back in the day...hence, Collinite would have never made their waxes with freakish life spans. The striving of almost all professional companies (even Turtle Wax with their newest offering, maybe the exception is chemical guys hahaha) is to create products with longevity (i.e. sealants, and sealant wax combinations; now everyone is making their versions of coatings). It makes for a discussion, but I was just pointing out they advertise their product as resistant to detergents (think of degreasing agents). If a product is resistant to detergents then it will also be resistant to droppings, ozone, contams, even an IPA wipe down..?...just wondering how much it resists these things compared to coating. I may have to do a panel test on a coatings vs. 476, but I really don't want to spring for the 476...I'd rather put that money into other things...I do have some 845 I could test with. I don't know if that's a fair comparison though.
 
Just beware, we are getting a number of terminologies thrown about. "Detergent strength soap" is a meaningless term. To be brutally honest, I wish you guys would drop the "soap" term - it is WRONG! What you guys tend to refer to as "soaps" are actually detergents and the reality is that soaps do not exist in this sector of the market because they are an old tech which are massively inferior to modern detergents/surfactants.
 
PiPUK said:
To be brutally honest, I wish you guys would drop the "soap" term - it is WRONG! What you guys tend to refer to as "soaps" are actually detergents and the reality is that soaps do not exist in this sector of the market because they are an old tech which are massively inferior to modern detergents/surfactants.
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Isn't "soap" used colloquially across the pond like it is here? Hand soap, dish soap, etc.? I know you used the term "washing up liquid" earlier (which had to remind me of the "do we have a video?" episode of The Young Ones), so maybe you don't use "soap" over there.
 
PiPUK said:
Just beware, we are getting a number of terminologies thrown about. "Detergent strength soap" is a meaningless term. To be brutally honest, I wish you guys would drop the "soap" term - it is WRONG! What you guys tend to refer to as "soaps" are actually detergents and the reality is that soaps do not exist in this sector of the market because they are an old tech which are massively inferior to modern detergents/surfactants.
Click to expand...


This was my point. All car wash soap are detergents.
 
Simplify via scenario. APC or a well diluted engine degreaser sprayed over a panel half LSP of 476 and the other half a coating. Will the 476 hold up half as well as a coating? A quarter as well? Not even close? Much better? (PLEASE DON'T PASS JUDGMENT ON THIS IF YOU HAVE NEVER USED A COATING!)

Coating co.s and Collinite have chosen to used detergent resistant as the attributes of their products. If detergent were being referred to by a general "soap" then all of Collinite's products, as well as every LSP on AG and around the world would say, "Detergent resistant." I understand what they mean when they say this and am not hung up on the term detergent (I mean a grease cutting agent, I mean a surface tension displacer, I mean a soap not made from animal fat, I mean...) I am more trying to see to what degree 476 is resistant compared to say, 845, and then of course to a coating.

In the end I think the answer is a vertical panel test this summer on a door...476 vs. coating and view results when ever one fails...problem will be resisting placing other products over them and hoping there are viewable results before Winter! Thanks for all of the input though, being a detailing forum there is always attention to detail so I fault no one on trying to be detailed when it comes to the meaning of detergents.
 
Bob, No, not at this time. Each has merits, each has its own journey.

Odisious, I also don't feel it would be a fair comparison between the two. But maybe fair to see which is easier or faster to repair.

PiPuk, I browsed the AG wash products pages and the word "soap" was nowhere to be found. Thanks for pointing that out.

antiquerick
 
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