Did first buff for a dealer - any way to cut price down???

dnoraker

dnoraker

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I had a dealer call me and say they wanted some cars buffed out. He was offering $50. Funny, after he was telling me about the previous buff jobs with burnt paint and trim, compound in the crevices, etc.

Anyway, I grabbed a car from him yesterday that was literally the worst paint I've every buffed in 150+ cars (I'm part-time) and told him I would get rid of most of the swirls and scratches and wax it for $100. I went to deliver it today and got paid, but found out there was a falling out with his business partner (and brother) about spending that much on the job. $50 was the limit, according to the other guy.

I don't know if I'll ever hear from them again, but if I do, I want to figure out if there is anything else I can do to get closer to their request.

Here was what I did for $100:

- ONR wash and decon with the Speedy Prep Towel using the ONR water (30 minutes on a Saturn)
- D300 Correction Compound for about 90 minutes, or about 4 passes in each section
- D301 Finishing Wax for about 30 minutes

Total time: a little over 2.5 hours
Hourly rate: nearly $40/hr, which is typically my goal

I was quite satisfied that I did professional work and added great value to their car, which looked like heck before and has a great gloss now. The car was dark green and darkened substantially. I think they want near that level of correction for $50, which isn't possible. But, I'm wondering if I can get close for $50-70.

Possibilities:
- cut the D300 time in half, basically doing one heavy pass and one light pass. Just enough to do some substantial swirl removal. This could save 45 minutes and $30
- replace the microfiber system with the rotary and a cleaner/wax to get a bit of cut and spend a little more time working it. The risk is holgorams on the darkest paints.

I think I could pull off a "happy medium" for $70 with either option. My question is- does anyone have a product/pad/machine option that could do a little corrective work and not leave new swirls? I'm sure some very faint holograms would be preferable over car wash scratches and swirls, as long as it had a nice gloss. I don't know if there is a combo on the DA that can cut enough. If they keep sending me shredded paint jobs like what I just worked on, I will need something powerful.

You may be asking "WHY do I want dealer work?" In MN, there is very little detailing work in the winter. I have plenty of other work with my other business, but I wanted a few cars here and there to make a little extra to pay some loans off faster. I'm willing to discount a little to get this done, as even $25-30/hr isn't horrible if I get enough work.

I'm contemplating offering a watered-down version of what I did for about $70 and see if they take it. "Do you want the job done right for $70, or reisk burnt paint again for $50?"

Here is a sample of how bad the car was and what it looked like done after blazing over the paint for 2.5 hours.

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Sorry this didn't have better focus:

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Great job. But don't sell your self short. In addition to the materials and time do you need to carry insurance. That is a cost to consider. Are you using your electric your site. If your site what about heat and water cost. You need to,look at all that. If you can do it for 70.00 by all means do it but I think the minimum should be 100.00
 
Good post, I don't have an answer but will follow the thread to see the out come. I thought about offering dealers a quick detail, then coupons to pass out after sale for a free wash to the customers, then try and sell a detail to the new owners. Just a thought I had.
 
yes- I'm insured. I work in my house's garage, which has electric heat. I probably spend about $10/car for insurance if I'm doing one a week. I'm hoping to get more in than that. I've typically had 1-2/mo just off Craigslist and was hoping I would be more like 5-6/mo with this dealer work. They said they buy up a ton of cars around this time and sell a ton in the spring, which is when my phone really starts ringing for retail work.

I think I would need around $15 for materials, insurance and electrical. I thought about closing up shop for the winter because insurance was too expensive for how little I was working in years past. I was hoping to pick up enough work this year to make worth it and just give it one more shot. So, since I'm paying for the insurance anyway when I DON'T have any work, I figured I could grab some volume work as long as the money was "ok".

With all that said, If I could wash, decon, D300 and D301 in 2 hours at my normal rate of $40/hr, $80 would be doable. When I try to get $40/hr, that's including expenses. I probably really make more like $30/hr all said and done, depending on the job. More for the heavy buffing jobs. I figure if I went out to find a PT job to supplement my income, I wouldn't make more than $15/hr, so even $25/hr in my pocket would be worth it.

$70 would be for wash/decon paint-only, D300 for an hour (maybe 3 section passes), D301 for 30 min. I think that would be enough correction to make them happy.

Keep this all in context that I'm part-time in this with annual revenue around $10k and no employees other than the occasional assistant to get a project done a little quicker.
 
One of the owners does it himself. This one wasn't bad. Definitely not a detail job, but it wasn't disgusting or anything.

He specifically had concerns with the darker cars that were heavily scratched or swirled. He felt that customers were sometimes turned off by how hazy they looked. I've always thought these dealers could get more money for the cars if they had a nice gloss to them and looked good in the sun, but what do I know. :)
 
These used car guys seem like the type that will beat you down on the price even if you said $50.00 There goal is to save every dollar they can as it is profit for them. Stick to your guns!
 
most of the time true, an interior detail is what people care the most about when it comes to $2500 cars. but, this sounds so similar to a lot that my shop did work for recently. acted all interested and then we did an amazing job on 2 interiors for him and he didnt want to pay the $50 each, even after telling him that would be the price before i ever picked up the car. i heard from his employees that he pays his detailers less than minimum wage, pays cash, and if they complain, he just fires them. never touching this guys stuff again. but, yes for 2.5 hours of work, and paying $100 you got a good deal. you cant complain about that. some people just dont get it and a lot of cheap used car dealers dont want to spend $100 on a car. my opinion, dont do work for them. find a high dollar dealer that sells benz and lexus. those guys know the value of a dollar and are more willing to pay the extra.
 
john b said:
wash,clay.1step it for that kinda money
Click to expand...

That is the other half of my original post- is there a combo that can achieve a far amount of correction without leaving bad holograms? I can get a nice gloss with an LC light cutting pad and M205, but it leaves some light holograms. I could use D151 with that pad and leave protection in the process. I figure some very light holograms are a lot better than a hazy, highly swirled finish. I could probably do that in 1.25-1.5 hours or less.

If they are stuck on $50, I would have to go the 1-step route with D151. I don't think D301 is strong enough to do much for correction.
 
You did a great job :dblthumb2: Only 2.5 hrs is awesome

No way ,personally, I'd go less than your original price (unless you're hurting for business I guess)

What happens when it's a big SUV or something, do they still expect to pay only $50? If I were a customer I'd be tickled shitless if that was my car and I only paid $100.

EDIT: How about D300 and then a spray sealant like WGDGLS or something that could be applied very quickly?
 
g26er said:
You did a great job :dblthumb2: Only 2.5 hrs is awesome

No way ,personally, I'd go less than your original price (unless you're hurting for business I guess)

What happens when it's a big SUV or something, do they still expect to pay only $50? If I were a customer I'd be tickled shitless if that was my car and I only paid $100.

EDIT: How about D300 and then a spray sealant like WGDGLS or something that could be applied very quickly?
Click to expand...

I know that with this car there was a definite difference in gloss when I ran over with the D301. D300 by itself was a little hazy. The beauty of D301 is how easily it goes on and wipes off. I used a 6" pad for that part, as opposed to the 5" for D300, so it went fast and wiped off lightning fast.

I would be asking more like $120 for an SUV, or just spend less time with D300. I doubt they would pay $120, though. I don't think I'll ever see $100 again.

I maybe would do $80/100 for car/SUV for a lighter version of what I did. As long as I'm charging close to $40/hr for the time I spend on it. I'm not hurting for work, as I have another business for my main income, but it's just a supplement in the summer when that income dips. I never make money in the winter, and figured that, even if I take a small pay cut, this would be a way to make a few bucks to whack my car loans faster. $70-80 for two hours of work, if I could talk them into that, is better than $0. If I can pocket $25-30/hr after expenses and fit these jobs in nooks and crannies in my life, it may be worth it.

I appreciate your comment about being tickled to pay $100, but keep in mind I BLASTED over this car. This sucker had deep scratches, a nose with cracks all over, clear peeling off the rear bumper, a couple small dents, a few deep scratches. It was more about the general effect than being a "detail" job, cleaning out emblems and the fuel lid and such. I'm sure I missed some tight spots. I didn't set up my halogens or use my Brinkmann or anything. I normally charge $360 for a full exterior with a D300, polish, sealant and it looks like a show car.
 
Yeah that sounds fair, $50 for your labor and time to add at least $500 or more in value, so minimum $450 profit. Unless you are just trying to get experience or this is somebody you know, $50 is way too low. $100 per car for that level of work is still low, but if you're doing a high number of cars then it could pay off. Out of that $50 you have to pay for material, insurance, and taxes before you even see profit. This basically puts you at working for free. If you want to work for free then I could use your help! :)
 
rwright said:
Yeah that sounds fair, $50 for your labor and time to add at least $500 or more in value, so minimum $450 profit. Unless you are just trying to get experience or this is somebody you know, $50 is way too low. $100 per car for that level of work is still low, but if you're doing a high number of cars then it could pay off. Out of that $50 you have to pay for material, insurance, and taxes before you even see profit. This basically puts you at working for free. If you want to work for free then I could use your help! :)
Click to expand...

Well, I don't know about $500 in added value on this one.... check engine light was on, shocks were toast, nose was all cracked up. I think that's what made the other brother so mad about the $100.

I'm totally cool with the $100 job if I can keep it around 2.5 hours. I probably spend $4-5 in electrical, heating and lighting the garage for a few hours and running a polisher. My insurance is like $50/mo (I basically pay for having up to 2 cars a week, which is typical in the summer), so if I get 5 cars overall worst case that's $10/ea. I don't use a ton of product on a car with the MF system and ONR. Maybe $2-5, depending on the job. So, I guess up to $20 in expenses on a $100 job. $80 pretax for 2.5 hours of work is $32/hr. I'll take that for some side income. I don't put away money for taxes, as the withholdings from my wife's job cover that and we get a big refund anyway. Three child tax credits. :)

With a 1-step D151, if I can keep it at maybe 1.25 hours, I would want like $45 in my pocket after expenses, so maybe $60 charge.

I look at this like I'm still paying for my insurance whether I'm working or not. Might as well keep working or cancel my insurance and hang up the buffer for the winter.
 
I don't see how you could shave much more time off (2.5hrs) It takes me that long to wash, clay and dry :autowash:
 
Flash Gordon said:
I don't see how you could shave much more time off (2.5hrs) It takes me that long to wash, clay and dry :autowash:
Click to expand...

:)

I take about 1.5-2 hours on a retail customer's car for wash, clay/decon/dry because that includes tires/wheels/wells, and I'm really going after every speck and get tar out of wells, etc. With the dealer work, they're doing some of it themselves and this is purely paint. I did an ONR wash and used my Speedy Prep Towel with the wash water once I wiped it a couple times (and rinses the prep towel in the ONR bucket). Kind of a crude method, but I did that whole process in under 30 minutes. I would never do that with a retail customer's car!

The Speedy Prep Towel opened up possibilities. That thing is AWESOME. Cut my clay time roughly in half. Totally worth the expense.
 
Even on beater cars you are still increasing the value for them and not making anything off of a $50 job, except experience. You are putting in too much work and they are straight up taking advantage of you. You want $40 per hour but are willing to accept $50 for nearly 3 hours? Stand your ground.

Regarding your original question, the only way to cut costs on products is to buy in bulk and at a wholesale level.
 
rwright said:
Even on beater cars you are still increasing the value for them and not making anything off of a $50 job, except experience. You are putting in too much work and they are straight up taking advantage of you. You want $40 per hour but are willing to accept $50 for nearly 3 hours? Stand your ground.

Regarding your original question, the only way to cut costs on products is to buy in bulk and at a wholesale level.
Click to expand...

Sorry I wasn't clear- I thought about accepting $50 for about 75 minutes of work. That would be wash, clay, D151 and still get a little correction out of it. After thinking out loud, I figured I wouldn't take less than $60 for that, so I would still make out okay after expenses. I think I still want $90-100 for a 2-2.25 hour job involving D300/301. I took 2.75 on this Saturn and could cut off .5-.75 by spending less time with the D300 and a little less with D301. I would be working up a sweat, but it's a sprint that's totally doable.

Regarding bulk, I have D300/301 in gallons, and use ONR for washing, quick detailing, and clay lube. Pretty economical. What sucks is I keep wrecking my MF cutting pads. I start to push too hard and ruin the adhesive. Learning my lesson....

I think some of the cars they have may increase in value more substantially than this Saturn. It was a piece of you-know-what. They have a dark gray 05 Altima 3.5 I want to get my hands on, which has nice straight body panels and no rust.
 
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