Did my First polishing with porter cable xp 7424 HELP

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Newcarsmell

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So I foam/gun, used chemical guys wax strip wash, iron x and then clayed. Went in my garage to do test (2x2 feet) and this is what i did with results
I Have a 2019 mercedes AMG A45 and paint is hard

What I use
porter cable xp 7424
Swirl Remover meguiar
Scratch x 2.0 meguiar
Chemical guys mf towel
griots 5" orange foam polishing pad and 5.5" backing pad
Astro Pneumatic Tool 50SL Sunlight

1). Used swirl remover (not swirl x but regular swirl remover?) by meguiars and put dot size on each pad and spread it across with 2-3 speed. Then slow pass overlapping with med pressure on 5-6 speed side to side then up and down (total 3x each).

Did a second run and produced similar result.

Results probally took 35% of swirls and scratches.

2). Used scratch x 2.0 did the same sequence of passes and probally removed 70% of the scratches/swirl

I use the astro light to check swirl marks on the test compare to rest of the car and I like that i'm seeing results but being kind of wanting MORE FINER RESULTS

Which is why i'm here and need your expert opinions and what to do next?

Questions
1). So what can i do to get better results (like up to 90 to 100% swirl/scratch)

2). What is good percentage of swirl/scratch removal when you guys polish (i don't even know percentage lol but i can get rough idea how much has disappeared etc)

3) Since I did a total of 3 rounds with (swirl remover and scratch x 2.0), how much clear coat you think got taken off ? polish i used is not very abrasive and slowly seeing results after one another, I'm guessing not much as taken off?

I'm really itching to wax as that is fun part lol
 
This might sound a little rude, not meaning it to be, but rather on the funny side, is, "This is a 2019 MB AMG with hard paint, and after 2 attempts with different polishes, you've only removed 35% of swirls and scratches", I have to then ask, "what are you washing the car with, Steel Wool, and Scotch Bright Pads?!" LOL

I'm no expert on German Paint, but might this car have a Ceramic Clear Coat applied from the factory?

Might this Meguiars Swirl Remover be #9 in a beige bottle? I'm also not sure how good Scratch-X is, especially with a D/A machine?

I might suggest looking into using Menzerna (FG400 and 2500), or Wolfgang Polishes-Compounds (Uber and TSR). And the use of Lake Country Flat Thinpro Pads.
 
Same questions and you should look into more modern liquids.
 
lol not rude at all. But 35% removed with swirl remover from meguiar and about 70% removed with scratch x 2.0. I know scratch x 2.0 is more abrasive so probally why 70% removed. Looking to see if i can get more removed.

No ceramic coating not that I know (they want to cut cost i'm sure and not include it lol)

Thin pro pads. is this so that it will add more pressure to be more abrasive? I got Griot's Garage 10523 5.5" Orange Foam Polishing Pad (Set of 3) and it seemed bit thin but seems there is more thinner ones out there. I'll try ones I have first and if it seems results are hard then I should move onto thin ones. I'll just have to add more pressure (arm day lol)
 
I'm trying to use the least abrasive so I don't just take off clearcoat as the swirl marks are being removed . Just need more passes/rounds.

If i use a more abrasive one like you reccomend Wolfgang Polishes-Compounds or Menzerna (FG400 and 2500) which i'm thinking is more abrasive then scratch x2.0 with just one round (3-4 passes per test spots), I'm guessing time is more saved as well as product correct?

And clearcoat diminishing is same.
 
I wanted to follow up and apologize, not so much for funny comments, but because I did not give you enough information, and food for thought. Plus I was hasty in my recommendations.

But, what I first said does hold some worth. In that using good washing techniques, and good products, and towels, will help lessen such swirling damage and lessen the need of more aggressive correction to the paint and rest of the vehicle. That, and very good protectants, and making sure they are applied when needed if possible.

In all truth, I cannot, and nobody can accurately say what your vehicle's paint needs as far as polishes, compounds, pads, and their combinations to get the best results.

I will say though that you have the right basic ideas though, in that you're taking serious considerations about the removal of clear coat, which as is claimed is not much thicker than a postage stamp.

My best advice is to buy a decent number of products, and also of the various aggressiveness needed sized pads, so that you have an assortment on hand to best address different conditions of paint appearance-quality, and as well possible consideration of other vehicles you or friends-family may own.

Again, you are correct to wish to seek doing the least amount of work, and use of aggressive products, this is a paramount theme and goal. And as all will say, better to do 75% correction, than go too far, and cause irreversible damage, or grossly shorten the life of any Paint. Well cared for, there's no reason that today's paints cannot last 30-40 years, but there's many factors involved, daily driver, weather conditions, etc.

Your most important theme and cardinal rule will be the proverbial "Test Spot". Where you will experiment with different combinations of pads and products, first starting with the least aggressive, and testing if these methods and products are producing desirable results.

Mike Phillips our forum expert and host may be away at the moment, but I hope he chimes in at some point as he is also the master of linking his many great videos to help you personally. Videos where he'll explain how to do the Test Spot, and then be better able to personally judge if these products-methods are working, or to go further and experiment further, with a different polishing product and/or pad?

Of course experience is often the very best teacher, but we all had to start somewhere. With some good guidance, you will learn, and become proficient if there's a will.

I might again suggest as far as products, usually many of the very good company's products showcased here, such as many of the Palm Beach Motoring House Brands such as Pinnacle, Wolfgang, Blackfire, McKee's, and many others such as Griots Garage, Meguiars, Optimum, etc, manufacture complete care systems with a full host of various polishes and compounds, from the most aggressive to the most delicate finishing polishes.

As such, I then might suggest products from the Wolfgang Line, such as products like their Uber Compound, Total Swirl Remover, and Finishing Glaze. These three products with a variety of different pads (lets say the Lake Country Thinpro Pads of various aggressiveness) should be able to handle 95% if not more of most common correction tasks.

I used this analogy a number of times here, that if the only tool you have is a hammer, everything begins to look like a nail. That without a decent variety of polish and pad products on hand, you'll severely limit your abilities to attain the desired results you wish to achieve. That with a bit of money spent, and experimentation, you'll then learn in time basically what you'll assume you'll likely need to properly perform a correction task on any given vehicle.

Yes, one unknown quality can be paint hardness. Again, the proverbial test spot must be executed.

Hope this further helps you.
 
Good post, Mark.

I'm guessing it's fairly hard paint and I would be upping the aggression a bit with Menzerna 400, Sonax CutMax or Wolfgang Uber Compound.

Yes, clear coat is thin however even a compound won't sacrifice a significant amount, 'specially on a 2019 model.

Do a few test spots to dial in a pad/product combo before doing the entire vehicle. 3-5 slow section passes like you're doing sounds good.

And,, as Mark said, carefully wash and dry to prevent future marring.

Sent from my motorola one using Autogeekonline mobile app
 
Paul A. said:
Good post, Mark.

I'm guessing it's fairly hard paint and I would be upping the aggression a bit with Menzerna 400, Sonax CutMax or Wolfgang Uber Compound.

Yes, clear coat is thin however even a compound won't sacrifice a significant amount, 'specially on a 2019 model.

Do a few test spots to dial in a pad/product combo before doing the entire vehicle. 3-5 slow section passes like you're doing sounds good.

And,, as Mark said, carefully wash and dry to prevent future marring.

Sent from my motorola one using Autogeekonline mobile app
Click to expand...

Thanks,
That's why I was initially a bit surprised, a basically new 2019 vehicle, a German Vehicle, which they're all basically known for having hard paint, and such a top tier vehicle such as the AMG A45, which I'm sure left the factory in immaculate condition.

And as well Mercedes Dealers are generally known for better care of a customer's vehicle, not handing you the "DISO" (Dealer Installed Swirl Option) to their customers.

Thoughts going further, was it the Swirl-O-Matic Car Washes? Of course the vehicle might look pristine (dependent upon color which was never mentioned) and that swirl finder lights could possibly have you chasing your tail to re-create absolute flawless show car paint.

If a very dark color, a dark Maroon, Midnight Blue, and especially Black, then I can wholly understand seeing every little flaw.

The last Black vehicle I owned was a brand new 1994 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series which had ultra soft paint as one downside, and with that car, you could see a fingerprint 15 feet away in the right lighting. Let alone rub marks from washing, or haze-clouding from a LSP that just wasn't coming off right. (The nasty Wally World Blue Liquid Zymol comes to mind, gave all of it away)

A glaze is one option, but most will say and agree that a Glaze usually only fills and hides swirls, they don't permanently remove them.

Pictures might help, and like I mentioned earlier, perhaps some better known and trusted Correction Products and Pads on hand could help.

I have Meg's Scratch-X on hand here, bought some to deal with my father scuffing the side of the Garage Door a couple months back with his 2005 VW Touareg. Much of it was simply paint transfer, but there was some scratching, I used Scratch-X by "hand" using a 3M Trizact Pad first, and got out about 95% of the damage for him, luckily no dents.

I'm not entirely sure, but I would think Scratch-X is sort of an uncommon product to be used for full vehicle corrections. If I personally was going to choose from the Meguiars line of products, I might be more inclined to try their #105, #101, and #205 Compounds and Polishes from their Mirror Glaze Pro line-up instead.

As I said earlier, Wolfgang Uber Compound, and Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover in combination with Lake Country's White Thinpro 5.5" Pads would be a very likely place I'd start, with the TSR first, then possibly onto Uber if TSR was proving to be too mild (with the test spot). Then come back to TSR, or their Finishing Glaze to achieve the best in final gloss, again with solely white Pads. If White Pads weren't getting it, then maybe consider their Orange Pads, the next step up in aggression.

Wolfgang Uber, which doesn't get much talk anymore since it's been out for a good while is a Combo Compound with two different types of abrasives, Super Micro Fine, and Super Micro Diminishing. (SMAT and DAT) technology.

In that as you use Uber Compound, the larger clusters of abrasives break down into smaller particles, permitting a product that initially starts out working harder for you, more aggressive, removing deeper sleeks and swirls, yet as it's continued to be worked, it breaks down into a finer finishing Polish which gives outstanding results all on its own.

Of many products I've tried from here over the past 6-7 years, this is one product that I like having on hand always.

Again, I hope this helps the original poster. Keep your eyes peeled, we're probably going into a time where Autogeek will start having some really great sales with nice discounts and free shipping with low purchase minimums. And if you are in the continental USA, this might be about the best time to buy chemicals and do a correction before the wicked winter cold arrives.

Wolfgang Uber Compound, car polish, polishing compound
 
Admittedly, I'm not a poor man, but not a rich man either. I doubt in my lifetime that I'll ever be able to "Comfortably Afford" a Mercedes Benz, even a decent used one. In my old age I think I'm turning into more of a Kia-Hyundai-Toyota Corrola kind of guy. Gone are the days of Corvettes, Camaros, Trans Ams, T-Birds, expensive Luxury Cars, Bass Boats and Heavy Gas Guzzling Tow Vehicles-SUVs.

With that said, and probably unlike many members here, I haven't been able to afford and sample every last polishing product, sealant, uber expensive waxes at $50-$200 a jar, nor ultra expensive machines, vacuums, lighting, on and on.

But I've studied hard here, listened to others, read countless reviews, and came away with a smaller host of fine products, and have kept which that work, and have foregone and culled those that don't. Still, I'd bet I have more products and tools on hand than some professional detailing shops have.

Plus decades of the immense like of detailing vehicles, and wishing to learn how to make them look their best.

As for the Palm Beach House Brands sold here, and not available in any stores except for their own, I strongly doubt that you'll find a dud in any of these brands they sell. I never have. They are all exemplary products that can be relied upon and trusted to do exactly what they were designed to do.

Product lines such as Pinnacle, Wolfgang, Blackfire, McKees, all seem to have every base covered, for inside and outside tasks, pad cleaners, very vast and very complete in all respects.

As I earlier said, washing and decon are very important steps. The more careful one is, the better the results, and the less damage one will create.
 
Thank you for you thorough input. I was away with lot of work deadlines and didn't even really have time to work on my car etc. All these knowledge i'm obtaining here helps a lot and makes it more enjoyable to work. The car is actually ceritified use with around 6k miles and guess the owner just washed it without really know how to lol. I think he got some suv instead cause it was smaller car for him. But the color is white so harder to see swirls but it's definetly there. As mentioned 75% or so was removed using the porter cable and harder pressure with 5-6 passes total (slow up and down movements). I'll give the wolfgang uber and swirl remover a try and I'm guessing it will produce much better results then the scratch x 2.0 which is already almost gone from using it most of it.

As mentioned, i have the griots 5" orange foam polishing pad and 5.5" backing pad and wondering what would be the difference between this and the thinpro 5.5? I'm guessing the thinner it is, less muscle i need to put it to be more aggressive.

Other question is you, you wee focusing on the test spot to be one of the keys. So if I use scratch x 2.0 and swirl remover and removed around 75% of it .. (which i'm ok with it doesn't have to be like 90% as i'll probally polish after another 6 months perhaps, seeing how my washing technique turns out. ) I'm guessing that it didn't remove to much of the clear coat so i can continue using this test spot correct? Or should i got to another one as it will continue to eat away the clear coat if keep testing it regardless of not removing the swirls since we are working with polishes..

I think i saw mikes link few days back to regarding beginning polish so i'll have to check that as well.
 
I would say from the posts you have written in this thread, is do get yourself a good selection of the Lake Country Thinpro Pads to have on hand. (I think there's a good sale going on right now)

Not only in 5.5" size, but if you have not done so, also compliment your PC7424XP with a LC 3.5" Backing Plate, and get some LC 4" Pads as well. The White Pads from LC are good all around basic "Swirl Remover" Pads, that they are quite versatile, and can be used to good effect with various polishes-compounds, no problem.

Many moons ago, I cannot even count how many times I've waxed my vehicles with the then in the day current but now lowly and ancient Waxcoa Orbital Waxer "Jiggle Machines", and come away with jaw dropping results with a wax, both applying and removing most with the Machine.

Maybe as Mike Phillips claims as to just how good it is, grab a bottle of Blackfire AIO (All In One) Polish-Sealant, you very well might find that it does wonders like he and others have found. Just use it as a wax basically, with a soft pad, like a Black, Red or Blue LC Thinpro, use low-medium pressure, maybe 5 lbs downforce, speed 3-4 to apply, and have fun. Apply thin, and remove with good MF Towels.

After this, just apply waxes and sealants, spray detailers, don't over-obsess over minor paint conditions. It's the big ones you have to worry about.
 
Newcarsmell said:
So I foam/gun, used chemical guys wax strip wash, iron x and then clayed. Went in my garage to do test (2x2 feet) and this is what i did with results
I Have a 2019 mercedes AMG A45 and paint is hard

What I use
porter cable xp 7424
Swirl Remover meguiar
Scratch x 2.0 meguiar
Chemical guys mf towel
griots 5" orange foam polishing pad and 5.5" backing pad
Astro Pneumatic Tool 50SL Sunlight

1). Used swirl remover (not swirl x but regular swirl remover?) by meguiars and put dot size on each pad and spread it across with 2-3 speed. Then slow pass overlapping with med pressure on 5-6 speed side to side then up and down (total 3x each).

Did a second run and produced similar result.

Results probally took 35% of swirls and scratches.

2). Used scratch x 2.0 did the same sequence of passes and probally removed 70% of the scratches/swirl

I use the astro light to check swirl marks on the test compare to rest of the car and I like that i'm seeing results but being kind of wanting MORE FINER RESULTS

Which is why i'm here and need your expert opinions and what to do next?

Questions
1). So what can i do to get better results (like up to 90 to 100% swirl/scratch)

2). What is good percentage of swirl/scratch removal when you guys polish (i don't even know percentage lol but i can get rough idea how much has disappeared etc)

3) Since I did a total of 3 rounds with (swirl remover and scratch x 2.0), how much clear coat you think got taken off ? polish i used is not very abrasive and slowly seeing results after one another, I'm guessing not much as taken off?

I'm really itching to wax as that is fun part lol
Click to expand...

Sick whip, what color is it? I have 2 of those astro sun lights. I'm glad to see someone else who understands how important lighting is. I got the new multimatch 8. It's insane. You might have better results with a medium and finish polish thats made for those ceramic clear coats. depends on how bad the swirls are if you need both.
 
yes i'm getting much better in trying to perfect something that doesn't exist lol As mentioned 80% or so removal of swirl removal is fine by me in beggining stage. Later one when i get some more polishes in I can finetune things. I saw abrasive chart here Autogeek Swirl Removers & Compounds Comparison Chart
and saw the wolfgang swirl remover is much higher then the scratch x i been using. Would it be safe to say just go ahead and do scratch x 2.0 on the whole car (might need like another bottle lol) since its less abrasive and test seems its about 80% good and go about doing the wolfgang swirl 3.0 in 6? months later?

Also, i'm thinking of getting the thin pro but having the 3 griots orange pads wonder what the differences are if i were to switch. Would the thin cut more so 80% will go like 90 or not sure and trial / error.

The 3.5 backing plate and 4 inch pads are used for more tight areas im assuming like maybe door handles etc...?
 
OP, I know your frustration with MB paint being hard. I have had some good results with Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover using my PC7424 and lake country microfiber pads. I would recommend trying that if you have access to those products. I previously tried Sonax Perfect Finish and it worked but not as well as the Wolfgang TSR. Btw, my car is white. I would say I'm 90% swirl free. I have a few on the roof I can't completely remove and i've been a little lazy/busy and low on 3" pads to remove some on my lip wing thing. If you were near me in Jersey I'd be more than happy to invite you over and I'd help you out :). On my red AMG i use Griots Garage Boss creams on my Rupees w Micro Fiber pads and that combo works really really well too but that car is Red and that paint isn't as hard. What color is your car?
 
You mentioned that you have 5" pads and 5.5" backing plate. When you put on the pad on the backing plate do you cover the whole backing plate?

If not I would directly get either a smaller backing plate that suits your pads or bigger pads 6"-6.5" that covers your backing plate. You don't want to have uncovered parts of the backing plate as that's a huge disaster to happens. It's so easy to bump or angle the polisher into the paint with the backing plate uncovered. Then you get a very deep damage into the paint that you need to be repaint the panel it happens on.

I would suggest if actually your backing plate is 5.5". That you buy a 5" backing plate and 5"-5.5" pads that suits that backing plate you get. It's not so easy to know which size of the pads to get. But read carefully on the description of the pads which size of the backing plates they suits.

You asked about the test spot you have done with 2 different products and polished in 3 section passes. The results from your test spot is on the combos you have used on this one test spot. So when you do a new test spot and if you like useing Scratch X do that with one set of passes per section. And evaluate your results from it. If you are happy with the cut and also the finish you have your combo to do your whole car with. If you are satisfied with the cut but want to see if you can get a better finish. You use a finishing combo over the same test spot. And if you get satisfied with the results you repeat over the whole car these 2 steps of combo you have dialed in. If you are not satisfied with the cut and want more correction from your polishing. Then you go up in aggressiveness of your combo and do a new test spot. So the test spots is to find the combo that you repeat over the whole car when you have found your combos that you are satisfied with.

I like Sonax polishes and Menzerna and Carpro. They use the diminishing abrasives in their polishes. If you like non diminishing abrasives you have 3D and Griots Garage BOSS and Meguiars polishes that are great. But look up in the pro line up of 3D and Meguiars polishes to get the better abrasives in them. The PBMG brands of polishes seems great too. And most polishes sold on AGO and used what they is for you get great results from them.

The thinner polishing pads you get a benefit when used on free spinning DA polisher like your PC polisher. Is that you maintain the pad rotation with them much easier and gets you a more uniform results from them cause of that. No pad spinning and no polishing is done. So mark your backing plate so you easly see that your polishing pad is spinning.

And just keep asking away as that's what we do here help each other with answering as good as we can.

/ Tony
 
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