Diminishing vs. Non-Diminishing Abrasives

allenk4

allenk4

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I found this over on Sister Forum Autopia and thought it was helpful to me understanding the differences in how the two work and how to work them.

The Difference Between Diminishing and Non-Diminishing Abrasive Polishes - Autopia Forums - Auto Detailing & Car Care Discussion Forum

My question is: I was recently doing 4 passes with Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover using an orange CCS pad with medium pressure followed by two passes with almost no pressure.

When I do the last two passes, sometimes small "Peas" of polish fly out from underneath the pad. It doesn't always do it? Is this an indication that I overworked the polish?
 
allenk4 said:
I found this over on Sister Forum Autopia and thought it was helpful to me understanding the differences in how the two work and how to work them.

The Difference Between Diminishing and Non-Diminishing Abrasive Polishes - Autopia Forums - Auto Detailing & Car Care Discussion Forum

My question is: I was recently doing 4 passes with Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover using an orange CCS pad with medium pressure followed by two passes with almost no pressure.

When I do the last two passes, sometimes small "Peas" of polish fly out from underneath the pad. It doesn't always do it? Is this an indication that I overworked the polish?
Click to expand...

Dry peas or wet? I ask because the orange CCS will hold wet product in the recesses for a looooong time. Sometimes when you let up on the pressure it'll sling product out.

I've worked Menz and some other DAT products with the orange CCS and noticed after priming the pad well you have to be really careful to only add just a few drops. Whereas with the flat pad it seemed to handle adding product differently.

I'd swap the DAT product to the flat pad and try it. It at least will not hold on to the product like the CCS pad does.

You are right though in doing more pressure at first then faster speed and less pressure there at the end. If it seems like you're throwing dried product from beneath the pad make sure the panel is clean after the 4 passes, add a little product to the pad or even a spritz of water to the pad with very little product then go back for your quick higher speed passes.
 
Are you talking about little pea size drops flying out, or dust? Compound dust is common.
 
Need more info, but are you inspecting and cleaning your pad regularly?
 
Small dry balls.

Half the size of a pea.

I prime the pad and use suggested three dime sized drops of polish.

Pad Cleaning brush after each section.

Fresh pad for each panel.
 
I have had larger Chunks of dust before, but never what you said. Pics?
 
Thanks for the link to Todd's post. According to the chart (the most complete one I've seen):
http://www.autopiaforums.com/Todd-Helme/polish-chart.jpg
M101 and M105 are the same (both are 10, most aggressive) and D300 is only one step below them at 9?

I've not used any of them, but from threads here I got the impression that M105 is less aggressive than M101, and that D300 was a couple steps below M105. Any thoughts from those that have used these products? Would you place these products in different cut number categories than the chart? Might the D300 rating be including the effect of a MF cutting pad?
 
Ok noob question:

As far as DAT and SMAT, which one breaks down and which one stays the same?

So what I am asking is, which one can one give a quick spray of water to keep working it? (For the most part and generally speaking)
 
When that happens feel the pad. There should be some heat but also some moisture as well. If the pad is dry then you are overworking the pad and polish, it dries and then starts slinging.
 
allenk4 said:
When I do the last two passes, sometimes small "Peas" of polish fly out from underneath the pad. It doesn't always do it? Is this an indication that I overworked the polish?
Click to expand...

No.
Too much product and, or, your pad needs to be cleaned.
 
hernandez.art13 said:
Ok noob question:

As far as DAT and SMAT, which one breaks down and which one stays the same?

So what I am asking is, which one can one give a quick spray of water to keep working it? (For the most part and generally speaking)
Click to expand...

SMAT breaks down. It also provides a bit more cut at the VERY beginning, like first pass. Then as it breaks down you work it longer. Finally near the end it's providing very little cut, but as you 'spritz it' with water you get a bit more cut and finishing ability.

Which is why it tends to finish better than DAT products. :dblthumb2:

DAT otoh will cut more evenly, cut from the beginning to end, and isn't run through as long of a working cycle. But, can finish out much earlier.
 
cardaddy said:
SMAT breaks down. It also provides a bit more cut at the VERY beginning, like first pass. Then as it breaks down you work it longer. Finally near the end it's providing very little cut, but as you 'spritz it' with water you get a bit more cut and finishing ability.

Which is why it tends to finish better than DAT products. :dblthumb2:

DAT otoh will cut more evenly, cut from the beginning to end, and isn't run through as long of a working cycle. But, can finish out much earlier.
Click to expand...

I think you have it backwards Tony....
 
I just turn the speed down a couple of notches and the problem goes away. Working at a high speed dries the product and tosses it out then you have very little product left to finish correcting the paint. If you're settings run from 1-6 try using 4.5. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with how well it cuts and it won't through you're polish out in small clumps. Since you're using all the polish it does a nice job as well. I feel it works better at the slower speed, isn't as loud, and doesn't vibrate as much. It's just an overall more pleasant experience.
 
DAT - Diminishing Abrasive Technology
SMAT - Super Micro Abrasive Technology

You can spritz both to give you longer work times, although I find SMAT to tend to have longer work times to begin with. Not sure if this is 100% accurate for all SMAT products.
 
I'm not so sure it's the abrasive particles themselves that determine or contribute to length of "work time". The lotions and lubricants in the polish would have a greater impact I would think. This is all speculation of course. :)
 
spiralout462 said:
I'm not so sure it's the abrasive particles themselves that determine or contribute to length of "work time". The lotions and lubricants in the polish would have a greater impact I would think. This is all speculation of course. :)
Click to expand...

you are probably right hahaha
 
hernandez.art13 said:
Ok noob question:

As far as DAT and SMAT, which one breaks down and which one stays the same?

So what I am asking is, which one can one give a quick spray of water to keep working it? (For the most part and generally speaking)
Click to expand...


The link to the Autopia thread explains the difference between SMAT and DAT very well. I would start there.
 
"Any thoughts from those that have used these products? Would you place these products in different cut number categories than the chart? Might the D300 rating be including the effect of a MF cutting pad"

I have tried D300 on a variety of CCS Foam Pads and did not feel that it cut very well compared to M105 or Wolfgang Total Swirl remover.

Maybe it has something to do with the formulation being specific to microfiber pads?

Now when I am using M105, I use the D300 to prime the pad. It seems to extend the working time of the M105 by a little bit, not much though IMO.
 
smack said:
I think you have it backwards Tony....
Click to expand...

Don't think so. DAT products - while they break down - tend to provide a bit more cut at the very beginning (all things being the same RE: aggressive level of a given compound).

Back in 2012 Todd Helme posted a fairly thorough insight into just how each works, even how the quality of finishing compares one to another.
Here's the thread: The Difference Between Diminishing and Non-Diminishing Abrasive Polishes - Autopia Forums - Auto Detailing & Car Care Discussion Forum
powervstime.jpg


What is really interesting is how SMAT products provide a better finish *earlier* in the working process. Yet DAT products at the very end, eclipse them by a good bit. Which is why when you're working with SIP it'll cut in the beginning and at the end you can spritz it with a very tiny mist and really work it down to an LSP quality finish. :)
finishvstime.jpg
 
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