Dirty Gasoline

Ricorocks

Ricorocks

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Top Tier Detergent Gasoline
TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline is the premier standard for gasoline performance. Seven of the world's top automakers, BMW, General Motors, Fiat Chrysler Automobiles, Honda, Toyota, Volkswagen, Mercedes-Benz and Audi recognize that the current EPA minimum detergent requirements do not go far enough to ensure optimal engine performance.
Since the minimum additive performance standards were first established by EPA in 1995, most gasoline marketers have actually reduced the concentration level of detergent additive in their gasoline by up to 50%. As a result, the ability of a vehicle to maintain stringent Tier 2 emission standards have been hampered, leading to engine deposits which can have a big impact on in-use emissions and driver satisfaction.
These automakers have raised the bar. TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline help drivers avoid lower quality gasoline which can leave deposits on critical engine parts, which reduces engine performance. That's something both drivers and automakers want to avoid.

I've known about this for a long time now & only use 'Top Tier' gasoline. Be sure to see the 'Retailers' tab, as to who qualifies, to make the claim 'top tier'. The newest to the list was, surprise Exxon/Mobil. The brand was absent for quite along time.

See: Top Tier Gasoline
 
What is the efficacy-rating of TOP TIER Detergent
Gasolines...as in/for: not leaving deposits on critical
engine parts...for any of the aforementioned OEM's
DI engines?


Bob
 
It would be very good.

Top Tier came about quite a few years back, as it seems the car companies, were replacing engines 'under warranty' due to, lessening of detergents in gasoline, which caused sludge-ed up motors. If your auto is one of the seven, mentioned (pioneers of top tier), you will likely find a reference in your owners manual, regarding usage of top tier gas.

My Audi has a caution in the owners manual about they only recommend top tier.

Should I make a warranty claim, for a fouled engine, which needs to be replaced "under warranty", my claim could be denied, if it were determined that I used OTHER THAN RECOMMENDED.

So with the advent of top tier, fewer engines (than before top tier) are becoming sludged up, to the point requiring replacement. So the efficacy is quite good.

What's a DI engine?
 
Thanks Setec!

Bob - perhaps this will better answer you question:

Top Tier Gasoline

Gasoline is pretty much gasoline, you could get a Shell Oil tanker truck, getting gasoline from from the same refinery, that other competitors, fill there big trucks. It's at the delivery tanker truck, where the detergents are added.
 
Them chemicals help remove deposits in the combustion chamber. DI advantage is more power, better efficiency etc since the fuel is directly injected into the combustion chamber, but since the fuel no longer flows past the intake valves there will be carbon build up which will inhibit air flow unless removed.

It does not matter which gas or additive you use with the duration of the camshaft the valves will be opened and cause the build up of carbon over time. It's the nature of the beast of DI. The power and torque loss of the build up is substantial over time if not cleaned. Huge problems on Audi's, Mini's, BWM's, Mercedes, VW...

I remember reading an article to combat this problem Lexus built engines that had port fuel injection during the start up and first few minutes of run time and then the computer switched over to DI. The theory was that the port injection would allow the fuel (and additives) to flow over the valves in the beginning and help reduce deposits and promote cleaning. I have no clue if it ever went into production or solved their problem.

WTH do I know anyways. I run carbs and a distributor still!

Don't believe all of the marketing hype! I laugh when I see a gasoline "marketing" commercial.
 
FUNX650 said:
Am I to understand that you have the audacity
to actually believe this is an acceptable answer...

When you don't even know what this is?:


Boy am I still glad that AGO doesn't
charge Entertainment Tax!!


Bob
Click to expand...

:applause::applause::applause::cheers::cheers:

That gas stuff is all hogwash any way. I run regular all the time in my GC because it's DI and it lets' me. When I ran 93 octane I saw very little performance gains. I ran regular in my Xterra for 12 years and whether it was "top tier" or not, it served me well and never left me stranded in in 12 years.
 
The program is quite effective at what it does, reducing damage. This is why the program has been around for a long time & still endorsed by automobile mfg's.

Typical your bombastic posting, does not benefit anyone, should you want information beyond supplied, I suggest you use google.
 
Ricorocks said:
The program is quite effective at what it does, reducing damage. This is why the program has been around for a long time & still endorsed by automobile mfg's.

Typical your bombastic posting, does not benefit anyone, should you want information beyond supplied, I suggest you use google.
Click to expand...

Yesterday it was oil, today it's gasoline, let's get back to detailing something LOL.

Peace all.
 
This feels very spammish....aside from not selling anything. The oil post was crap too.
 
custmsprty wrote,
That gas stuff is all hogwash any way. I run regular all the time in my GC because it's DI and it lets' me. When I ran 93 octane I saw very little performance gains. I ran regular in my Xterra fro 12 years and whether it was "top tier" or not, it served me well and never left me stranded in in 12 years.
Click to expand...

Well thank you for your scientific, critique! Be sure to tell the boys at top tier, because of your experience, it's all hogwash & no longer necessary! Bravo!

A few questions if I may.

First your not well versed as regular gas has nothing to do with it.

To claim "top tier" gasoline or be recognized as such, ALL grades of gasoline sold, by the company, must contain/pass the standard for top tier. This information is clearly available at the web site.

What motivated the 7 car mfg's plus many oil companies, to look, into the problem & thrust upon consumers top tier. It's not an expense to you, two gas stations both selling top tier, are pretty much the same price.

What actually happened was they found a trend in order to save money, of knowingly reducing 'detergents' in gasoline (even below, the mandate set by the EPA), this ultimately made the problem worse. By complying with top tier standards, the EPA's mandate is/was satisfied, plus the problem was put off, for more miles.

So perhaps you were using top tier (regular) & were unaware?
 
Or perhaps I didn't care. I'm outa this thread it's going no where. Later dude.
 
custmsprty said:
Or perhaps I didn't care. I'm outa this thread it's going no where. Later dude.
Click to expand...

I didn't look at the links, but you can never tell what you are getting at the gas station. Different oil companies use different sourcing methods in different regions. Buying a particular brand of gas isn't guaranteeing you anything.

This is another one of those things, gasoline, motor oil, (trying to think of some others) where no one can ever prove that one product is better than another, if I run a motor oil and my car goes for 250K miles and you run a different oil and ur motor blows at 100K, is it even the same make/model car, did we drive it the same way, is it random, etc.

By the time the "experiment" is over it's 10 years later and the cars and oil are all changed, so what's the point. Back decades ago some oil companies used to do testing in taxi fleets which racked up huge miles so it was a little more evidentiary.

Even if you want to compare UOA's on BITOG, no one can prove that a "bad" UOA is going to cause an engine failure in x miles. As far as gas, if I carbon foul my engine and you don't, is it because of the route I take to work, is it because I let my car warm up for 15 minutes before I drive it?

Oh, and I had to roll my eyes about some earlier posts that I thought were talking about intake fouling on DI engines, unless that's from the PCV or EGR.
 
Setec,

It wasn't the oil companies that brought this about (top tier), it was the consortium of car companies, all suffering a similar problem, with that clout they set up standards. Which oil companies slowly adopted. Keep in mind the Environmental Protection Agency EPA, has a mandate for detergents in gasoline. It was money that caused, detergents, to go below guidelines, it was money that car companies wished to avoid paying, warranty work, that top tier came into existence

Top tier has gone from version one to version 2, setting the bar higher.

If it doesn't work why then?
 
Ricorocks said:
It wasn't the oil companies that brought this about (top tier), it was the consortium of car companies, all suffering a similar problem
Click to expand...

Ok, I went to that website, and I see no info on who "Top Tier" is, there are no credible specs, participants, etc. From the looks of it, the site is a marketing propaganda site for a company that makes gasoline detergent, and wants to convince you to buy more of it.

PS Looking into it, that website is owned by a test lab...hmm...do you think they test gasoline to see if it meets the "Top Tier" standard? If "Top Tier" is from a consortium of car companies, why is it that they don't have a name, why don't they own the website, etc? I think you are just being fed a bunch of marketing BS.
 
Setec - It was a collaboration (joint effort) by the 7 auto companies listed, in post #1.

Now I've gone to the car & got the owner manual page 222

"Fuel Recommendation
The fuel recommended for your vehicle is un-leaded premium graded gasoline. Audi recommends using TOP TIER Detergent gasoline with a minimum octane rating of 91 AKI (95 RON). For more information on TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline, please go to the official website (www.toptiergas.com)."
Click to expand...

Did you see the retailer who meet the standard or are certified top tier?
 
Ricorocks said:
Setec - It was a collaboration (joint effort) by the 7 auto companies listed, in post #1.
Click to expand...

Yes, I see no evidence of any documented group, specifications, review process, etc. that would indicate this is a real industry standards group. I see a lot of marketing buzzwords, but I see no connection to any actual organization. If there is such an organization, why doesn't it have a name, a website, etc.? Why is the Top Tier website owned by this company? : The Savant Group: A World of Lubrication Understanding
 
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