Do I need to use paint cleanser after polishing?

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timemaker

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Hi guys, a noob here.
I am kinda confused. My work plan:
1. Wash
2. Clay
3. Megs UC - M205
4. P21S paintwork cleanser
5. Sealant.
Is step no 4 necessary? I thought it was done to clean the remaining or leftover polish and also add some gloss (p21s has some fillers I suppose). But after reading some suggestions here, some said that it would be unnecessary since the compound and the polish would have already removed remaining wax. Any suggestions guys?
 
the answer is yes and no

after wiping off the 205, the paint will have polishing oils remaining on it, which can hide any remaining swirls and affect the durability of your sealant. You can wash the car at this point or use a product to wipe off the oils (griots pre wax cleanser comes to mind). It's a spray so much easier to apply and remove (after all that polishing, you'll want easier, trust me).

The paintwork cleanser will also do it but is a bit of overkill imo. I'd save that for prepping the paint for a new wax/sealant when you aren't polishing.

All that said, I've put on my lsp (collinite 845) without wiping polishing oils off a car before.

The wipedown to get squeaky clean paint is mainly for sealants and to ensure maximum durability from the product.
 
If you have used UC / M205, you do not need to use the P21s paint cleaner.
 
As the other guys stated not really.

Whether I need to or not I always wash the surface after polishing. My feeling is the residue left behind from the polishing stage can't help the next product, especially a sealant. I like to be sure the surface is clean so a quick wash and dry or a wipe down with something like Klean Strip Prep-All makes me feel a whole lot better. :props:
 
Okay. Thanks a bunch guys. I guess ill do a quick wash. Seems a better option :D
 
Car Pro's Eraser is the ideal paint cleaner after polishing. Unlike alcohol, it does not flash and wipes on and off like butter.
 
Depending on the LSP I decided to use, sometimes I will use a paint cleaner even after polishing and doing a wipedown with Eraser. For example if I am using UPGP I always go over the vehicle with Ultima Paint Prep Plus. Same thing when I use Swissvax, I always use cleaner fluid before hand, even if I already did a full correction. I'm not sure if it benefits, but I get very long durability out of all the LSP's I use, and the way I look at it, it can't hurt to use two products that were made to work together.
 
timemaker said:
Hi guys, a noob here.
I am kinda confused. My work plan:
1. Wash
2. Clay
3. Megs UC - M205
4. P21S paintwork cleanser
5. Sealant.

Is step no 4 necessary?
Click to expand...

No. It would be redundant. P21S is a non-abrasive paint cleaner or pre-wax cleaner. M205 is a Fine Cut Polish. The M205 will both remove below surface defects and clean the surface of the paint, so there's no need to use a paint cleaner after using a fine cut polish.

As for removing any polishing residue that's personal preference. You could wipe them off carefully with a microfiber towel.

You could wipe them off carefully using a spray detailer.

You could apply your choice of wax or paint sealant and the act of applying and then wiping off the wax or paint sealant will in and of itself act to also remove any trace polishing residues.

You could wash the car with a quality car wash or a detergent wash and this will or should remove any polishing residue.

You could chemically strip the paint using a product made for stripping paint or other commonly used product like IPA or MS

What you do depends upon how AR you want to get and your own personal preferences and beliefs about how important it is to get the surface clean in order for the "protection ingredients" in the LSP of your choice to bond to the surface.

Here's a few related articles...


The benefits of a light paint cleaner, cleansing lotion or pre-wax cleaner

How to Mix IPA for Inspecting Correction Results

Miscible and Immiscible - Wax and Paint Sealant Bonding


For most of history of man as it relates to washing and waxing a car, people would wipe the polish off and then apply the wax and then move on with life. You can make washing and waxing your car as simple as possible or as complicated as possible, on discussion forums the trend is usually the latter...

:)
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
No. It would be redundant. P21S is a non-abrasive paint cleaner or pre-wax cleaner. M205 is a Fine Cut Polish. The M205 will both remove below surface defects and clean the surface of the paint, so there's no need to use a paint cleaner after using a fine cut polish.

As for removing any polishing residue that's personal preference. You could wipe them off carefully with a microfiber towel.

You could wipe them off carefully using a spray detailer.

You could apply your choice of wax or paint sealant and the act of applying and then wiping off the wax or paint sealant will in and of itself act to also remove any trace polishing residues.

You could wash the car with a quality car wash or a detergent wash and this will or should remove any polishing residue.

You could chemically strip the paint using a product made for stripping paint or other commonly used product like IPA or MS

What you do depends upon how AR you want to get and your own personal preferences and beliefs about how important it is to get the surface clean in order for the "protection ingredients" in the LSP of your choice to bond to the surface.

Here's a few related articles...


The benefits of a light paint cleaner, cleansing lotion or pre-wax cleaner

How to Mix IPA for Inspecting Correction Results

Miscible and Immiscible - Wax and Paint Sealant Bonding


For most of history of man as it relates to washing and waxing a car, people would wipe the polish off and then apply the wax and then move on with life. You can make washing and waxing your car as simple as possible or as complicated as possible, on discussion forums the trend is usually the latter...

:)
Click to expand...

It's not redundant if it extends the durability of the lsp as in my example. Just my .02

Sent from my HTC Thunderbolt using Tapatalk.
 
Like Mike has said in the past - he has never came out the next morning and found that all the wax has fell off the car and in a pile on the ground. For durability personal use I have found most OCD members will re-apply LSP before needed anyway. On customers cars if it lasted forever they wouldn't need us but once.
 
Flannigan said:
It's not redundant if it extends the durability of the lsp as in my example. Just my .02
Click to expand...


Flannigan said:
sometimes I will use a paint cleaner even after polishing and doing a wipedown with Eraser.
Click to expand...



I don't disagree with your procedure because I'm a big fan of finding products and procedures that work for you and then using them...


I thought the entire idea behind maximizing the durability of an LSP was to maximize the bonding of the protection ingredients to the surface of the paint?

So what I've seen people get all emotional over on this topic was stripping the paint of any polishing oils or lubricating agents or fillers so the surface is completely clean and free of any ingredient that would interfere with the bonding of the protection ingredients.

If that's the case, then wouldn't the polishing oils, or agents or lubricating oils in the P21S also have to be chemically stripped before application of the LSP?

Me personally, I don't like to make any process more complicated than it has to be and I explained thoroughly my take on this topic in my article,

Miscible and Immiscible - Wax and Paint Sealant Bonding

And that is to follow the manufacturer's recommendations.



:xyxthumbs:
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
I don't disagree with your procedure because I'm a big fan of finding products and procedures that work for you and then using them...


I thought the entire idea behind maximizing the durability of an LSP was to maximize the bonding of the protection ingredients to the surface of the paint?

So what I've seen people get all emotional over on this topic was stripping the paint of any polishing oils or lubricating agents or fillers so the surface is completely clean and free of any ingredient that would interfere with the bonding of the protection ingredients.

If that's the case, then wouldn't the polishing oils, or agents or lubricating oils in the P21S also have to be chemically stripped before application of the LSP?

Me personally, I don't like to make any process more complicated than it has to be and I explained thoroughly my take on this topic in my article,

Miscible and Immiscible - Wax and Paint Sealant Bonding

And that is to follow the manufacturer's recommendations.



:xyxthumbs:
Click to expand...
When doing a wipedown prior to a paint cleaner, that is to check my work and make sure nothing was being filled, not to prep for the LSP. the cleaner will prep for the LSP. The way I look at it if Ultima designed UPPP to work with UPGP its ok to use without a wipedown in between. All I know if I always see customers with LSP still there far past the advertised durability of that product. The only reason I can see for that is my extra step.
 
Flannigan said:
The way I look at it if Ultima designed UPPP to work with UPGP its ok to use without a wipedown in between.
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Exactly, and you make my point in my article,

Miscible and Immiscible - Wax and Paint Sealant Bonding

Here's an excerpt...

Mike Phillips said:
So unless a manufacturer specifically states or recommends that an automotive paint finish must be stripped clean for their wax or paint sealant to properly bond or adhere, then I think it's safe to say that the chemist behind the brand has created their wax and paint sealant formulas to use the same miscible oils, (or other miscible substances), in their surface prep products to aid in the bonding or adhering of the protection ingredients used in their waxes and/or paint sealants to paint.

This would be called, Synergistic Chemical Compatibility.
Click to expand...


That's also in keeping with not making washing and waxing a car rocket science...

:dblthumb2:
 
Flannigan said:
All I know if I always see customers with LSP still there far past the advertised durability of that product. The only reason I can see for that is my extra step.
Click to expand...

If any LSP didn't last beyond their advertised durability then it would no longer have a place in my arsenal. :buffing:
 
2old2change said:
If any LSP didn't last beyond their advertised durability then it would no longer have a place in my arsenal. :buffing:
Click to expand...
Um, what? Why wouldn't you want to get great durability out of an LSP for your customer?
 
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Flannigan said:
That really doesn't make much sense, at least to me...
Click to expand...

Let me explain my post. If a Lsp producer finds their product has a life span of say six months then their ADVERTISED durability would most likely IMO would be in the 3-4 month range which leaves them some wiggle room as one might claim. For a example on a non detailing item when a product has a weight limit of 500 lbs , it is most likely the item has been tested to well over that limit to cover the producers a**. I think you will find the same with most consumer products including LSP's. You think your procedure is what is responsible for the longevity of your LSP application and you are entitled to your opinions as are others who think it is not always a necessary step.
 
2old2change said:
Let me explain my post. If a Lsp producer finds their product has a life span of say six months then their ADVERTISED durability would most likely IMO would be in the 3-4 month range which leaves them some wiggle room as one might claim. For a example on a non detailing item when a product has a weight limit of 500 lbs , it is most likely the item has been tested to well over that limit to cover the producers a**. I think you will find the same with most consumer products including LSP's. You think your procedure is what is responsible for the longevity of your LSP application and you are entitled to your opinions as are others who think it is not always a necessary step.
Click to expand...
You said if it outlasted it's advertised durability it wouldn't have a place in your arsenal, this didn't answer that question at all.

Also, it depends on how an LSP is cared for. If you take good care of your vehicle and it doesn't stay outside, and the surface was propperly prepped, it will surely last longer than advertised. If you just slap it on a car you washed and sit it outside 24/7 it won't.
 
Ok, so I just want to make sure I understand this correctly.

If you DO clay, you should:
-Wash
-Dry
-Clay
-Compound (if necessary)
-Polish
-Wax (because a pre wax cleaner isn't necessary as the polish does that?)

And if you DON'T clay:
-Wash
-Dry
-Pre-wax cleaner (just purchased the Griot's)
-Wax

Is that correct? I just want to make sure I get it right lol. Also what is a simple polish by hand? Is SwirlX considered too much by hand? I prefer Meguiar's but whatever you guys can suggest as an easy to use Polish by hand would be awesome. Thanks!
 
I do get great durability from my LSP on customers cars and don't prescribe to the therory of always doing a wipe-down. You are entitled to your opinion as well but I was offering mine in reference to the original posters question.In his case IMO it was not necessary.
 
CASH XRS said:
Ok, so I just want to make sure I understand this correctly.

If you DO clay, you should:
-Wash
-Dry
-Clay
-Compound (if necessary)
-Polish
-Wax (because a pre wax cleaner isn't necessary as the polish does that?)

And if you DON'T clay:
-Wash
-Dry
-Pre-wax cleaner (just purchased the Griot's)
-Wax

Is that correct? I just want to make sure I get it right lol. Also what is a simple polish by hand? Is SwirlX considered too much by hand? I prefer Meguiar's but whatever you guys can suggest as an easy to use Polish by hand would be awesome. Thanks!
Click to expand...

Has nothing to do with clay. Any time I take a machine to my paint, I make it a point to clay first. Your top sequence is correct. The bottom sequence should include claying as well imo.

Polishing by hand won't really clean your paint as well as by machine. If you have the GG6, then why are you wanting to polish by hand anyhow?
 
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