Do you Pre-Soak : Pre-Foam and Why

[chefwong]

In honor of **beating the cold thread.....

I only use the HP washer to knock off the big stuff from either a salt crusted car or just if the car has been driven in rain, etc and it's filthy from road film during the warmer months

I have not found no amount of dwelling, pre-soaking, extended water soaking to help with ultimately the -mechanical agitation- needed to remove road film regardless
I pre-foam not cause it helps the car get cleaner, but just extra lubricity for the times I need it *mainly cold winter washers and getting the crud off* and extend the washing time.
I don't pre-foam March-November ever . I do use the HP during the warmer months for wheels and a pre rinse knock off.

I have the week off. Daily drivers are filthy.
No snow melt in the way but the roads are trashed with salt everywhere. And of course everywhere I go where -tires- have not made contact with the snow to kick it around, there are -puddles- of salt everywhere where there is noting making contact on it......I know it's pointless to wash, as the salt dust will make the car just as dirty, but I'm washing the daily today anyhow....

For those who have winter conditions or just in general consensus, do you pre-foam, pre-dwell, pre (traffic lane cleaner) the paint, etc and Why.
In a ideal world I want a complete touchless wash routine but ultimately in my testing, it will need a mechanical wash at the end of the day

Granted, water plays a huge role in how soap: TFR: foam: pre-soak products work. My experience with X shampoo may be totally different than someone else IME just due to water. I've left a salted car outside in a Noreaster rain that rained for 36+ hrs straight. Then a HP rinse...
IME, even the -long H20- soak did not make much of a difference IME even with the HP rinse afterwards...

 

[briarpatch]

Re: Do you Pre-Soak : Pre-Rinse and Why

For very dirty vehicles....I pre-soak, and here's why:

Does SNOW FOAM do ANYTHING? | Touchless V Autofoam V PH Neutral V Water - YouTube

 

[CleanIT]

I would look at Bilt Hamber AF/Touchless. Two standout products.

Many/most of all the snow foam/presoak products are a joke and for those that love foam. They don't do much of anything.

Here is a good video of Optimum Power Clean used as a presoak.

OPTIMUM POWER CLEAN قوة منتج - YouTube

 

[chefwong]

I have considered -trying- BH Touchless.......even though I swore off buying pre-soaks


But I have imported/spent way too much money on the other raging pre-soaks discussed over at DW.uk
And for what the intended use was, IMO, road film still remained or rain driven cars after a pre-soak/ HP rinse
On salty crusty cars, I did not notice that much of a difference between just water HP rinse and what remained on the panel vs. those highly touted pre soaks I've imported followed by a HP rinse.

When I foam, I am not expecting it to help me -clean debris panel-. Just adding lubricity and working time to clean dirty panels...
IMO, foam is also a hotmess on the drive floor to rinse away too ;/

 

[opie2]

On salty crusty cars, I did not notice that much of a difference between just water HP rinse and what remained on the panel vs. those highly touted pre soaks I've imported followed by a HP rinse.

I can tell you that without a doubt, using bh touchless as a presoak dry at the coin op, that once i get home after spraying it off that the black buick looks clean, no saltlines no road film lines.

Mind you, the water behavior is not retsored to 100% because that would require a hand wash...but still. Ita the only one i have found so far that completely does the job asked of it.

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[chefwong]

Are you also using Coin Op Shampoo to spray and rinse. AFAIK, anything commercial in general needs to be -strong- for it's intended market

I've had BH in my cart but have hemmed and hawed on it it, bearing my other experience with those -uk- pre wash soak products....

 

[opie2]

Are you also using Coin Op Shampoo to spray and rinse. AFAIK, anything commercial in general needs to be -strong- for it's intended market

I've had BH in my cart but have hemmed and hawed on it it, bearing my other experience with those -uk- pre wash soak products....

No sir, just spray the car down while its dry with bh touchless, then spray it off using only the high pressure rinse. Thats all Unless it's nice enough or I have access to a garage I will take it home and do a rinseless

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[Coatingsarecrack]

I have considered -trying- BH Touchless.......even though I swore off buying pre-soaks

But I have imported/spent way too much money on the other raging pre-soaks discussed over at DW.uk
And for what the intended use was, IMO, road film still remained or rain driven cars after a pre-soak/ HP rinse
On salty crusty cars, I did not notice that much of a difference between just water HP rinse and what remained on the panel vs. those highly touted pre soaks I've imported followed by a HP rinse.

When I foam, I am not expecting it to help me -clean debris panel-. Just adding lubricity and working time to clean dirty panels...
IMO, foam is also a hotmess on the drive floor to rinse away too ;/

1 guess on what side was pretreated with Bilt Hamber

It has to do with Cleaning power but really the PH. Alkaline and citrus cleaners will cut TF.

PH Neutral soaps, I believe do soften the grime and make it easier to remove in a mechanical wash. I still PW off and the re foam and continue with bucket wash.

I haven’t found much that works as well as BHAF. Touchless is a VERY close second.


These four pics are before and after. All pretreated to dry car and let dwell for 5 mins then PW off.

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[CleanIT]

1 guess on what side was pretreated with Bilt Hamber

It has to do with Cleaning power but really the PH. Alkaline and citrus cleaners will cut TF.

PH Neutral soaps, I believe do soften the grime and make it easier to remove in a mechanical wash. I still PW off and the re foam and continue with bucket wash.

I haven’t found much that works as well as BHAF. Touchless is a VERY close second.


These four pics are before and after. All pretreated to dry car and let dwell for 5 mins then PW off.

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Would you recommend AF over the Touchless?

 

[briarpatch]

Would you recommend AF over the Touchless?

As I understand it.....AutoFoam needs to be removed with a pressure washer...Touchless can be removed with a garden hose....not sure if that factors into your decision. Hopefully, Amazon will be on time and I'll have Touchless waiting for me when I get home. Truck is pretty dirty right now, and I'm looking forward to trying it out.

 

[chefwong]

Thx for the feedback. Probably will stop the hem-hawing at the BH when the next coupon comes up at -that vendor place-.

I washed 3 dailys today. Used up some of the Avalanch and did a quick test as well. On the windhshield, as I did the post rinse bucket wash, I must have missed a spot - you can clearly see road film leftover where I did no make mechanical contact.

I think once I have the BH touchless on hand, I plan to pre foam 3 sections...2 of them is the existing preform I have and the other will be BH
Would be interesting to see all through looking out -clear windshield - to observe how much *road film* is leftover

 

[BudgetPlan1]

Back when I drove 80 miles a day on freeway, I would foam as a pre-soak. Now that commute is down to 8 miles a day, no need to presoak...the 'traffic film' (aka 'dirt') comes of fine w/ just a bucket wash. Tried a few different high/low ph washes/presoaks and such, was really kinda pointless for my situation. No need to over-do it...

 

[Coatingsarecrack]

Would you recommend AF over the Touchless?

I like it better for winter grime. Touchless does well tho.

But here is the thing when anyone gives their opinion . It is definitely based on their scenario.

What is the temp? How much snow/rain? What is in the sludge we whip up from the ground contain? Air contamination? We can even get into what type of fuel is mostly used and what additives do the gas company around us add.

So many different conditions is why some will absolutely love one product and others think their crazy is because of our experiences or conditions.

I say a 5 min dwell but what if I wasn’t precise and it was almost 8?


My recommendation is to try both. They both perform well and some like Touchless as well or better.
John from Forensics got better results with Touchless in his head to head video, I got opposite results.

but he’s in a whole ‘nother part of the world. With different conditions.



2 things to remember AF has to be PW off. With touchless PW is recommended but hose is ok on strongest settling.

AF has a higher pH (13/14 AF 12 TL)So in case of LSP degradation lower is better.


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[DanaDetailingPros]

Cracks pictures show a perfect point. Why not!

 

[opie2]

2 things to remember AF has to be PW off. With touchless PW is recommended but hose is ok on strongest settling.
AF has a higher pH (13/14 AF 12 TL)So in case of LSP degradation lower is better.
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Being able to use a garden hose with touchless is exactly the reason i went withthouchless over af.

At some point i will try af to make my own assesment of which is better for the conditiins in which i reside. I will say though, for me touchless has truely blown me away at how well it just melts off not on debris but cutting right thru road film and salt/brine.

Ive only tried it on vehicles protected with pure evo and cancoat evo. Cant say how it well the end results might be if your vehicle was unprotected.

After a presoak then high pressure rinse...the winner of self cleaning ability and water behavor as expected pure evo took the win.

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[chefwong]

oke:oke:

Went full circle on this thread and now have to revisit this topic 360 .....as the current fleet is fully ppf'ed - and there are alot of *don't use this disclaimers* on what chems, etc can go on PPF. I have sparingly done spot cleaning of it at times with stuff I should not like (tar remover, or a lower body high ph pre-rinse) but not in the context of full blown *high ph*, let it dwell / rinseoff

 

[Paul A.]

Your original question got me thinking.

For extremely dirty client vehicles i do a "pre" wash i.e. a quick foam and degreaser. I let it dwell a bit in hopes of breaking the bond dirt and road film has on the paint. I then rinse (no contact yet) and follow that up with a second foam and mitt contact wash.

I find it is effective at removing most of the heavier dirt and grime before the more thorough mitt wash.

I don't normally do a pre wash/rinse on most clients as they arrive only mildly dirty.

 

[Flash Gordon]

No. Why should I?

 

[opie2]

Ive thus far ditched the carpro descale for labocosmetica purifica. It works great. I can mix it to whatever ratio i may need in a pump sprayer and after i presoak/pw off my high alkaline i spray onto paint and then move right into my rinseless wash.

The great part is there is no staining if it drys on the surface before i get to it.

Might have to get gallon of that and primus while on sale

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[Setec Astronomy]

Ive thus far ditched the carpro descale for labocosmetica purifica. It works great. I can mix it to whatever ratio i may need in a pump sprayer and after i presoak/pw off my high alkaline i spray onto paint and then move right into my rinseless wash.

Wait--you don't rinse of the Purifica? You take it off with the rinseless wash?