Does removing swirls remove cars paint?

Dan_335i

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My moms white honda crv has a ton of swirls

We never really cared much about the car. Ever since i got my car i got into detailing. My moms car has a ton of swirls. I was wondering if i use porter cable and wolfgang swirl remover to remove swirls is there a chance to removing some of the cars paint?
 
My moms white honda crv has a ton of swirls

We never really cared much about the car. Ever since i got my car i got into detailing. My moms car has a ton of swirls. I was wondering if i use porter cable and wolfgang swirl remover to remove swirls is there a chance to removing some of the cars paint?

Welcome to the forum first and foremost!

Here is the perfect article for you:

What it means to remove swirls, scratches and water spots out of automotive clear coats

One of the most common problems people want to solve when it comes to improving the appearance of their car's finish is to remove swirls, scratches and water spot etchings out of their car's clear coat finish.


Below Photographs Courtesy of MeguiarsOnline.com


Swirls
swirl-art.jpg
swirlsinthepaint.jpg



Scratches
scratch-art.jpg
scratchesinpaint.jpg



Water Spots
water-spots-art.jpg
WaterSpotEtching3.jpg



In order to remove any type of below surface defect out of a clear coat finish you need to carefully remove small amounts of paint surrounding the defect, (or defects), until the surface is uniformly level or flat. Of course some defects may be too deep to remove safely and in these situations you can often time improve the defect but not completely remove the defect.

In other words, in order to remove a scratch out of an automotive clear coat you must remove enough paint surrounding the scratch until the upper most portions of the surface are level with or equal to the lowest depths of the scratch or defect you're trying to remove.


Does that make sense?


The idea being, you don't really remove a scratch, you remove the paint surrounding a scratch.


The problem with removing below surface defects like swirls and scratches is whether or not you have enough film-build or paint thickness to safely remove the defect completely without going through the clear coat and exposing the basecoat also called color coat. Generally speaking, factory clear coats are thin so you need to be careful and take the cautious approach of using the least aggressive product to get the job done.

If you remove too much paint and expose the underlying color coat the only way to fix the problem is to have the affected area repainted. The color coat is usually dull as it gets its gloss from the clear layer of paint.


Products Mentioned
Swirl Removers, Compounds and Polishes
Buffers, Polishers and Pads
Applicator pads for working by hand


Further Reading
Tips & Techniques for using the Porter Cable 7424XP
The Final Wipe
2008 Lexus IS 250 - Pinnacle Detail


Resources
Autogeek Online Detailing Forum
Autogeek Online Store
 
Yes, anytime you compound or polish paint, you remove some. The amount varies depending on how aggressive you get with it.

There is no way around removing paint, short of application of a glaze to fill the swirls. They will be back in a few short weeks though.

I'd recommend reading some articles here on this site, to see what you're really getting into.

If you have a Porter cable da type polisher, its safe to say you shouldn't create any more damage or problems. Do your own due diligence, to make sure you understand what you're getting into before jumping right in.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using AG Online
 
Maybe I can clear it up. When some people talk about "removing paint", they are talking about the colored stuff - to expose the metal. But, here, when we talk about "removing paint", we are talking about the clear coat on top of the colored stuff. Clear coat is "paint" - but it's clear.

So, correcting swirls will remove some paint - but not the paint most people think of. That paint is safe under the clear coat. You will remove a small amount of clear coat if done correctly.
 
Maybe I can clear it up. When some people talk about "removing paint", they are talking about the colored stuff - to expose the metal. But, here, when we talk about "removing paint", we are talking about the clear coat on top of the colored stuff. Clear coat is "paint" - but it's clear.

So, correcting swirls will remove some paint - but not the paint most people think of. That paint is safe under the clear coat. You will remove a small amount of clear coat if done correctly.

Good move! I should have specified! Merry Christmas!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using AG Online
 
Oh so swirls are on the clear coat. What happens if i actually buffed to much and expose the cars actual paint? How do i get the clear coat back?

And how do swirls appear?
 
Oh so swirls are on the clear coat. What happens if i actually buffed to much and expose the cars actual paint? How do i get the clear coat back?

And how do swirls appear?
you would have to get clear coat added back on. swirls are found through improper washing. Would anybody post mikes swirl and squirrel article?
 
View attachment 24235

View attachment 24236

View attachment 24237When I did my Tahoe last year with the PC, a white Flat LC 5.5" Pad, and the Wolfgang twins, I went carefully, and tried to tread as lightly as possible. (Iron-X and Claying was done beforehand)

After a sample 4 section passes, things were looking better, but not quite getting a cigar for my efforts. Thus, another 4 section passes were done with WG TSR, and then things were looking very nice!

But, I was noting quite a bit of heat on the paint surface, and this had me a bit concerned. I was thinking of Mike P's prescribed "15 lbs of pressure" on the machine, and noted that too much, as well as too little killed rotation of the pad, I had to find a happy medium, and perhaps as Mike has said, 10-15 lbs of downforce pressure seems optimal.

Again, the heat I felt on the paint surface had me a bit worried? Is this to be expected? Is it common? That no matter what type of paint you'll be correcting for swirls, and RIDS, is this then to be expected?

I of course knew well to be as gentle to the paint as possible, even though the paint was very nice, it was also 16 years old, and wanted to do the least harm possible to get the job done correctly.

As I close, the paint came out magnificent! The paint was totally swirl-scratch free, looking like the day I had taken delivery of this SUV.
Mark
 
Yes...paint is ruined if you polish it.. Don't do it.


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A BMW may have 50-70 microns of clear coat (roughly). If you polish it correctly (which isn't hard to do if you buy the right tools), you will only remove A FEW microns of clear coat. That's just the clear coat, not the color coat (colored paint) underneath - or the primer. That is also likely around 40-50 microns or more (roughly). So in the scheme of things , your only removing maybe ~3% (roughly) of your total "paint".

If you were to do something crazy and go through your clear coat (difficult to do by accident) with a PC and foam pads - yes, you would have to get that panel repainted for a proper repair. You can't really just "add clear coat" and expect a factory like look and result. However, that never stopped people from trying it.

If you learn how to do it properly and the paint is healthy the risk is approaching nil. There is a device called a Paint Thickness Gauge many of us own that can measure the total thickness of your paint to give you an IDEA of how much clear coat you have to play with.

However, if the car has never been polished, it's probably not necessary. If you don't know the history of the car, I'm sure someone in your area can help.
 
^^^ my way of saying use the search button.. If op did any type of search he'd realize his question was...we'll you figure it out. If I put wax on my car will it fall apart? I mean c'mon
 
Oh so swirls are on the clear coat. What happens if i actually buffed to much and expose the cars actual paint? How do i get the clear coat back?

And how do swirls appear?

Buffing with a machine like the PC or GG you'd have to try and try and try to get through the clear. Notice I said "buffing". If you are sanding you can get through it in under a minute, in certain places. But with a buffing compound, or swirl remover, and even as much cut as an orange pad..... you'll likely never do any real harm to the paint as long as you have anything even close to decent procedure along the way.
 
^^^ my way of saying use the search button.. If op did any type of search he'd realize his question was...we'll you figure it out. If I put wax on my car will it fall apart? I mean c'mon

Search functions on forums are often useless if you don't know exactly what you are looking for. On this forum, for example, it does NOT search phrases.

That means "Does polishing remove clearcoat" would;

omit 'does'

search all threads with the word 'polishing'
search all threads with the word 'remove'
and search all threads with the word 'clearcoat'.

It will NOT search only threads with all THREE words.

By searching that at this moment, you'll find a thread about a car damaged by buffing. Well, actually- it was damaged by an incompotent body shop using a rotary buffer and wool pad. But how would a newbie understand the difference between a rotary with an aggressive wool pad, and the 'newbie friendly', safe techniques taught on this forum?

The next thread is a 'which buffer is best for me' thread, followed by threads relating to everything from orange peel to wax. Best part? This thread doesn't even appear on the whole first PAGE of search results when searching 'Does polishing remove clearcoat', despite that being the subject- two pages worth- of this thread.

Someone who KNOWS what they are looking for will be able to find good information. But a complete newbie wouldn't know what information to toss to the side and what to take in. Searching opens the floodgates to a TON of information that the OP doesn't need.

Granted, topics like this are covered by reading Mike's book, searching the forums, and just browsing/skimming the forums. But here's the thing- sometimes you don't know what's 'common knowledge'. Like having some weird issue with your car that you've never heard of before- you post it on a forum, only to be ridiculed because it turns out to be a 'common problem' and the forum is full of threads (or, more likely, full of dozens of threads you have to search through that have ZERO information and just end with 'use search', so you never actually DO find the information through search).

Not trying to offend or attack or anything; so please don't take it that way. But responses like that aren't helpful, and the basic answer to the question (Polishing removes some amount of clearcoat paint, how much it removes is dependant on the type of tool, pad, and polish or compound) is actually not really any longer or more difficult than your two responses you found the time to give!

OP; I hope you find the answers to your questions. I WOULD suggest searching and skimming the forums, reading Mike Phillips' articles and even picking up a copy of his book. But of course- you probably didn't know there as a guy named Mike Phillips who had tons of articles right here on this forum until you joined this forum and someone told you! So there ya go!
 
My moms white honda crv has a ton of swirls
My moms car has a ton of swirls.
We never really cared much about the car.

Ever since i got my car i got into detailing.

I was wondering if i use porter cable and wolfgang swirl remover to remove swirls

is there a chance to removing some of the cars paint?
Quite often: "New-to-detailing-converts" will come in to auto-detailing forums with paint that needs polishing...
some of which they deemed to be serious...and they have concerns:
especially when considering the amount of talk that goes on about CC-failure/burnthrough/etc.

So it is no wonder that Re: "Does removing swirls remove cars paint"? is a question that pops up every so often.
Why this is to the dismay of some folks should be left to discussion in another thread...IMHO.


But of course...In the process of "removing swirls" there will be some paint removed.
And that'll be: some Clear-Coat paint...if the vehicle has a BC/CC paint system.

Couldn't another way to approach this subject be:
-Yeah...The paint has swirls/scratches/other blemishes.
But how does polishing the paint remove these paint blemishes.

-To 'remove' paint-blemishes:
You have to abrade away the paint, surrounding the blemish(es), until it's as low as the bottom of the blemishes' depth---the chink in the CC-paint's armor.

-What are the OEM's stated allowable tolerances for total CC-paint removal before its protection (including UV-protection) is compromised?
0.3-0.5 microns seems to be the industry standard. An EPTG's territory.

-The consequences of polishing CC-paint may not always be immediately apparent (such as: burn/strike-through)...
But what with the CC-paint containing the BC's much needed UV-protection:
Not removing too much CC-paint is of paramount importance.
The service life of vehicles' paint swings in the balance!

Editorial:
I often contemplate what's in store for some of our vehicles that seem to be constantly polished-out...attempting to keep marring at bay on DD's.

Personally:
I would rather put up with a little marring in order to keep my vehicles' CC-paint as "thick" as possible.
Yes...It'd be nice to have the perfect paint year-'round...but in the Real World:
It probably ain't gonna happen too often.


:)

Bob


NOTE/Question to OP:
Whatever products, tools, processes you've been using on your vehicle should work on your Mother's.
Ever since i got my car i got into detailing.
OK...What have you've been using on yours?
 
Oops. I think I got microns and mils mixed. I used the metric mils (I think). I just know when the PTG is reading around a hundred I'm in the units I like to use.
 
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