Dual Action or Rotary?

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sabresfan

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I am new to the forum and have already found tons of great info! I am going to buy a polisher and my question is which? Is there anything that can't be done with a rotary that can be done with a dual action? I am somewhat comfortable handling a rotary since I have some experience with my non-variable speed craftsman with a wool pad. I have successfully made some minor paint corrections. I just need variable speed for polishing, etc. My goals are simple.......to be able to polish, apply wax and remove swirls and light scratches. Cost isn't an issue. I just want the best (and most versitile) polisher for the jobs.

Any advice is appreciated.

thanks!
 
Since u already have a rotary you might want to check out the flex 3401. It's forced rotation so it's more powerful than most Dual Action polishers but finishes just as well, plus it's more safe than just running a rotary. You def want something you do your polishing steps with, and in my opinion a rotary isn't necessarily ideal for that.


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Thanks A-train. That does help. My craftsman rotary has some stupid non-standard thread so I can't use traditional backing plates, etc. I can't spread anything with it because it instantly goes to a million rpms and polish goes all over the place. I just want something I can polish with and do minor corrections if the need ever arrises. I was hoping the Makita or Dewalt would be able to handle both jobs. From what you're saying it sounds like the rotary is no good for polishing/waxing?

thanks again!
 
I agree with A-train, a 3401 would be ideal because you can touch on almost all areas of the car with it, including most tight areas without causing damage to the paint like a non adjustable rotary could. Instead of learning the techniques involved in keeping the pad rotating on a PC style DA you can just work on how much pressure is too much in tighter areas, concentrating on getting the work done instead of how to make the machine work correctly to get the results you desire.

The 3401 has it's limitations such as not being able to use real small pads but you can handle that with your rotary then follow up with the 3401 at lower speeds to remove any holograms in tighter areas.

It's a tough, hard working but easy to use machine that can accomplish a very nice finish with very little vibration.

If money is not an issue, I'd suggest stepping up to a newer rotary as well, such as the new DeWalt, Makita or even a Hitachi. You'd be glad you did once you're running one.
 
Cool. Good stuff. It's not that cost isn't an issue (as I stated earlier...lol). Basically I had a few scrathes on my truck that I was able to fix with my old non-variable rotary yesterday. I was thrilled with the result but was also super nervous doing it since I have very little experience and it is a newer truck. I can only use a wool pad because the non-standard threads. I guess what I am ultimately wondering is if a dual action is a waste of time if I feel comfortable with a variable speed rotary?
 
I agree with Dave about the Flex. I just got one. It is harder to finish down perfectly with a rotary. For corrections, it simply cannot be beat but the Flex will get close with the right pads. What I would suggest to you is get the Flex. Once you can afford it, get one of the rotaries Dave suggested. I use a Dynabrade which is a heavy workhorse. You will need one for very hard clears along with wool. You've got experience there so you're all set.
 
Sometimes (a lot of times) it's easier to finish you polishing without holograms, pig tails, or buffer marks if your using a rotary without a lot of experience. A DA type polisher really only has two drawbacks IMHO:

1. Takes longer to remove defects

2. May not be able to easily remove very severe defects.

Both of these probably apply less (or don't apply) to the Flex 3401. So, the Flex really has no drawbacks, other than the cost. If your removing normal defects on personal cars, a non forced rotation DA is a cheaper alternative (Griots, PC, Meg's). Either way, I can't see any advantage of going with a rotary as your first modern polisher. Unless, your doing this for a living, already own a DA style polisher, or have to remove some very severe defects. A lot of well respected Pro's will "compound" with a rotary, and polish/finish with a DA, just because with today's products they are great for finishing polishing.
 
sabresfan said:
Cool. Good stuff. It's not that cost isn't an issue (as I stated earlier...lol). Basically I had a few scrathes on my truck that I was able to fix with my old non-variable rotary yesterday. I was thrilled with the result but was also super nervous doing it since I have very little experience and it is a newer truck. I can only use a wool pad because the non-standard threads. I guess what I am ultimately wondering is if a dual action is a waste of time if I feel comfortable with a variable speed rotary?
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It depends really on how picky you want to be with the final finish. If you are going to use a product that has a little bit of filling capability, or if you're going to keep a good coat of wax on the vehicle, you can finish nice enough on lower speeds with a foam finishing pad and rotary that the slight holograms that might still exist will be a non issue once the wax is applied.

On the other hand, if you intend on finishing down as perfect as possible, then chemically stripping the paint to remove all traces of polishing oils and fillers in preparation to apply a permanent coating such as Opti-Coat, the slight holograms are going to be an issue because these coatings don't fill at all. They will actually tend to magnify any paint imperfections so in this case you'd be better off with the 3401.
 
sabresfan said:
I can only use a wool pad because the non-standard threads.

I guess what I am ultimately wondering is if a dual action is a waste of time if I feel comfortable with a variable speed rotary?
Click to expand...

Some of the older rotary buffers and entry level rotary buffers and the really in-expensive rotary buffers had a believe a 3/8" arbor instead of the normal, or standard 5/8's spindle and you're correct. There are no backing plates by any regular supplier of backing plates for the smaller spindles.

If all you're used to are wool pads you're going to love a rotary buffer with a foam pad, especially with all of the really good compounds and polishes on the market.

I tend to always warn people about the potential to leave hidden holograms in the paint but at the same time a lot of people don't care or don't know how to inspect for them so it's a non-issue.

The way to avoid rotary buffers is to do you LAST machine polishing step using some type of DA Polisher because you're changing the action of the too.


This video shows the differences between Rotary Buffers, the Flex 3401 and the PC style DA Polishers.

Here's a video Yancy and I made showing the primary differences between three different drive mechanisms between popular polishers for machine buffing paint.

  • Flex 3401 - Forced Rotation Dual Action Polisher.
  • Rotary Buffers - Direct Drive Single Action Polisher.
  • PC style DA Polishers - Porter Cable 7424XP, Meguiar's G110v2 and Griot's Garage Random Orbital Polisher.

All about the FLEX-3401 Forced Rotation Dual Action Polisher
[video=youtube_share;EAmojb8XIuk&hd=1"]All about the FLEX-3401 Forced Rotation Dual...[/video]​




And we recently introduced a brand new DVD on how to use Flex Power Tools including the PE 14 and the Flex 3401 to remove swirls and create a swirl-free finish.

How to properly use Flex Polishers

FlexDVD.jpg


Anyway, read my review here on rotary buffers, I really like the Flex PE14 for a lightweight, compact rotary buffer, the two in the below review are full size rotary buffers.

DeWALT DWP849X vs Makita 9227C Rotary Buffers

DeWALTvsMakita002.jpg



This is one thing I like a lightweight, compact RB for...

Surgical Buffing


And then if you really want to drill down a little deeper than read this...


Hologram Free with a Rotary Buffer


:)
 
Wow, you guys really step up when called upon! Thanks! Sounds like the Flex is the way to go. Let me give some final specifics and let you comment.....

1. Just working on personal cars (one is black)
2. Finish doesn't have to be perfect but obviously the nicer the better. I probably couldn't really tell between an 8 (out of 10) and a 10 (out of 10) finsh
3. I do wax frequently. I occasionally clay bar and try to use a decent wax (3M performance, Collinate 845, Zymol, or Meguires 26 Yellow wax)
4. light scratches on black truck show up on occasion. I love to be able to get rid of them. I won't try to correct anything too crazy.
5. I don't mind hand waxing but if a machine is better or saves time, I am all for it.

For the price of a flex, I can probably buy a decent rotary and a decent DA. Would that be wise or should I just buy the Flex? The concern I have is I have read in the forums a lot of guys that go out and buy a DA and then want a rotary. I like the idea of having both types but if a Flex will do everything a rotary will do (except heavy correction) it sounds like I should just go that route.

Final thoughts?

thanks again guys, much appreciated!
 
sabresfan said:
Wow, you guys really step up when called upon! Thanks! Sounds like the Flex is the way to go. Let me give some final specifics and let you comment.....

1. Just working on personal cars (one is black)
2. Finish doesn't have to be perfect but obviously the nicer the better. I probably couldn't really tell between an 8 (out of 10) and a 10 (out of 10) finsh
3. I do wax frequently. I occasionally clay bar and try to use a decent wax (3M performance, Collinate 845, Zymol, or Meguires 26 Yellow wax)
4. light scratches on black truck show up on occasion. I love to be able to get rid of them. I won't try to correct anything too crazy.
5. I don't mind hand waxing but if a machine is better or saves time, I am all for it.

For the price of a flex, I can probably buy a decent rotary and a decent DA. Would that be wise or should I just buy the Flex? The concern I have is I have read in the forums a lot of guys that go out and buy a DA and then want a rotary. I like the idea of having both types but if a Flex will do everything a rotary will do (except heavy correction) it sounds like I should just go that route.

Final thoughts?

thanks again guys, much appreciated!
Click to expand...
My final thoughts in this thread are this...If you go with both the DA and the rotary, you'll be purchasing backing plates and pads of various sizes for both machines. This is a lot to spend for someone with your stated needs. The 3401 will accomplish everything you're looking to do in a one polisher and one set of pads circumstance. You really can't go wrong with either way you might go here but you might save a little in the long run in both time and money by going the 3401 route.

The 3401 applies wax with a quickness but won't get into tighter areas without waxing over some trim and such. For these tight areas you'll want to include a few hand wax applicators and a roll or two of painter's tape in with your order.
 
Best choice for my goals?

XC 3401 VRG or PE 14-2-150?

thanks again for all the help!
 
Just one thing to keep in mind that I've read (hopefully someone can chime in on if it's accurate) is that the Flex 3401 can't use the new microfiber pads because of its larger than a normal DA orbit size.
 
flyinion said:
Just one thing to keep in mind that I've read (hopefully someone can chime in on if it's accurate) is that the Flex 3401 can't use the new microfiber pads because of its larger than a normal DA orbit size.
Click to expand...
I already used a CG microfiber pad on my 3401
 
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