Electric cars...neutering gearheads and freedom, HOW DID WE GET HERE!

[Klasse Act]

I'm subscribed to many YouTubers that review cars, talk about cars and podcasts, heck, I'm a recurring guest on an expanding podcast even.

It seems that every YouTuber has just laid down and accepted this concept of no more ICE cars in the somewhat near future. I mean the U.K. has banned the sale of ICE cars by 2030 or so.

You might think "what can we do", aren't WE the consumer here? Manufactures have made cars safer and CLEANER for quite some time now, I mean Porsche is developing their own fuel even that's SUPER clean.

I don't want this to turn into a political debate but it's pretty well known who's behind this and who's corner they're in, so no need to sling the mud but HOW DID WE GET HERE and why did the pendulum swing so far to the left and now it's stuck

Let's talk

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[Rsurfer]

Clean air!

 

[Klasse Act]

Clean air!

Yes but making the cars, any cars puts stuff in the air, not to mention mining to get the materials to make batteries. Speaking of batteries, where do they go when they're all done? I know about but can it be done with these?

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[glen e]

I have no problem with electric cars once they meet to criteria for me:
1. they charge just as fast as me putting gasoline in the car , meaning I get several hundred miles from 10 minutes worth of filling a car just like I do with my gas.
2. And the range has to be at least 300. However, I just took a trip in my X2 up to PhiladelphiaFrom Fort Lauderdale, 1100 miles… There’s not enough charging stations in the middle of nowhere that I would feel safe doing it at any type of electric car, even one that charged very quickly and got 300 miles range.

But I love the 0 to 60 time you get out of an electric car, I like it much more than any ICE car.

 

[Klasse Act]

I see, read and hear about all these advancement in electric cars and ZERO % about infrastructure, not just the amount of places to charge them but the grid. I went through the Blackout in 2003 and that sucked! I see places to charge like Wal-Greens and not sure how quick you charge there and you can only walk around that store for so long, buy gummy bears and watch your charge meter or whatever it has for so long

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[dgage]

We got here partially due to gas prices several years ago and that are starting to creep up again. We got here because of so many SUVs that are so popular but yet get poor gas mileage across the board. It's one thing to need an SUV or truck but many of the large SUVs are often driven by one person, which is like trying to do a full SUV paint correction with an Ibrid Nano.

Electrics aren't ready to take over for all people, that's for sure. Most apartments and condos aren't a good fit due to a lack of dedicated parking. Long distance infrastructure is another. Towing, etc. But as a daily driver for many people, electric cars could actually be a better solution. No need to worry about fueling a daily driver if you plug it in at night like we have adjusted to doing with our phones. The next day, every day, the electric car owner can go 200-400 miles before charging up again. For me, I plan to buy a Tesla as I drive to my shop many days a week and it is 40 miles each way. The Tesla is also a great driving car and I like many of the features though some I don't. As a car, I really think it is really good though I haven't lived with one, just driven Model 3s several times and ridden in an early Model S that the owner absolutely loved.

And electric cars have some advantages. They're quieter. They're faster in many cases up to reasonable speeds. Do they have limitations, sure. But one that Tesla has fixed that I haven't seen one other manufacturer get close to yet is the constant improvements via software. This was no small feat and while Tesla has made some missteps with the software updates (used car policies being one major item), largely this has been a huge bonus to their car owners (new and old) that no other manufacturer has come close to matching. I actually worked on a project while at Microsoft to enable over the air updates for Renault-Nissan and it looks like Nissan released NissanConnect in 2019 but I haven't read much on their updates over time for older cars.

And to address how did we get here, this isn't new though you and I may not have lived it depending on our ages. Why are the 60s muscle cars so popular and the 70s less so and the 80s almost non-existent? The 70s oil crisis is what changed the automobile world forever. And we had quite a few similarities the last decade with the big trucks and SUVs being so popular as well as the incredibly powerful cars like the Dodge Hellcat. That sort of imbalance will always be corrected, hence the surging popularity of electric cars. But balance is what nature craves and we will have some balance towards more fuel efficient cars, of which electric cars currently own that category but it will likely change over time as hydrogen fuel cells or similar make technological advances. But electric cars aren't going to meet all of our needs right now so there will always be a need for different types of vehicles. One thing for sure is the policies being "mandated" are goals that will likely change with the market and reality helping to develop the policies that will actually come into fruition.

One last thing...this is the only planet any of us will live upon and we depend upon it. We depend on it! As a race, we need to get better around the world of taking care of it. It is a shame politics has made this such a dividing topic as we really need to come together. Regardless of where the politics leads us on the balance spectrum, we only get one planet. And the planet will be around a long time, even if we're not.

 

[Klasse Act]

More of conversations like this^^^

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[Kamakaz1961]

Look how the batteries are made. It takes fossil fuel power companies to charge the vehicles. CHINA owns 90% of the battery market...WHY?
Have you seen the environmental DESTRUCTION getting rare metals out to produce batteries? Obviously, China does not care, the rest of the countries that want electric vehicles turn a blind eye on the destruction of the environment. What happens to the dead batteries? Where do you dispose of them?

So when someone tells me the electric vehicles produce clean energy...guess again. And when we are all dependent on electric cars ONLY...who controls the market? CHINA DOES.

I will stick to fossil fuel burning vehicles.

 

[Klasse Act]

Look how the batteries are made. It takes fossil fuel power companies to charge the vehicles. CHINA owns 90% of the battery market...WHY?
Have you seen the environmental DESTRUCTION getting rare metals out to produce batteries? Obviously, China does not care, the rest of the countries that want electric vehicles turn a blind eye on the destruction of the environment. What happens to the dead batteries? Where do you dispose of them?

So when someone tells me the electric vehicles produce clean energy...guess again. And when we are all dependent on electric cars ONLY...who controls the market? CHINA DOES.

I will stick to fossil fuel burning vehicles.

This makes logical sense to me because it's easy to understand and irrefutable

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[joebruin77]

I have driven a 2018 Tesla Model 3 Performance since 12-18, so I speak from personal experience. Also, FYIW, I am not a Tesla "fan boy". I appreciate its pluses but also acknowledge some of the negatives.

While the development of both EV's and the charging infrastructure have a long way to go, they have also made a ton of progress since the first Nissan Leaf came on the market.

RANGE: Most new EV's offer over 200 miles per charge while some, like my car, offer over 300 miles per charge.

HOME CHARGING: I personally recommend owning an EV only if you have a level-2 charger at home. I have a Tesla Wall Connector at home and can charge up to 44 miles per hour. Imagine if you had a gasoline pump in your garage and you could leave every morning with a full tank. Unless you had an unusually long commute or went on a road trip, you would not be concerned about a place to fuel up because you would just take care of it when you got back home at the end of the day. Also, home charging is SO much cheaper than buying gas. I used to spend $250+ a month on gas for my old ICE car. Now I spend $30-$40 a month on electricity.

ROAD TRIP CHARGING: This is where Tesla still has a big advantage over other EV manufacturers. The Tesla Supercharger network is awesome. There are over 2,700 Supercharger stations worldwide and over 25,000 charging stalls. And more are being built every week. For example, Tesla announced that they are expanding the Supercharger at the Harris Ranch in California along Interstate 5. It will have 100 stalls when completed. Plus, when you pull up to a Supercharger, you just plug it in. No credit card, no apps. It is super fast and easy.

Going on a road trip in a Tesla, IMO, is so much better than driving an ICE car. If you stop to charge, you can add 100 miles of charge in about 10 min and you can add 200 miles of charge in about 20-23 minutes (based on using the latest V3 chargers). Plus keep in mind, unlike when fill up with gas, you can lock your car while it is charging and go get a coffee, use the restroom, etc. When you are driving, the autopilot basically does most of the driving, so driving is much less taxing. Finally, more and more hotels are offering a destination charger. So you can charge at your hotel, often free of charge. Imagine if you stayed at a hotel and the valet filled up your gas tank free of charge.

For non-Tesla EV's, the third party networks such as Electrify America and EVGO are also expanding, but they are not nearly as plentiful and not nearly as user-friendly. They will likely get better over time, but road tripping with a non-Tesla EV, although doable, is not quite as pleasant and easy an experience, at least not yet.

ENVIRONMENTAL FACTORS: It is actually a myth that the extra carbon produced and energy used to make batteries negates the environmental benefits of driving an EV. Although it is true that making an EV does produce a bit more carbon than an ICE car, after you have owned and driven your EV for just over a year, you reach the point where the zero emissions compensates for the carbon produced during manufacturing. Now this does assume that you obtain your energy from an environmentally-friendly source of energy. But even if you get your electricity from coal or some other fossil fuel, you will still reach a point at which the car has an overall positive impact on carbon emissions. It will just take a bit longer.

FUN FACTOR: If you want to understand the "hype" about EV's, take a Tesla Model 3 performance for a test drive. There is something called a "Tesla smile". That is what happens when you are at a dead stop and then you floor it. The instant torque propels you from zero to 60 in 3.1 seconds. I had my first Tesla smile during my test drive back in Nov 2018 and I get a Tesla smile every time I drive the car.

 

[vobro]

For me the sterilization of performance cars started in the 80’s, Si, GTI,GLHS and VTEC were never appealing to me. Sure you can get tiny cars with small engines to perform but the noise and feel are just not there. Fast forward to today and I applaud the engineering that’s moving at a fast pace, world population and emerging countries are growing to the point to where it’ll outgrow resources ar some point.

As to your point of charging stations we’ve been thru this many times. Horse trails, sidewalks,roads,highway system,airports all require the actually structure plus they all have their own sustaining eco systems to make them work. I see no real problem that eventually charging stations, time to charge issues will be just as common as the gas station network. Also I think you’re just looking at this as a pure electric future, I will include the hybrid cars. Most of all the top European manufacturers make some kick ass hybrid performance and super cars, my point is the future isn’t set in stone and can evolve different ways.

I’ve had the chance to be in some Tesla models and sure it sounds weird but as far as neutering I don’t agree. The performance that they are capable of are incredible. You mention the blackouts in 03 well we’ve just seen most of the east coast in panic mode as they ran out of gas,the 60’s oil crisis changed the whole future of gas cars. I believe it’s gonna happen but don’t know how also how will the government regain the lost taxes on gas?

As a kid and to this day the song Red Barchetta by Rush always makes me think about the future of cars and the days coming, well they’re here and I see it as an evolution of the capability of the human brain

 

[Klasse Act]

How is charging free at one of these supercharger things?

The government is going to get "theirs" one way or the other, I'm sure registration is more? How about insurance?

As far as performance goes, well, the last thing we need is non-gearheads driving something around that's REALLY fast!

I appreciate the long, well written post 2 back, as well as the one above.

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[joebruin77]

As a kid and to this day the song Red Barchetta by Rush always makes me think about the future of cars and the days coming

One of the best Rush songs ever!

Re the concern about blackouts, keep in mind that gas pumps don't work during blackouts. Recently, there have been gas shortages due to the cyber-ransom pipeline shutdown plus a shortage of gas truck drivers. If you drive an EV, you never have to worry about gasoline supply problems.

There was a recent article about how some families in Texas during the harsh cold weather last winter credited their Tesla with saving their lives. Because you can safely turn on a Tesla in a closed garage, some Tesla drivers were able to sit in their Teslas with the seat heaters on and just enough heat to keep the cabin comfortable. When the power would intermittently come back on, their battery would recharge.

 

[Klasse Act]

One of the best Rush songs ever!

Re the concern about blackouts, keep in mind that gas pumps don't work during blackouts. Recently, there have been gas shortages due to the cyber-ransom pipeline shutdown plus a shortage of gas truck drivers. If you drive an EV, you never have to worry about gasoline supply problems.

There was a recent article about how some families in Texas during the harsh cold weather last winter credited their Tesla with saving their lives. Because you can safely turn on a Tesla in a closed garage, some Tesla drivers were able to sit in their Teslas with the seat heaters on and just enough heat to keep the cabin comfortable. When the power would intermittently come back on, their battery would recharge.

But during a blackout there is no power for anything

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[briarpatch]

Look how the batteries are made. It takes fossil fuel power companies to charge the vehicles. CHINA owns 90% of the battery market...WHY?
Have you seen the environmental DESTRUCTION getting rare metals out to produce batteries? Obviously, China does not care, the rest of the countries that want electric vehicles turn a blind eye on the destruction of the environment. What happens to the dead batteries? Where do you dispose of them?

So when someone tells me the electric vehicles produce clean energy...guess again. And when we are all dependent on electric cars ONLY...who controls the market? CHINA DOES.

I will stick to fossil fuel burning vehicles.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[joebruin77]

But during a blackout there is no power for anything

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But that is where the huge battery capacity of an EV comes in very handy. If you use the battery just to run seat heaters and occasionally the heater, you can do this for several days before the battery would be depleted. Some people do have solar power and a Tesla power wall, which will continue to provide power during a blackout. Plus, you could also get an old fashioned emergency generator.

Here is the article on how several Texas families relied on their Tesla during the Texas winter storms:

How EVs were a lifeline for 3 families (and 6 cats) during the Texas blackout - Electrek

 

[FUNX650]

You ask: “HOW DID WE GET HERE!
Good question. :xyxthumbs:

In response: I’d like to begin with the
below innate, human behavioral faults,
that I perceive as being pertinent to
the discussion at hand.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

•Many already have been, and many more
will become, bewitched by false doctrines.

•It appears, more so with every succeeding
day, that the Nation that I dearly love is ever
more crooked, perverse, and paganistic:

-A Nation where Evil is rewarded, and
Good is punished;

-Where Mankind on the whole espouses,
among other insidious propaganda, that
they can “Save the Planet”—as though
they were God.


Bob

 

[dgage]

-Where Mankind on the whole espouses,
among other insidious propaganda, that
they can “Save the Planet”—as though
they were God.

So if we say we can’t save the world, then that must mean we can’t destroy it. With nuclear weapons and no regard for natural resources, I disagree wholeheartedly. We were given free will and intelligence and both must be leveraged to obtain balance. If we aren’t worthy of the planet we’re given, God and the planet will just start again but humans may not be a part of the ecosystem.

 

[Klasse Act]

You ask: “HOW DID WE GET HERE!
Good question. :xyxthumbs:

In response: I’d like to begin with the
below innate, human behavioral faults,
that I perceive as being pertinent to
the discussion at hand.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

•Many already have been, and many more
will become, bewitched by false doctrines.

•It appears, more so with every succeeding
day, that the Nation that I dearly love is ever
more crooked, perverse, and paganistic:

-A Nation where Evil is rewarded, and
Good is punished;

-Where Mankind on the whole espouses,
among other insidious propaganda, that
they can “Save the Planet”—as though
they were God.


Bob

Nailed it here Bob

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[Klasse Act]

So if we say we can’t save the world, then that must mean we can’t destroy it. With nuclear weapons and no regard for natural resources, I disagree wholeheartedly. We were given free will and intelligence and both must be leveraged to obtain balance. If we aren’t worthy of the planet we’re given, God and the planet will just start again but humans may not be a part of the ecosystem.

I'm a simple man so keep this mind, would balance be gas AND electric As far as nukes go, some weapons KEEP THE PEACE!

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