First "job". first post (here) & a True Crime story

[civdiv99]

Yeah, I did the corny opening line, but hey, all 3 assertions therein are true, so bear with me.

Crime Scene: a severely neglected 1991 Camaro. (Crime scene photos follow)

The Perp: a (now) 20 yr old with an apparent aversion to car care products. Moved to Florida to be with his chick, which is about as far from WA as there is. Left the car behind (I agree with that decision), but still..... :bash:

The Victim: 50s something bifocal-wearin' pops left with dealing with, and unloading, said '91 Camaro. (that'd be me). History of metal fab and woodworking, etc. Good collection of tools, but none (until now) designed to work with paint). Always game for more tools, though.....

Background: Bought the car at a good price for the teenager to drive around a few years ago. Goal: put an end to "can I use your car/truck/etc. today/tonight/etc. questions." It's an RS w dog-slow but well running 5.0 (welcome to 1991), bone stock and unmolested, and had been refinished in a single stage paint of unknown origins, although tales are told of Lewis and Clark trading in paint samples from this car on their journey west. Evidence on the car does not dispute that possibility.....

Mitigating circumstances: It probably didn't help when, shortly after getting him the car, I was heard to say: "Keep yer mits off my car care stuff. Ya gotta get yer own" Or words to that effect. It will be noted that he's a damn good kid all around, but this was clearly not his forte. But we digress - back to business.

Priors:
Wash History: Yep, it does rain sometimes........
Polish/Wax History::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:

The Parole Board: voluminous reading on this board :idea:, followed by acquisition of a Griot's 6", about a half dozen of their orange pads, and Megs 105/205 for now.

Parole Violation: My 1st pad lasted about 8 square feet. See last photo. What am I doin' wrong here? Feed back please

Probation Period: This is gonna take me a loooonnggg time.

Goal: Sell car asap, cheap if necessary, but it sure helps if it looks better'n it does right now.

The Philosophy in Place: If ya roll a turd around in enough powdered sugar, someone is bound to call it a jelly donut.

Risk of Repeat Offender: Damn this is gonna take awhile. Gotta use the eat an elephant approach for sure.

On with the pics.

 

[Y2KSVT]

Welcome! I love your sense of humor! :xyxthumbs:

Can you give us a list of the steps you took before you put the polisher to the paint? I'll assume you washed the vehicle, but did you use a clay bar?

How were you using the polisher? Lots of pressure? How many section passes did you make before moving to the next section?

Sorry for all the questions, I know they aren't answering anything you've asked (yet).

My guess is that you may have been using a lot of pressure, specifically on those sections of the hood that change in elevation. With as neglected and oxidized as that paint is, it's going to take quite a few passes, which means a lot of heat, to remove all of the defects/oxidation. My guess is the pad was pretty hot and you were running it over those raised areas on the hood and it couldn't take the pressure. I've done the same thing so you aren't alone.

Make sure you're cleaning your pad (on the fly) often, especially with paint in that condition. You might even change out your pad after each panel to let them cool off, and to give them a thorough cleaning. When you're compounding/polishing the paint, your pad is soaking up spent product and clear coat that needs to be cleaned off/out of the pad.

This will probably be a multiple-day project for you so split up your time accordingly. Tackle the hood one day and just know that it's going to take all of your orange pads to do it right. Do a few square feet and change out your pad until it's finished. Then wash your pads, let them dry, and go at it again the next day/weekend.

Good luck!

 

[rider9195]

Mark has some great advice right there!!

 

[civdiv99]

Washed car and used an APC (similar to simple green). Toweled off (ended up with a green towel, natch). Then yeah, I clayed it. kinda debated on using up some clay on this car, but did it anyway.

1st pad got pretty warm, and started to disintegrate. Used Griot's on #5.5 with both the 105 & 205. Maybe too much pressure, but I began work on other hood areas adjacent to my "test" panel, and kept the machine around 4~4.5 and tried to NOT apply pressure. That pad is beginning to exhibit the same signs of failure in the center area only.

Now me thinks perhaps not enough compound thus lubrication? This'll get pad-spendy quick. Gonna have to up the asking price.......

By the way, I did read Mike's write-up re old single stage paint and Megs #7, which was a very effective write-up. It was SO effective, in fact, that because of that article I left the Megs #7 outta the picture 'cause ya see, I'm not up for a bunch of manual rub-a-dub-dub on this thing.

Welcome! I love your sense of humor! :xyxthumbs:

Can you give us a list of the steps you took before you put the polisher to the paint? I'll assume you washed the vehicle, but did you use a clay bar?

How were you using the polisher? Lots of pressure? How many section passes did you make before moving to the next section?

Sorry for all the questions, I know they aren't answering anything you've asked (yet).

My guess is that you may have been using a lot of pressure, specifically on those sections of the hood that change in elevation. With as neglected and oxidized as that paint is, it's going to take quite a few passes, which means a lot of heat, to remove all of the defects/oxidation. My guess is the pad was pretty hot and you were running it over those raised areas on the hood and it couldn't take the pressure. I've done the same thing so you aren't alone.

Make sure you're cleaning your pad (on the fly) often, especially with paint in that condition. You might even change out your pad after each panel to let them cool off, and to give them a thorough cleaning. When you're compounding/polishing the paint, your pad is soaking up spent product and clear coat that needs to be cleaned off/out of the pad.

This will probably be a multiple-day project for you so split up your time accordingly. Tackle the hood one day and just know that it's going to take all of your orange pads to do it right. Do a few square feet and change out your pad until it's finished. Then wash your pads, let them dry, and go at it again the next day/weekend.

Good luck!

 

[rider9195]

You can keep the speed at 5. Just lessen up the pressure and let the machine do the work.

 

[civdiv99]

Me and my ever-thinning wallet are, nevertheless, wide open to pad suggestions here.............goal is rejuvenation using the Griot's I have whilst avoiding shredding enough pads to gain admittance to pad manufacturer's lifetime Christmas card list.

I have a rotary buffer, but thus far it's job has been polishing aluminum projects over the years using various rouge and cotton flap-wheel, etc. Not going to take it to the car, although my angle grinder came to mind at one time, but I resisted; be tough to sell the car after ya grind the hood into metallic dust with an evil smile on yer face. That little fantasy has passed.

You can keep the speed at 5. Just lessen up the pressure and let the machine do the work.

 

[Charleston]

I would try the Meg's DA MF 5.5 pads. They cut quick, and work very well. They should tackle that paint pretty well.

 

[Charleston]

And keep in mind, use slow arm speed. The pad should be spinning, did you mark the backing plate?

Use 15Lbs of pressure (Go to the bathroom scale and practice lol)

 

[Y2KSVT]

How are you priming the pad? How much compound/polish are you applying to the pad once it's primed?

Start by priming the entire face of the pad with the chemical you're going to use. Use just enough to turn the orange face of your pad, the color of the chemical you're going to be using. Then add 3-4 pea sized drops to the pad. Because the compound/polish tends to work it's way to the center of the pad, thus saturating it and causing extra, unwanted heat, I like to add those pea sized drops to the outer-most are of the face of the pad.

I like to use speed 6 on my PC7424XP; your GG is said to be more powerful, so speed 5 may be sufficient. Start out by spreading the chemical over your working area (2' x 2' max). Then start your section pass, using enough downward pressure that doesn't keep the pad from stopping, but spins enough to get some correction out of it.

I think your pads are getting gummed up really quickly with abraded paint, so you'll just need to monitor your pads after each section. If it's starting to cave in the center, back off on the pressure and swap to a new pad. Clean that pad after it's had time to cool down and then use it again later on. You'll want to clean your pads on the fly, though, after each section with how messy the paint is.

As for your work, it looks like you've got the hang of it; your results speak for themselves! That paint should look great when you're done! Get some before pics of the entire car, and then post some finished pics before you sell it off!

 

[Blackthorn One]

What makes you believe that this is single stage paint? It looks like factory GM Teal to me. Did you get color on the pad when you buffed? I don't see any color on the pad in the pic. I wonder if #7 is useful for clearcoat at all. I agree you are using too much pressure. I have a 91 red Camaro and it is clearcoated. Factory paint.

 

[bobble]

I have to agree with the above posts. BTW we have the same damn kid, did you ever visit SoCal @1990 or early 1991. Maybe my ex was a friend or too friendly depends on translation?

Anyhow I'd say a bit too much pressure and a bit too much product will lead to pad failure similar to that. I'd try lightening up the pressure to almost nothing, prime the pad by spreading a small amount of product all over the pad and then use 3 pea sized drops per panel section, butter the section with the polisher off and polish in slow arm movements over an @2x2 section, wipe clean and check results. If not to your liking tackle section again with same method adding a little pressure or speed. Once you find the process that yields the results replicate over the other panels. You will want to clean those on the fly if you're you going to tackle the whole vehicle at one shot depending on how many pads you have, will probably need at least 4 to 6 of each color you're polishing with based on the paint condition.

Single stage correct? Have you tired some Megs 151 Paint Reconditiong Creme at all, can sometimes find this at auto part/paint stores. It may offer you a decent one step improvement enough to sell the thing and run.

Last but not least wipe off all prints with IPA roll it into a lake and blame it on bandits from Idaho.

Seriously though looks like you're making decent headway just need to refine your approach, less pressure, less product and start at 5 or so work up the pressure and speed if the results are not to your liking. Oh and clean those pads often on the fly to get all the spent polish and paint out.

 

[civdiv99]

What makes you believe that this is single stage paint? It looks like factory GM Teal to me. Did you get color on the pad when you buffed? I don't see any color on the pad in the pic. I wonder if #7 is useful for clearcoat at all. I agree you are using too much pressure. I have a 91 red Camaro and it is clearcoated. Factory paint.

I can rub on it with a t-shirt and have a green shirt...............

It has been repainted. I think original may have been black. Not important - point is that opening a few hatches, hood, etc. and it's clear (no pun intended) the car was repainted at some time in its life.

Here's pic of the pad BEFORE I cleaned it for the forum pic.....

 

[civdiv99]

Ok, ease way up on the pressure. Check. Less product? Sure, ok, I'll try it. Right now I wouldn't be accused of going easy on the quantity, so I'll work with that.

I have read and watched all the videos and stuff here for awhile in getting ready for this, so have been trying to follow the "section size" pretty close.

The results in the photo w/cloud (I kinda liked that effect, so that's the pic that got uploaded here) were done as follows:

3 "sections," each section was done 3 times with the #105 - do about a 2x2 section following the various vids Mike has posted for pattern, try to go slow, etc. Clean it off, kinda clean the pad off, new product application, and do it again. Like I said, 3 times for each of the 3 sections that'd make up give or take the 6' ish hood length. After that, 2 times with the 205 on each of the 3 sections except the last section (closest to the windshield) which was terminated during the 2nd go-over with 205 when the pad started shedding parts.

That make sense?

Kid's in Orlando now, doing computerized drafting of kitchens and baths for some outfit called "Toll Bros." Like I said, that's more than a few feet from the porch here. We mutually agreed that taking the car from WA to FL was just a guaranteed, "Hello, Dad? I'm broken down in Thumbnail, Oklahoma. I dunno what's wrong. I need => Fill in the blank here: (money, a ride, money, a car, money, a plane ticket, money.....) So since is legally "mine" anyway, the plan is 1. Practice on car with stuff. 2. Park car by road with "please take me home" sign. Well under $2K for runs fine, AC works, etc. It'll sell. Just gotta finish now that I have (at this point) "most" of a shiny hood......

Oh, and I'm not anti-Camaro or anything. My 2011 SS is nestled snugly in the garage.......

I found a couple more "before" pictures, so we'll see how this all turns out.....

I have to agree with the above posts. BTW we have the same damn kid, did you ever visit SoCal @1990 or early 1991. Maybe my ex was a friend or too friendly depends on translation?

Anyhow I'd say a bit too much pressure and a bit too much product will lead to pad failure similar to that. I'd try lightening up the pressure to almost nothing, prime the pad by spreading a small amount of product all over the pad and then use 3 pea sized drops per panel section, butter the section with the polisher off and polish in slow arm movements over an @2x2 section, wipe clean and check results. If not to your liking tackle section again with same method adding a little pressure or speed. Once you find the process that yields the results replicate over the other panels. You will want to clean those on the fly if you're you going to tackle the whole vehicle at one shot depending on how many pads you have, will probably need at least 4 to 6 of each color you're polishing with based on the paint condition.

Single stage correct? Have you tired some Megs 151 Paint Reconditiong Creme at all, can sometimes find this at auto part/paint stores. It may offer you a decent one step improvement enough to sell the thing and run.

Last but not least wipe off all prints with IPA roll it into a lake and blame it on bandits from Idaho.

Seriously though looks like you're making decent headway just need to refine your approach, less pressure, less product and start at 5 or so work up the pressure and speed if the results are not to your liking. Oh and clean those pads often on the fly to get all the spent polish and paint out.

 

[civdiv99]

What makes you believe that this is single stage paint? It looks like factory GM Teal to me. Did you get color on the pad when you buffed? I don't see any color on the pad in the pic. I wonder if #7 is useful for clearcoat at all. I agree you are using too much pressure. I have a 91 red Camaro and it is clearcoated. Factory paint.

Well, now you got me wondering. Maybe that is the original color. Not original paint, I wouldn't think. And clear coat? No signs of any clear coat failure - more like if roll around on it in a white t-shirt then you would be wearing a green shirt......See the pic of the hood after I washed and clayed it? The cloth used to wipe it off turned into a seriously green cloth just wiping it off.

Hmmmmm. Guess I'll see if I can locate a paint code and see what I see. Doesn't necessarily change my approach since the result I got from the 105/205 work is plenty satisfactory for me. Just gotta get through this using less than 47 pads.......