Foam or microfiber pad to apply wax?
- Thread starter cheekyage
- Start date
VISITOR
Active member
- May 10, 2007
- 9,859
- 3
by hand both these work well...
Lake Country Precision Power Red Waxing Applicator
Meguiars Foam Applicator Pads – 4 Pack
Lake Country Precision Power Red Waxing Applicator
Meguiars Foam Applicator Pads – 4 Pack
Mike Phillips
Active member
- Dec 5, 2022
- 51,004
- 6
First - your questions about microfiber pads versus foam pads?
I cover this topic in detail here,
Here's what you need to get into machine polishing - Recommendations for a beginner by Mike Phillips
Here's the pertinent portion...
Foam pads versus microfiber pads
Below is a list of 5.5" foam pads and 5.5" microfiber pads. Here's the primary difference if you're new to machine polishing and don't know which style of pad to go with.
You can quote me on this statement,
When comparing foam pads to microfiber pads, foam pads will finish out nicer and more consistently on a wider spectrum of paint systems - Mike Phillips
What this means is, cars have paint on them. The paint comes from a paint manufacturer. There are about a dozen paint manufacturers that provide paint to car manufacturers and the re-finishing industry. (re-finishing industry is the local body shop or dealership that fixes the dents in your car and sprays fresh paint on the repaired area so it matches the rest of the car.
Paint systems are not only different in their hardness and softness, or what I like to call polishability, but paints are ALWAYS changing. So there's no simple way to know if the paint you're buffing on is hard or soft without testing and experience, (I cover this in my how to book on page 7)
So when I say, that foam pads will finish out nicer and more consistently on a wide spectrum of paint systems that means
A: For the finishing step, not the compounding step. (look at what I wrote)
B: I used the words wide spectrum because thousands of people will read this and then be buffing on a car somewhere and it will have a "paint system" on it and none of us except the person buffing on this car will know if the paint is hard, soft or somewhere in-between.
Fibers are a form of abrasive
Just like the headline reads, fibers are form of abrasive. A gentle abrasive in most cases but an abrasive all the same. If you put a wool cutting pad on a rotary buffer and then buff on some black paint with some baby oil, after you strip the paint of the baby oil and look at the paint there will be hologram swirl scratches in the paint. They will not have come from the baby oil or the tool, so what put the scratches into the paint? Answer. The fibers that make up the wool pad.
You can extrapolate this out to microfiber pads for orbital polishers. While for some paints, (harder paints), you can both compound and finish out with a fiber/microfiber pad, for other paints, (softer paints), you can compound with a microfiber pad and remove defects but the fibers that make up the pad can and will leave a scratch pattern called micro-marring. That's okay if you do a follow-up step after compounding and re-polish the paint but if you're seeing micro-marring from a microfiber pad then you'll have a high chance of finishing out without micro-marring if you switch over to a foam pad.
And the above explanation is what I mean when I say,
"When comparing foam pads to microfiber pads, foam pads will finish out nicer and more consistently on a sider spectrum of paint systems"
Of course, you never know what you can do until you try.... and then inspect the results. And when inspecting, to measure the true and accurate results you'll need to chemically strip the paint and inspect with a quality swirl finder light or bright overhead sunlight.
Car Detailing History 101
To help understand the history of microfiber pads and when and why they were introduced into the car detailing world, I like to use the Meguiar's Microfiber DA Correction System as an analogy.
Meguiar's introduced this system to change the production detailing industry by getting rid of the universally abused rotary buffer. The production detailing industry uses the rotary buffer for SPEED, not quality. The problem with the rotary buffer is that all to often it leaves the paint filled with holograms.
Holograms = a circular scratch pattern IN the paint caused by the single rotating action of the buffing pad on a rotary buffer.
Holograms mimic the pattern a rotary buffer is moved over the paint. Holograms is a SPECFIC type of scratch pattern only inflicted into paint by rotary buffers, not orbital polishers. Orbital polishers can instill micro-marring and a visible pattern of how an orbital buffer was moved over the paint can be seen on darker colors but this pattern is NOT called holograms. You can call it buffer trails, or buffer haze or buffer shadows, or buffer patterns but it is NOT called holograms.
The idea was to replace the rotary buffer with a free spinning orbital polisher from Meguiar's called the G100 which was a copy of the Porter Cable 7424 orbital polisher, and then later the MT300, which offers the same 8mm orbit stroke length has the G100 (or the Porter Cable), but has a longer body than the G100. (same 8mm free spinning orbital polishing action)
To make up for the loss of direct drive power and speed offered by the rotary buffer, Meguiar's incorporated a microfiber pad or a FIBER pad to assist in faster defect removal. Or you could say this as faster PAINT REMOVAL as removing defects is actually removing paint to level the surface, that is level the surface with the lowest depths of the defects you're trying to remove to create a visually flat and also visually perfect finish. The fibers act as a form of abrasives and aid the actual abrasives in compounds and polishes.
The downside of increasing the aggressiveness or cutting ability of an orbital polisher by introducing a microfiber pad is the risk of introducing micro-marring when the fibers instill their own scratch pattern into some paints, typically softer paints. This tradeoff is considered a net gain as compared to having the detailing industry inflict every car buffed out with a rotary buffer with hologram scratches.
The above is an attempt to explain not only why there are microfiber pads on the market but where they fit into the car detailing or car buffing processes.
Foam pads reduce the risk of micro-marring because they offer a uniform texture of the entire face of the pad, not individual fibers, or loops of fibers in the case of some brands of microfiber pads.
You won't know if a microfiber pad will induce micro-marring into the paint of any car you are going to buff out until you do a Test Spot. One option for detailers that want increased cutting from any free spinning orbital polishers is to START with microfiber pads for the compounding or cutting step but finish with foam pad.
Besides pads, abrasive technology is a HUGE factor as to whether you will see micro-marring or not no matter what type of pad you use. This is why I believe the most important factor when buffing out a car is the abrasive technology, not a person's technique, not the tool or the pad. It all starts with the substance TOUCHING the paint and in the car detailing world this would include,
I cover this topic in detail here,
Here's what you need to get into machine polishing - Recommendations for a beginner by Mike Phillips
Here's the pertinent portion...
Foam pads versus microfiber pads
Below is a list of 5.5" foam pads and 5.5" microfiber pads. Here's the primary difference if you're new to machine polishing and don't know which style of pad to go with.
You can quote me on this statement,
When comparing foam pads to microfiber pads, foam pads will finish out nicer and more consistently on a wider spectrum of paint systems - Mike Phillips
What this means is, cars have paint on them. The paint comes from a paint manufacturer. There are about a dozen paint manufacturers that provide paint to car manufacturers and the re-finishing industry. (re-finishing industry is the local body shop or dealership that fixes the dents in your car and sprays fresh paint on the repaired area so it matches the rest of the car.
Paint systems are not only different in their hardness and softness, or what I like to call polishability, but paints are ALWAYS changing. So there's no simple way to know if the paint you're buffing on is hard or soft without testing and experience, (I cover this in my how to book on page 7)
So when I say, that foam pads will finish out nicer and more consistently on a wide spectrum of paint systems that means
A: For the finishing step, not the compounding step. (look at what I wrote)
B: I used the words wide spectrum because thousands of people will read this and then be buffing on a car somewhere and it will have a "paint system" on it and none of us except the person buffing on this car will know if the paint is hard, soft or somewhere in-between.
Fibers are a form of abrasive
Just like the headline reads, fibers are form of abrasive. A gentle abrasive in most cases but an abrasive all the same. If you put a wool cutting pad on a rotary buffer and then buff on some black paint with some baby oil, after you strip the paint of the baby oil and look at the paint there will be hologram swirl scratches in the paint. They will not have come from the baby oil or the tool, so what put the scratches into the paint? Answer. The fibers that make up the wool pad.
You can extrapolate this out to microfiber pads for orbital polishers. While for some paints, (harder paints), you can both compound and finish out with a fiber/microfiber pad, for other paints, (softer paints), you can compound with a microfiber pad and remove defects but the fibers that make up the pad can and will leave a scratch pattern called micro-marring. That's okay if you do a follow-up step after compounding and re-polish the paint but if you're seeing micro-marring from a microfiber pad then you'll have a high chance of finishing out without micro-marring if you switch over to a foam pad.
And the above explanation is what I mean when I say,
"When comparing foam pads to microfiber pads, foam pads will finish out nicer and more consistently on a sider spectrum of paint systems"
Of course, you never know what you can do until you try.... and then inspect the results. And when inspecting, to measure the true and accurate results you'll need to chemically strip the paint and inspect with a quality swirl finder light or bright overhead sunlight.
Car Detailing History 101
To help understand the history of microfiber pads and when and why they were introduced into the car detailing world, I like to use the Meguiar's Microfiber DA Correction System as an analogy.
Meguiar's introduced this system to change the production detailing industry by getting rid of the universally abused rotary buffer. The production detailing industry uses the rotary buffer for SPEED, not quality. The problem with the rotary buffer is that all to often it leaves the paint filled with holograms.
Holograms = a circular scratch pattern IN the paint caused by the single rotating action of the buffing pad on a rotary buffer.
Holograms mimic the pattern a rotary buffer is moved over the paint. Holograms is a SPECFIC type of scratch pattern only inflicted into paint by rotary buffers, not orbital polishers. Orbital polishers can instill micro-marring and a visible pattern of how an orbital buffer was moved over the paint can be seen on darker colors but this pattern is NOT called holograms. You can call it buffer trails, or buffer haze or buffer shadows, or buffer patterns but it is NOT called holograms.
The idea was to replace the rotary buffer with a free spinning orbital polisher from Meguiar's called the G100 which was a copy of the Porter Cable 7424 orbital polisher, and then later the MT300, which offers the same 8mm orbit stroke length has the G100 (or the Porter Cable), but has a longer body than the G100. (same 8mm free spinning orbital polishing action)
To make up for the loss of direct drive power and speed offered by the rotary buffer, Meguiar's incorporated a microfiber pad or a FIBER pad to assist in faster defect removal. Or you could say this as faster PAINT REMOVAL as removing defects is actually removing paint to level the surface, that is level the surface with the lowest depths of the defects you're trying to remove to create a visually flat and also visually perfect finish. The fibers act as a form of abrasives and aid the actual abrasives in compounds and polishes.
The downside of increasing the aggressiveness or cutting ability of an orbital polisher by introducing a microfiber pad is the risk of introducing micro-marring when the fibers instill their own scratch pattern into some paints, typically softer paints. This tradeoff is considered a net gain as compared to having the detailing industry inflict every car buffed out with a rotary buffer with hologram scratches.
The above is an attempt to explain not only why there are microfiber pads on the market but where they fit into the car detailing or car buffing processes.
Foam pads reduce the risk of micro-marring because they offer a uniform texture of the entire face of the pad, not individual fibers, or loops of fibers in the case of some brands of microfiber pads.
You won't know if a microfiber pad will induce micro-marring into the paint of any car you are going to buff out until you do a Test Spot. One option for detailers that want increased cutting from any free spinning orbital polishers is to START with microfiber pads for the compounding or cutting step but finish with foam pad.
Besides pads, abrasive technology is a HUGE factor as to whether you will see micro-marring or not no matter what type of pad you use. This is why I believe the most important factor when buffing out a car is the abrasive technology, not a person's technique, not the tool or the pad. It all starts with the substance TOUCHING the paint and in the car detailing world this would include,
- Compounds
- Polishes
- Cleaner/waxes --> most cleaner/waxes, or cleaner/sealants contain some form of abrasive technology like compounds and polishes and this is why I include them in this group of substances that touch the paint.
Mike Phillips
Active member
- Dec 5, 2022
- 51,004
- 6
If it were me and my car I would machine apply waxes and sealants using foam pads not fiber pads.
Mike Phillips
Active member
- Dec 5, 2022
- 51,004
- 6
PouncingPanzer
Active member
- May 11, 2017
- 967
- 114
i prefer foam. I notice the layer is thinner, more even post flash, and easier to remove. Uses less product also. I'd go foam.
Mantilgh
New member
- Dec 6, 2014
- 2,724
- 1
I thought he was asking about something like this
I haven't used a paste wax in a while but I think the foam ones work better for that purpose.
I like using the microfiber ones more for applying interior dressings.
The microfiber applicators may work better for liquid waxes, but I'm not sure.
Ultima has a microfiber one for their paint sealant.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I haven't used a paste wax in a while but I think the foam ones work better for that purpose.
I like using the microfiber ones more for applying interior dressings.
The microfiber applicators may work better for liquid waxes, but I'm not sure.
Ultima has a microfiber one for their paint sealant.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
conthedon
Member
- Dec 4, 2010
- 293
- 0
I use CCS Red Wax/Sealant Foam Applicator Pads for paste wax http://www.autogeek.net/red-ccs-applicators.html
In the past used Meguiar’s Even-Coat Applicator for spray wax (now just use cobra towel) http://www.autogeek.net/x3080.html
Sent from my SM-G930P using Autogeekonline mobile app
In the past used Meguiar’s Even-Coat Applicator for spray wax (now just use cobra towel) http://www.autogeek.net/x3080.html
Sent from my SM-G930P using Autogeekonline mobile app
Thanks Mike. I really find all your videos and detailed step by step instructions so helpful. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Legumes
New member
- Jun 14, 2013
- 238
- 0
This is what I assumed the OP meant as well. My foam applicators don't absorb as much as the product as the microfiber ones do. Other than that, either work fine. Blue or black LC Foam pads on a DA are my favorite wax applicators as they allow super thin, even, coats to be applied.
Mike Phillips
Active member
- Dec 5, 2022
- 51,004
- 6
Mike Phillips
Active member
- Dec 5, 2022
- 51,004
- 6
And thank you for the kind words.
It use to be there were about a half dozen "detailing personalities" that wrote car detailing how-to articles... not so much anymore...
:dunno:
In theory that sounds about right on paper.
If the paint is in the medium hard to hard range then in practice, if you're trying to remove below surface defects, (that means remove paint), then you're going to have to put some passion behind the pad.
Wow Mike, thanks for replying while you are probably having your breakfast. Appreciate it!
Mine is a Japanese car so chances are it has a soft paint.
Only 1 way to find out...
But probably not now. Too busy preparing for the 1st baby