From the beginning. Cut, buff

[Skip99]

New paint, base clear...wet sanded with 800,1000,..up to 2500,
Ive always used a rotary makita, usually a compound first followed by polish. They have always tirned out nice.
Ive used wizards turbo cut on a white 3m pad recently, followed by wizards polish on a black pad.

I am now looking for better finishes, mostly. Black paint.
I just bought a flex 3401 ,and some different pads and polishes,
M205 and chem guys v36.
Huge difference!
But its mostly due to the flex polisher. Not a lot off diference in the wizards polish, pthe 205 or the v36.

So, now ive got a lot of mis matched stuff. Id like to try menzerna, and from what ive read, probably the hybrid pads.

So, what about my first rotary cut? What do you suggest? The
fg400 ? Still on a white pad? Its a 7 inch, or any other suggestion?
And what polishes? Just 2 or 3?
Fg400 and one of the ip?
Also...what about something to really bring out the black? Ive used meguiars 7? And a wizards show shine..these are mostly applied by hand

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Good choice....

Here's a simple plan...

After final sanding,

1. Cut with rotary buffer, wool cutting pad and Menzerna FG 400
2. Polish and remove holograms with Flex 3401, Lake Country Hybrid White Foam Polishing Pad.

Should be ready for LSP after 30 days air cure.

If you really want to maximize gloss, clarity and perfection, then do a second machine polishing step with a black Lake Country Hybrid Finishing pad and either SF 4000 and SF 4500


Then after 30 days air cure seal paint.


The above is a very simple approach that will tackle just about any fresh paint job and deliver show car results.

I tend to like to do my final polishing with a less powerful DA like a Porter Cable but the Flex 3401 will work.


And welcome to AGO!


:welcome:

 

[Skip99]

Thanks, i prefer a foam pad for first cut, any reccomendation?
Hook and loop pads..
What is lsp?
This paint has air dried for about two monthes, does itstill need to cure after final polish ?

So white and black are the only hybrids i need? No orange? Or blue? I figured i would need it for first cut? Or is it the fg400 that does the work now?

Seal paint with what? Ive really never used anything other than meguiars

And really? No medium polish? Seems lik a big jump

 

[Tato]

Great tips you got from Mike.

To add, if you like using foam pads I'd suggest you to step up your sanding to at least #3000, preferably #5000.

Not that an aggressive foam pad will not remove #2500 grit, but it'll take much more effort, more passes, increasing the risk of overheating the work area.

If you are not in a real hurry / time constraint, the sanding refining worth every millisecond you spend at it.

Although I like the Blue Hybrid pad and see it's role in polishing, I'd highly recommend you to go for the Orange, White and Black.

Also, depending on your car's design, you should take a look at LC 4" backing plate for the Flex (comes in a changeable backing plate kit), and the 5" Hybrids, again, orange, white and black.

When I place an hybrid pads order, I may get 5-6 orange, 5-6 white, 2-3 black.

Fact is, switching to a clean pad often is good practice, as it is cleaning your pad on the fly after each section.

Pad 'changing' during work also preserves all your pads instead of trashing one after another because of overuse.

Torn pads are not as great as 'like-new' pads.

Go for FG400 and SF4000 from Menzerna,

LSP = Last Step Product, generally the last product you'll use, and can add some protection to your finish, like wax, sealant or coating.

No big jump from FG400 to SF4000 (use it with white pad), it has a decent cut for a finishing polish (4/10 scale), and the finish you will leave using the Hybrid Orange and FG400 will be almost (using the term you just learned) LSP-ready.

Hope that helps,

Kind Regards.

 

[Skip99]

Great tips you got from Mike.

To add, if you like using foam pads I'd suggest you to step up your sanding to at least #3000, preferably #5000.

Not that an aggressive foam pad will not remove #2500 grit, but it'll take much more effort, more passes, increasing the risk of overheating the work area.

If you are not in a real hurry / time constraint, the sanding refining worth every millisecond you spend at it.

Although I like the Blue Hybrid pad and see it's role in polishing, I'd highly recommend you to go for the Orange, White and Black.

Also, depending on your car's design, you should take a look at LC 4" backing plate for the Flex (comes in a changeable backing plate kit), and the 5" Hybrids, again, orange, white and black.

When I place an hybrid pads order, I may get 5-6 orange, 5-6 white, 2-3 black.

Fact is, switching to a clean pad often is good practice, as it is cleaning your pad on the fly after each section.

Pad 'changing' during work also preserves all your pads instead of trashing one after another because of overuse.

Torn pads are not as great as 'like-new' pads.

Go for FG400 and SF4000 from Menzerna,

LSP = Last Step Product, generally the last product you'll use, and can add some protection to your finish, like wax, sealant or coating.

No big jump from FG400 to SF4000 (use it with white pad), it has a decent cut for a finishing polish (4/10 scale), and the finish you will leave using the Hybrid Orange and FG400 will be almost (using the term you just learned) LSP-ready.

Hope that helps,

Kind Regards.

Thanks, helps a lot. What would be the best combo for the first cut then, if i stay with foam...orange hybrid and fg400?

 

[Tato]

Welcome, feel free to ask if you need more info.

Orange Hybrid and FG400 is a very capable combination.

However, you'll have to work product correctly in order to get the expected results.

My suggestion if for you to spread it over the area (not too large, at least for the test spot), work it with FIRM (but not heavy) pressure keeping the pad compressed flat on the surface.

The arm speed should be slow - and you will do overlapping passes (~50% of your last pass) - side to side, then up / down. You will likely do 4-5 passes this way, then release the pressure and using only the weight of the machine, continue slowly (but not too slow now), and do more 2 passes this way (one time side to side, other up / down). This will help towards finishing your work.

Stop and wipe down residue (which should be a breeze to remove). Inspect your results using a swirl finder light.

I'd suggest for you to start with speed as low as ~3-3.5, but that doesn't necessarily means you cannot / will not need work the product at higher speeds.

After doing the test area with the settings I'm proposing, you'll do fine adjustments in work area size, number of passes, polisher speed, arm speed, pressure, product quantity, etc.

If you wish, after working FG400 and orange pad, you can re-do the section using FG400 on white pad. In the end, you can use SF4000 on black/gray finishing pad.

Otherwise you can go from FG400 on orange directly to SF4000 on white or even gray... everything will depend on the test spot, and how you'll 'solve the equation' before proceeding to work the whole car.

Let us know,

Kind Regards.

 

[fly07sti]

FG400 w/ orange hybrid can finish down very well. If there is a little haze left over, SF4000 on a white or black hybrid pad will maximize your shine by removing any haze left from compounding. And if you are really trying to get every last ounce of shine, use SF4500 on gold LC pad to jewel your paint.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Thanks, i prefer a foam pad for first cut, any recommendation?

I like the Orange and Blue Hybrid pads for foam cutting pads with a rotary, make sure to have the right backing plate for the backing. I'm in a hotel in Indiana not my normal desktop computer so I'm not what I would consider in "power mode" for typing out answers or locating and sharing links. I have links to the right backing plates for both sizes of Hybrids for rotary.

I know some guys like to cut out sanding marks with a foam pad but I'm not one of them. Wool acts as a more powerful abrasive in combination with your abrasive as compared to foam and buffs a LOT cooler than foam pads. So when it comes to remove sanding marks, a process that already takes a long time, I go with wool. It's more effective too... but hey... go with what works for you.

If you want to cut with foam pads and you're going to be doing this for a business, take a look at the Meguiar's M101 Foam Pad Compound. I've used this as prescribed and it's the bomb for this type of cutting.






Hook and loop pads..

What is lsp?

What's funny about this is LSP is a term I coined back in the 1990's that stands for Last Step Product. This is the LAST thing you apply to the paint which for most people would be a car wax or synthetic paint sealant but it could also be a cleaner/wax or even a non-sealing glaze like #7 Show Car Glaze or 3M Imperial Hand Glaze. I have an article on this somewhere...

This paint has air dried for about two months, does it still need to cure after final polish ?

No, it's cured and hardened by now. After cutting and buffing seal her up with a wax or sealant.

So white and black are the only hybrids i need? No orange? Or blue? I figured i would need it for first cut? Or is it the fg400 that does the work now?

When I posted my first answer I assumed, (my bad), you were going to cut with wool. See my recommendation about foam cutting pads above.

Seal paint with what? Ive really never used anything other than Meguiar's

Meguiar's makes some great waxes, go with what you know.

And really? No medium polish? Seems like a big jump

When I was typing my first post, if you look at the time stamp it was right before I walked out of the office, (to help you), before leaving for the airport. I'm in Evansville, Indiana right now and shooting TV with Dennis Gage starting at 8:30am tomorrow.

What I meant to post was if you're going to go with Menzerna then get

Fg 400 --> Cut with this
SI 1500 --> Medium Cut Polish with white foam polishing pad.
SF 4000 or SF 4500 for final show car finish

Best I can do from my laptop on the bed in my hotel room.

 

[Skip99]

Re: From the beginning. Cut, buffs

Ok, really appreciate all this. No hurry on a reply, ill be at firestation til thursday..
The process that works for me is to use the rotary to cut, followed by the flex, then polish with rotary followed by flex.
Im doing only cars that i have restored and painted.
So,,, gonna get the menzena fg400 to use first. Then the ip2000, then 4500.
Im not against trying a wool pad for the first cut and buff. So to get the 71/2 pad, for a rotary , what do you suggest?
Foamed wool? Or if straight wool..the cutting or polishing wool?
Since im using the rotary first with fg400 . Will i need the orange or blue in the hybrid for the flex ?
Or is it better to use the coarser orange or blue with fg400 after i use the rotary.
Not looking to save time...just want the best finish possible..
Ive painted and restord for 25 years, just looking toadvance the final finish
Thanks again..

 

[Skip99]

Ok all done...placed an order, got ccs, wool and hybrid pads
And the menzerna.
Ill let ya know how it goes,
Thanks!

 

[photobiker]

From someone new to the cut and buff program. In the past a good paint job was good enough. But with all these cool products to work with I just had to branch out and give cut and buff a try. I like the end result. It is a better finished product by miles. Most of my paint work has been clear coat repaints. And let me add I'm using single stage paint. On the first couple I was scared of that wool pad since it is a serious cutting pad and I didn't want to "cut" through to primer. What happened? I left sanding marks in the paint. My final sanding paper was 2000 grit. You have to look for them, but they're there. Can the owner see them? You kidding. But I can. I'm working on a way to get that car back in the garage so I can get those sanding marks out of the paint, with a wool pad. I'm just don't think you can get the sanding marks out with a foam pad, in a reasonable amount of time. On my next one I'm going to try finishing up with those 3M 3000 and 5000 grit sanding disk.
How much are you taking off with each buffing? This is something that will just take time to get a feel for. And it's a bit scary. That is why you don't shoot all of your paint.