Glaze under Opti Seal

[wanabe detailer]

If I use PoorBoy's White Diamond Glaze under Opti Seal, will I compromise length of time sealant will protect.

 

[Perfections]

Hmm that's a tough question. Normally with any other sealant I'd say for sure it would not bond correctly to the glaze. But optiseal is supposed to mitigate under with its high solvent content. So I'm not 100% either way.

 

[wanabe detailer]

Hmm that's a tough question. Normally with any other sealant I'd say for sure it would not bond correctly to the glaze. But optiseal is supposed to mitigate under with its high solvent content. So I'm not 100% either way.

thanks I appreciate your input

 

[PiPUK]

No. Glazes are basically just low volatility, high refractive index oils. They do not cure and do not yield a hard finish. As we all know, durability is very low because they will dissolve and wash away with wash solutions. In the same way, the solvents which carry opticoat will almost immediately redissolve the glaze resulting in the oils being dispersered through the opticoat. This will mean that the bonding onto the substrate will be compromised as well as the cross linking within the coat itself.

So if Opticoat is indeed the technology it is marketed as - glazing first will be definite no.

 

[FUNX650]

If I use PoorBoy's White Diamond Glaze under Opti Seal, will I compromise length of time sealant will protect

So if Opticoat is indeed the technology it is marketed as - glazing first will be definite no.

.

Lately...
There have been several AGO members with similar concerns as this OP has in regards to:
Glazes under Sealants...Which Opti-Seal is described to be...
Not a Coating, such as Opti-Coat.

If you would...
What insight about the above issue [Glazes under Sealants (and: Waxes, as far as that goes)]
does your Chemistry-background give you, that you are able to share with us?

Any information will be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.



Bob

 

[PiPUK]

Oh my apologies - I misread.

I'll do a bit of reading on Opti-seal later, just in case the general view is not applicable.

Many sealants are simply blends of silicon based molecules in either carrier oils or emulsified to use water as the carrier (increasingly popular to meet VOC regulations). Whilst there are numerous reactive (crosslinking) and film forming ingredients used, it is extremely common that basic dimethicone will be used to customise the performance. This can be for anything ranging from anti-mar through to adding colour depth. Unlike the coating type products, the reactives and film formers here are relatively insensitive to contamination - they pretty much work on anything. You can apply to paint, often to glass, tiles, wood - well you get the idea. Anyhow, the important point is that many 'sealants' will effectively be supercharged glazes - glazes with expensive additions to make them much much more durable. So applying them over the top of a glaze is unlikely to cause serious issue. What you might now be thinking is what actually occurs when you do this layering? Well you cannot avoid the fact that you will compromise the glaze. When you apply something on top, the glaze will be at least partially redissolved. In the case of a solvent based sealant, chances are you will pretty much totally redissolve the glaze and the finish you end up with will be a mix of sealant and glaze. This links into another recent thread where someone was asking about the mixing of products - this is one instance where you could well end up with a result pretty much identical to just mixing products in the bottles.

Waxes, whilst generally hydrocarbon based, commonly have silicon based molecules which enhance performance. Now the high viscosity of waxes means the degree to which they lift the wax is something I cannot be sure of. I would be fairly sure there will, as with sealants, be a measure of mixing but, again, I doubt this is going to cause massive issue.

Overall I think it mostly has to come down to user preference. I personally think that a well formulated sealant or wax should provide much of the benefits a glaze traditionally gives but that does not account for personal preferences so I can see that some people may prefer the 'mixes'. However, we are talking about each product interacting differently with others so it really is going to be a trial and error thing. I would definitely advise an inexperienced user to start with a good sealant and add a glaze later if they really feel something is missing. But it is a similarly reasonable approach to just say that the sealant isn't right and you should change the sealant.

As you can probably gather, this makes the mixing of sealants and glazes as a bit of an art form!

 

[FUNX650]

Oh my apologies - I misread.

I'll do a bit of reading on Opti-seal later, just in case the general view is not applicable.

Many sealants are simply blends of silicon based molecules in either carrier oils or emulsified to use water as the carrier (increasingly popular to meet VOC regulations). Whilst there are numerous reactive (crosslinking) and film forming ingredients used, it is extremely common that basic dimethicone will be used to customise the performance. This can be for anything ranging from anti-mar through to adding colour depth. Unlike the coating type products, the reactives and film formers here are relatively insensitive to contamination - they pretty much work on anything. You can apply to paint, often to glass, tiles, wood - well you get the idea. Anyhow, the important point is that many 'sealants' will effectively be supercharged glazes - glazes with expensive additions to make them much much more durable. So applying them over the top of a glaze is unlikely to cause serious issue. What you might now be thinking is what actually occurs when you do this layering? Well you cannot avoid the fact that you will compromise the glaze. When you apply something on top, the glaze will be at least partially redissolved. In the case of a solvent based sealant, chances are you will pretty much totally redissolve the glaze and the finish you end up with will be a mix of sealant and glaze. This links into another recent thread where someone was asking about the mixing of products - this is one instance where you could well end up with a result pretty much identical to just mixing products in the bottles.

Waxes, whilst generally hydrocarbon based, commonly have silicon based molecules which enhance performance. Now the high viscosity of waxes means the degree to which they lift the wax is something I cannot be sure of. I would be fairly sure there will, as with sealants, be a measure of mixing but, again, I doubt this is going to cause massive issue.

Overall I think it mostly has to come down to user preference. I personally think that a well formulated sealant or wax should provide much of the benefits a glaze traditionally gives but that does not account for personal preferences so I can see that some people may prefer the 'mixes'. However, we are talking about each product interacting differently with others so it really is going to be a trial and error thing. I would definitely advise an inexperienced user to start with a good sealant and add a glaze later if they really feel something is missing. But it is a similarly reasonable approach to just say that the sealant isn't right and you should change the sealant.

As you can probably gather, this makes the mixing of sealants and glazes as a bit of an art form!

Thank you, Kind Sir, for posting this invaluable information!!

(I hope that everyone concerned about this subject matter takes note.)


Now...
Although I have been guilty of "mixing" glazes with waxes and sealants, upon vehicles' panels/surfaces...
I usually attempt to stay within a given product-line---Synergy as it were <<<(Mike Phillips).

I'll add:
I have usually been satified with the results of doing so.

Thanks again.



Bob

 

[PiPUK]

I don't think it is a sin to do it at all but I do think it is possible to get the same results from a single product - finding that product may be tougher than doing the mix!