Glossmeter Testing: CQuartz Finest, Zaino, Carnauba?

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GeekGWCT

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Is anyone aware of Glossmeter testing of CQuartz Finest, Zaino or Carnauba wax?

CarPro posted a video showing the results of a Glossmeter on Cquartz UK (59.7 Gloss Units) but I haven't seen anything on CQuartz Finest.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFxuy7Tmb7E

I ordered a glossmeter and plan on testing the gloss of my car with Zaino and P21S 100% Carnauba Wax; however, I would assume that these types of tests have been done before and I am just not finding them. If it is already somewhere in the 1/2 million posts in the Auto Detailing 101 forum, I apologize.
 
id love to see the results, I don't have the coin to get a glossmeter, heck im so interested in seeing results id send you some of the many AIO's I have just to see how they compared in a head to head
 
Cquartz U.K. edition for me is the one to go for. Probably the easiest application process for a novice.

Great protection and superb shine, not overly expensive and has great protection capability. Use either that or gtechniq for my daily.
 
Cruzscarwash said:
After I wrote that I looked at that item, I haven't looked into glossmeters in years. For $130 I might get one but I think a 20° would be better no?

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The video posted by CarPro used 60 degrees. Whether 20 or 60 degrees, I suspect the relative answer would be the same. That is the glossier product would score higher.

Glossmeters are used in the manufacturing process of cars and many other products. It is hard to image that are not used extensively in the research facility of every wax, sealant and coating manufacturer. For example, P21S Concours Carnauba wax and P21S 100% Carnauba (which costs about 60% more). What difference in gloss are you getting for that 60% premium? Any? Does the premium product deliver premium results... or did the marketing people at P21S just understand the people will pay a premium for 100% Carnauba because "it must be better with all of that Carnauba".

(Don't mean to appear to bash P21S. You could put any manufacturer in that sentence. Also, more importantly, I have no idea how their products objectively compare... which is kind of my point)

Custmsprty and Jmbrown415. Very nice cars. Thanks
 
Todd Cooperider did a great writeup on his Rhopoint IQ glossmeter and I definitely recommend you read through it (you will have to run a quick google search as it is off-forum).

I have a Rhopoint Novo-Gloss Trio and this will absolutely measure the differences in gloss units between different products on the surface. It does this accurately and consistently. The problem is all of the limitations and restrictions that I have to go through just to set the testing up properly in order to get those results. The other problem is as Todd mentions in his article, all but the latest and most expensive handheld glossmeters are solely measuring gloss. They do not have the ability to quantify surface clarity like the IQ model, they only measure the reflective output of the surface which is a very limited statistic when it comes to the realm of actual paint correction and surface improvement.

Here's Dodo Juice Red Mist peaking at 98 gloss units measured at the 20° angle:

33081285645_3faba3232b_z.jpg


Dodo Juice Future Armour peaking at 93.4:

32954392751_0094ba5b2c_z.jpg


The problem with my glossmeter is the viewing base is about 6" long and it's a flat metal surface. Metal on paint is not a good combination. But the meter is also extremely sensitive to any surface that is not incredibly flat. Any slight shift in the base through the natural curvature of the panel, flex of the panel caused by the weight of the meter, or just pressure of my hand placement can significantly throw the readings off to more than the actual differences of the gloss between LSP's and polishes. So it forces me to require an extremely flat and level surface for testing, and this is why I'm doing readings off of a plastic laptop cover instead of on the actual paint of the test cars.

The individual panel can differ greatly in gloss readings by just moving to another area on the surface. I can move a centimeter on the surface and see a drop in 2 gloss units even after extensive polishing, and have a range of 89 - 99 gloss units over a 6" track. The good thing about the Rhopoint is it will measure continuously so long as the read button is pressed, so it will shoot out multiple readings a second and I can see slight measurement changes as I scan across the surface. So if I stay on a consistent area and track up and down, I will eventually come to a point in the test area that is giving me a peak gloss reading. And the peak gloss area is always in the same spot on the panel between every product. The problem is this type of meter scanning is not going to end well on paint I actually care about because moving the gloss meter like this will 100% leave deep rids/scratches behind. I will need to track down really flat painted test panels for actual clearcoat testing, but the laptop cover has been a great test subject, it reacts to polishing/waxing/sealing and I'm getting results that I can absolutely say are a result of the product's peak gloss performance, at least on this type of surface.
 
IMO:
Smoothness begets Gloss.

I don't have that much confidence
in LSPs making surfaces that much
"smoother"---that's polishing's function.

Sure...
Glossmeters can provide a specific
measuring-service for the Detailer.

However...
My priority would be in measuring
the amount of Distinctness-of-Image
(D.O.I.) that an LSP can/will provide.



Bob
 
Loach. First of all, thank you. Second, thank you again. Third, this is just the sort of thing I have been looking for. Your numbers on the Dodo Juice products are appreciated. Your point on gloss meters only measuring gloss is taken; however, it seems that is still serves its purpose. For example, if you are trying to decide between Dodo Juice Red Mist and Brand X, that is a decision that is separate from paint correction.

Fourth, I completely agree with Todd's point below...
"What does the Rhopoint IQ mean to the detailing industry? Change. BIG change! Not only will tools like this enable the industry to quantify results, but it will also push it into modern times where subjective claims are no longer acceptable."
"Imagine for just a minute that you are the customer who is shopping for a high level detailer. One detailer you speak with tells you that it will look “a lot” better, and the other tells you that you can expect a 20-25% increase (for instance) in image quality…verifiable. I’m going out on a limb here to say you’re probably going to choose the one who can qualify his / her statements."

Fifth, I would LOVE to see something like the linked test below done with the same Glossmeter at the same angle under the same conditions/weather, etc... For example, I am not really certain how to compare your Dodo Juice Red Mist test of 98 gloss units at 20 degrees using one glossmeter on one surface to CarPro's Quartz UK 59.7 gloss units at 60 degrees using a different glossmeter on a different surface.
Biggest Wax Test Ever - Detailing World
Final question... does the underlying color affect the gloss reading? In the test above, the underlying color on the panel changes.

Again, thanks. Very helpful post.
 
FUNX650 said:
IMO:
Smoothness begets Gloss.

I don't have that much confidence
in LSPs making surfaces that much
"smoother"---that's polishing's function.

Sure...
Glossmeters can provide a specific
measuring-service for the Detailer.

However...
My priority would be in measuring
the amount of Distinctness-of-Image
(D.O.I.) that an LSP can/will provide.



Bob
Click to expand...


Thanks FUNX650.
It seems that Loach, FUNX650 and Todd Cooperider are all agree. Gloss isn't everything. I am not saying orange peel doesn't matter; however, if the least expensive objective tool for measuring Distinctiveness of Image (DOI) is the Rhopoint IQ at $4,795, I (personally) am going to have to live with a subjective measure of DOI.
Lastly, (and I may be thinking of this differently than others), I think of gloss for the most part as a product I can order and have delivered to my door in a jar by AutoGeek (and others). I think of paint correction as a skill that can't be ordered from AutoGeek. What I am trying to understand is the answer to the gloss product question... but I understand that this is not the only question (e.g. paint correction, longevity, cost, etc...).
Thanks again.
 
GeekGWCT said:
Fourth, I completely agree with Todd's point below...
"What does the Rhopoint IQ mean to the detailing industry? Change. BIG change! Not only will tools like this enable the industry to quantify results, but it will also push it into modern times where subjective claims are no longer acceptable."
"Imagine for just a minute that you are the customer who is shopping for a high level detailer. One detailer you speak with tells you that it will look “a lot” better, and the other tells you that you can expect a 20-25% increase (for instance) in image quality…verifiable. I’m going out on a limb here to say you’re probably going to choose the one who can qualify his / her statements."

.
Click to expand...


first thank you everyone for all great points,

geekGWCT this is why im thinking of getting the glossmeter, im trying to find different ways to set myself apart and then prove without a doubt that my statements/actions are correct. I think this would be a great way to show that
 
Cruzscarwash said:
first thank you everyone for all great points,

geekGWCT this is why im thinking of getting the glossmeter, im trying to find different ways to set myself apart and then prove without a doubt that my statements/actions are correct. I think this would be a great way to show that
Click to expand...

To be clear, Todd's quote was specifically related to the Rhopoint IQ, an instrument that measures DOI, RIQ (Reflective Image Quality) and RSPEC (Specular Reflection ) in addition to Gloss Units.
IMO Glossmeters are best used to simply measure the gloss of product used and not the talent of a detailer. That is... (I believe) that the worst detailer and the best detailer should get around 98 gloss units when using Dodo Juice Red Mist. However, the worst and best detailer would be very different in paint correction and thus would get very different RIQ (Reflective Image Quality) scores.
Having said that... in Todd's article the gloss units on the Corvette went from 56 to 93.4 or a 67% improvement. I would think that being able to quantify gloss improvement would be worth a $133 investment in a Gloss meter but being able to quantify RIQ (Reflective Image Quality) might not be worth the $4,795 cost of the Rhopoint IQ. If I were in the detail business, I would think about giving customers a report on THEIR car with gloss units pre and post detailing with some sort of indication of how that number might decline over time (when they should think about coming back)... and find out if they care. If they didn't care, I wouldn't even think about buying a Rhopoint IQ to measure additional factors.

Gloss Meters and Automotive Paint | Esoteric Car Care
 
GeekGWCT said:
To be clear, Todd's quote was specifically related to the Rhopoint IQ, an instrument that measures DOI, RIQ (Reflective Image Quality) and RSPEC (Specular Reflection ) in addition to Gloss Units.
IMO Glossmeters are best used to simply measure the gloss of product used and not the talent of a detailer. That is... (I believe) that the worst detailer and the best detailer should get around 98 gloss units when using Dodo Juice Red Mist. However, the worst and best detailer would be very different in paint correction and thus would get very different RIQ (Reflective Image Quality) scores.
Having said that... in Todd's article the gloss units on the Corvette went from 56 to 93.4 or a 67% improvement. I would think that being able to quantify gloss improvement would be worth a $133 investment in a Gloss meter but being able to quantify RIQ (Reflective Image Quality) might not be worth the $4,795 cost of the Rhopoint IQ. If I were in the detail business, I would think about giving customers a report on THEIR car with gloss units pre and post detailing with some sort of indication of how that number might decline over time (when they should think about coming back)... and find out if they care. If they didn't care, I wouldn't even think about buying a Rhopoint IQ to measure additional factors.

Gloss Meters and Automotive Paint | Esoteric Car Care
Click to expand...


so that's what I was planning, I already send multiple progress pictures to show proof of work, but id like to add pre and post glossy readings on the client sheet as well, ive been messing around with different methods but I think this is the best
 
Cruzscarwash said:
so that's what I was planning, I already send multiple progress pictures to show proof of work, but id like to add pre and post glossy readings on the client sheet as well, ive been messing around with different methods but I think this is the best
Click to expand...

Great. I hope it helps your business. Just FYI... if you are planning on using the Glossmeter I mentioned, shipping takes about six weeks.
 
Cruzscarwash said:
so that's what I was planning, I already send multiple progress pictures to show proof of work, but id like to add pre and post glossy readings on the client sheet as well, ive been messing around with different methods but I think this is the best
Click to expand...

You could just fib the gloss number ratings... It's not as if any of your customers have their own gloss meters. Lol. J/k


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Eldorado2k said:
You could just fib the gloss number ratings... It's not as if any of your customers have their own gloss meters. Lol. J/k


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Or actually really care :joking: :buffing:
 
custmsprty said:
Or actually really care :joking: :buffing:
Click to expand...

Joking aside, I may be one of the few that take this statement with some validity. Without a point of reference, I don't think a client will have any understanding of what a 20% or 60% increase in image quality means. Without looking at specific examples and readings, I have no idea what the difference of 50 to 75 is, nor 75 to 90, and I don't expect a client to know either. That being the case, I think the majority of clients will still find more meaning and value in example work and general trust in the detailer.

It's certainly a tool to help the detailer advance their craft and nice to give the client something tangible, but I don't see it being a big marketing tool; too much education required for the client. The only way I see it being a 'game changer' is that it will literally change the one-uping game from how many layers of coating to how many DOI points.
 
I think that there is a lot of validity to that statement. Still if I were in the detailing business, I would try to find out.
I completely agree that most/all of the customers won't know the difference between 75 and 90 gloss units. However, that doesn't mean that they would not place value in their detailer knowing.
I have had many craftsmen in different areas do work for me over the years. I am comforted by the fact that they know more (often much more) about their craft than I do.
 
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