GTechniq CSL + C2V3 vs CSL + EXO + C2V3 - EXO worth it?

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nvestr

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Hi all,

I am hobbyist for my own vehicles and love to learn from other's experiences.

I recently coated my brand new XC90 (white pearl) with CSL only. Application was done in a heated garage in December and was subsequently exposed to harsh Atlantic Canadian roads. Water behavior on lower panels (below belt line) is very disappointing but seems to act as it should on hood and above the belt. I feel like perhaps my coating did not fully cure before it was exposed to harsh salts, slush, snow, etc., even though I definitely left the vehicle for around 30 hours in the garage before going outdoors. Either that or it got contaminated extremely fast.

I am waiting on an order of products to try to revive the coating (if it's contaminated, etc.). If I am able to return water sheeting to the lower panels, I am curious how to keep the higher water beading to improve self-cleaning, etc. I find CSL's self-cleaning to be below my expectations.

1) Do I decontaminate, clay, IPA wipe and then apply EXOv4 on top? Followed by monthly or semi-monthly applications of C2V3?

2) Do I decontaminate, clay, IPA wipe and then go straight to C2V3, skipping EXO? CSL is the hard, scratch resistant coating and is the one that adds the gloss. What exactly does EXO add to the picture if it's going to be topped with C2V3 anyway?

Just curious if I should bother with EXO or not, given that EXO is not cheap ($90 Canadian), is harder to work with than CSL and the labor involved is high.


Last question: Assuming that I am not able to revive CSL on the lower panels. Is it possible to try to reapply CSL on the lower panels without polishing? Obviously I would Iron-X, clay, IPA wipe, etc. before re-applying CSL but wonder if overlapping it will be problematic?
 
I'm not familiar with the Gtechniq offerings but IMO if you clay, you will need to polish. And that will remove what you've done already. So do decontaminate with Iron-X but skip the clay unless you plan on polishing afterwards.
 
If I were you I would do the decon wash but forget about the clay to not chance marring the paint. I would then coat it with can coat and apply that like every spring and fall. I would not try to do CSL on CSL without removing the coating 1st. Can Coat is quite hydrophobic and would to me be a much better option that the C2V3.

EXOv4 isn't much more difficult to use than CSL other than it is supposed to be done in two layers and requires a wait for flash between application and wipe off.
 
CLS is not designed to be layered. Don't apply a second layer of it for sure.

EXO is a topper product designed to give better hydrophobicity than CSL. So if you decide to add it, that is what you will be getting.

As others have said, do not clay. Claying is abrasive and will marr the coating. Just do the chemical decon steps.

I don't know how well EXO will be able to bind to CLS this long after the application of CSL. Normally you have a window of a few hours to do it.

I suggest you contact Gtechniq and ask them the questions you just did in this post. They are gonna be able to give you far better advice than we can.

As for performance of CSL. It's designed to be super durable. Gtechniq give a 5 year warranty on it when installed by authorized installers. It's not the most hydrophobic though. So just using a ceramic sealant as a drying aid (C2V3, Reload, HydroSilex, etc) will resolve the issue of it not beading and sheeting water like you would enjoy.
 
Thank you for all the replies!

I have always clayed and have never seen any marring. Perhaps it's because all my cars are white and it's not visible or that I use very mild clay with very little pressure and lots of lubricant. Either way, I won't risk it! Thanks for confirming that. I also won't layer CSL.

As for EXO needing to be applied within a specific window after CSL, I have never read that. I know there is a minimum but never read about a maximum amount of time until you can coat with EXO.
 
nvestr said:
1) Do I decontaminate, clay, IPA wipe and then apply EXOv4 on top? Followed by monthly or semi-monthly applications of C2V3?
Click to expand...

As others mentioned claying has the potential to marr the surface and could possibly affect the coatings performance. It won't remove it.

If you want to apply Exo then you can do a decon wash and a prep wipe prior to application. I would actually skip C2V3. Sure it beads nice and leaves the surface slick but the self cleaning effect is nowhere near that of Exo.

Actually I have C5 + Exo on my wheels and I noticed water spots on one wheel that guess what, was topped with C2V3. At one point water spotting was a complaint of C2V3.

nvestr said:
2) Do I decontaminate, clay, IPA wipe and then go straight to C2V3, skipping EXO? CSL is the hard, scratch resistant coating and is the one that adds the gloss. What exactly does EXO add to the picture if it's going to be topped with C2V3 anyway?

Just curious if I should bother with EXO or not, given that EXO is not cheap ($90 Canadian), is harder to work with than CSL and the labor involved is high.
Click to expand...

You have the option to just use C2V3 instead of Exo. Exo is a stand alone coating that is often used as a topper. It has better overall performance than C2V3 and as I mentioned a better self cleaning effect.

Exo is really not that much harder to work with. I would go with CSL + Exo.


nvestr said:
Last question: Assuming that I am not able to revive CSL on the lower panels. Is it possible to try to reapply CSL on the lower panels without polishing? Obviously I would Iron-X, clay, IPA wipe, etc. before re-applying CSL but wonder if overlapping it will be problematic?
Click to expand...

As mentioned CSL is a one layer coating. You could just follow up with Exo or C2V3 as a temporary solution. If it were me I would prep and polish after the winter season if there is no sign of revival and recoat with CSL + Exo.
 
nvestr said:
Thank you for all the replies!

I have always clayed and have never seen any marring. Perhaps it's because all my cars are white and it's not visible or that I use very mild clay with very little pressure and lots of lubricant. Either way, I won't risk it! Thanks for confirming that. I also won't layer CSL.

As for EXO needing to be applied within a specific window after CSL, I have never read that. I know there is a minimum but never read about a maximum amount of time until you can coat with EXO.
Click to expand...

I might be wrong. Again asking Gtechniq would give you the most accurate information. The way I understand it, the topper coating should be applied during the curing period of the base coating (which is about a week for most coatings). I can't point you to where I read it, I read and watch videos everyday so the source is never something I can point to when it comes to my knowledge ;( This information might be wrong. So if you intend to do it asking Gtechniq would be best.

As Guz mentionned, your other option would be to redo CLS then top with EXO after polishing the paint. CSL and EXO are sold in a kit that cost less than buying both seperatelly. So the extra cost would be minimal over just buying EXO alone. Of course that means a lot more work since you would have to polish the car and coat it twice.

As for C2V3, I purchased a bottle of that product last year and was underwelmed by it. I have been using CarPro Reload for about 3 years and to me, C2V3 is not as good when it comes to gloss of the paint. Maybe it is more durable, impossible for me to tell, but from the standpoint of looks, I would take Reload any day.
 
C2V3 has the same durability as Reload from my side by side testing. I got about 2 weeks out of both.
 
Unfortunately I ordered a 500ml bottle of C2V3 last week. Will give it a try - won't be the last time I waste $40 on something lol.

I will try to revive the coating with Iron-X, APC and few baths in CarPro Reset. Is there something else I should be using to decontaminate? I know Tar-X is not recommended on coatings.

I just found this on GTechniq's EXO instructions :

If you are applying over CSL, EXOv4 can either be applied straight away after you have finished applying CSL starting the process at the same place you did with CSL and following the same order of panels you did with CSL, or it can be applied up to 24 hours after finishing the CSL application

You were right, Calendyr - thank you. I guess I will do my best to use C2V3 to get some hydrophobicity on top of my CSL application.

I have a new car on order that arrives in May. 2019 BMW X3 M40i in Alpine White. As it's a non-metallic white, I definitely want to add some gloss and depth to the paint. For that one, I will do CSL + EXOv4. From there I will be able to compare both of the vehicles and see if I want to polish and re-apply with EXO on the XC90 or if I'm satisfied with frequent applications of C2V3 (or something else when I run out).
 
There you go. I read it in the instructions for the coating ;) I wish I could remember the sources when I have knowledge about something.

C2V3 will still give you water beading and all that... it just doesn't make the paint glossy like Reload does.
 
Guys - I did a full wash with Reset last night (wow that stuff works well, my first time using it!). Also did a full Iron-X decontamination with some heavy elbow grease (using a soft wax applicator as to not marr the surface) to take off the orange iron spots and other stuck on contaminants. I found it to be a lot of elbow grease to remove the contaminants, even after a 5-6 minute dwell time of Iron-X. Normally I would use clay to easily remove these contaminants after Iron-X but since I don't want to mar the surface, what else can I use chemically to decontaminate the coating? I am about to put in a product order today and curious if there is something else I should be using? I know Tar-X should not be used on coated cars is it is high ph...

I ended up applying C2V3 after I finished the decontamination. Hopefully I will be happy with the water properties...
 
Don't think anyone else mentioned it but....for future use (if you are pleased with your results for your decon wash and initial application of C2V3) you could dilute your C2V3 1:1 with distilled water and use as a drying aid and include in your wash regiment.
 
TarX is solvent based and is ph neutral I think. But don't get fooled by the ph levels only as it's what chemicals in them that counts. And it's based on orange peel oils and refined petroleum. So take a look at the warnings below. Here in Sweden during the winter months we need to be useing tar remover every wash as a pretreatment. The studded winter tires breaks down the asphalt roads and the tar in it slings up from the tires. I used TarX today actually LOL. It's very fast working and smells also nice of citrus. As with all tar removers the bigger spots need a little aggitations or a second application of tar remover. I can post pictures later and show the tar mess we deal with. And I don't think that TarX will be getting at the coating. The toppers on the other hand that uses some oil based glossenhancer like Carpro Reload does for an example. It's going to desolve those so the gloss degrade then but the coating is not effected.

Nice to hear that Reset was liked. It's very great at cleaning the road film that is needed to be aggitated to be released. I feel like I need less aggitations when washing with Reset. And I use mf wash mitts and mf wash pads and mostly just 2 swipes is needed for getting it cleaned. If I see something not released I move on with that spot in mind and before switching the mf wash mitt I go back and the left spot has been soaking and often release with a couple of swipes. No pressure on the wash mitt just glide it over the paint back and forth. For maintance washes when I can wash regualary I have started to dilute Reset at 1:800 instead of the recommended 1:400. Reset has little of the orange peel oil in it to as TarX has.

Is it tar spots you have aggitated so hard on with the IronX? If you have a iron particals that is trouble to get off. Reapply IronX after rinsed and dryed and keep doing it to you see almost no bleeding effect. Then apply a last time and wipe it a little and gently with a mf towel that you can throw away. And that's useally gets the iron partical to be getting off. Why would you throw the towel away or use it as a wheel towel. Is so you don't touch the paint with a mf towel that has iron particals on it. It's not sure that washing them releasing the iron particals in it. A last tips is to start with the tar remover and then the iron remover. As tar can be holding the iron partical so it don't rinse off. And if you don't see any bleeding effect from the iron remover you don't need to use it as it will need another chemical to desolve what you are trying to remove. Different chemicals desolves different kind of dirt :)

Here are some tips that I copied and paste from Carpro UK.

Tar X is a (citrus based) solvent so it’s recommended that you apply it to a dry surface where it won’t be diluted by water.
After shaking the bottle and spraying onto a dry surface I allow it to dwell for anywhere from 3 to 10 minutes depending on how thick the tar is and the situation of the environment.
Agitate the area with a damp wash mitt or sponge before rinsing it off.
Tar X should not be allowed to dry on surfaces or be applied in direct sunlight.
Do not leave on the surface for more than 7 to 10 minutes or allow to dry.
If using Tar X as a spot treatment and run into stubborn tar you can take a sponge and apply some Tar X to it before using it to agitate the tar.

Precautions and Warnings:

Avoid sensitive clear plastics like headlights and clear bras. Headlights can re lightly re-polished but clear bras should be avoided completely,
WARNING : Do NOT let dry on plastic or other sensitive materials of possible damage may occur.
Avoid working under direct sunshine or hot surface.
Avoid spraying on acrylic paint surfaces, or poor after market acrylic paint, it may affect that surface and cause a possible bleaching affect.
Work in a well ventilated area.
We strongly recommend the used of eye protection, safety gloves and a dedicated face mask while working with any professional car care product which produces vapor or misting due to possible blow backs.

/ Tony
 
Another question for you guys - my new vehicle is arriving soon and I have already purchased bottles of CSL and EXOv4. I want to be sure to do it right this time. I forgot to order Gtechniq panel wipes during my last product order. Do you guys think I should be getting this dedicated product instead of diluting my own IPA solution?
 
nvestr said:
Another question for you guys - my new vehicle is arriving soon and I have already purchased bottles of CSL and EXOv4. I want to be sure to do it right this time. I forgot to order Gtechniq panel wipes during my last product order. Do you guys think I should be getting this dedicated product instead of diluting my own IPA solution?
Click to expand...

I think IPA will achieve the same results but the pre-mixed solutions should offer more lubricity which reduces the chance of you marring the paint before you coat it. I think for a pro that uses large volumes maybe mixing IPA at home makes sense but for the hobbyist doing it once or twice a year the brand products are better. Less risk and won't cost you a lot because you don't need much.
 
You could get some wax & grease remover spray from an autopart store
 
nvestr said:
Another question for you guys - my new vehicle is arriving soon and I have already purchased bottles of CSL and EXOv4. I want to be sure to do it right this time. I forgot to order Gtechniq panel wipes during my last product order. Do you guys think I should be getting this dedicated product instead of diluting my own IPA solution?
Click to expand...

Panel Wipe is made mostly of Acetone and Alcohol. You could mix you own by doing something like 50% acetone and 50% Isopropyl alcohol (99%). Would not be an exact match but close enough.

Isopropyl alcohol on it's own is not as effective as Acetone or other strong solvents.
 
Calendyr said:
Panel Wipe is made mostly of Acetone and Alcohol. You could mix you own by doing something like 50% acetone and 50% Isopropyl alcohol (99%). Would not be an exact match but close enough.

Isopropyl alcohol on it's own is not as effective as Acetone or other strong solvents.
Click to expand...

Isn't Acetone incredibly dangerous on clear coat? Not sure if I am comfortable as I know Acetone will eat clearcoat if exposed to it in sufficient quantities for a bit of time. Makes me a bit nervous... I don't think CarPro Eraser or Gtechniq Panel Wipe have any acetone content. I certainly do not want to screw up paint on brand new luxury cars if I miss wiping up a tiny bit of the acetone solution.
 
nvestr said:
Isn't Acetone incredibly dangerous on clear coat? Not sure if I am comfortable as I know Acetone will eat clearcoat if exposed to it in sufficient quantities for a bit of time. Makes me a bit nervous... I don't think CarPro Eraser or Gtechniq Panel Wipe have any acetone content. I certainly do not want to screw up paint on brand new luxury cars if I miss wiping up a tiny bit of the acetone solution.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I was thinking of Dupli Color Grease and wax remover : https://www.paintdocs.com/docs/webPDF.jsp?SITEID=DUPLI&prodno=CM541&doctype=SDS&lang=2

No acetone is safe for clearcoat. I have used it to remove road paint and I use Grease and wax remove as a prep very often. I believe what you are thinking of is paint thinner. I believe paint thinner can eat through clearcoat. But in terms of solvents, Acetone, Lacquer Thinner and Alcool are safe on Clear Coat. Although Mike did mention that IPA can make the paint swell for a while.

Panel wipe does smell like acetone, it has Ethyl Acetate in it, not sure if it is a related product. You can find the MDSD here: https://usa.gtechniq.com/ckfinder/userfiles/files/PANEL WIPE MSDS(1).pdf
 
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