Hard Black Audi Paint Finishing Hazy swirls/marks

[ToroInu]

Hello All!

Picked up a polisher(g9) for the first time and did some work on my 2019 Black Audi. I got off all the light swirls but was left some "marring." These look light blue hazy swirls/marks when I shine a light over it in the dark. In the sun, they look like a fine a scratch pattern. Attached is a pic of it in the sun.

Since it was my first time polishing and the car only 10k miles with minor defects, I was really hesitant in putting too much pressure down on the polisher or using too aggressive of a compound as I wanted to preserve the clear coat. So I decided to go with 3D One+Orange GG pad which wasn't really getting rid of the swirls. I did some research and saw that Audi is known to have hard paint so I switched to Meg ultimate compound + orange GG pad on speed 5 with moderate pressure, which got rid of all the swirls. However, this left those hazy marks/light scratches on the certain areas of the car(mainly driver side) when I looked for them in the dark. So I tried using the 3d one again+oranage pad to try to polish it out which left even more hazy marks.

I then tried Sonax perfect finish with a a handful of pads, Orange GG, Chemical guys orange, black, white Hex pads with a variety of speed/pressure/passes. All of which either did nothing, or left more hazy marks. Note: The Sonax was used the next day on either new pads, or fresh washed pads. I actually remember the sonax causing more hazy swirls on the trunk, and I decided to go over it with an orange + 3d one and fixed it. However, when I try using the 3d on other parts of the cars that had the hazy swirls, it did nothing, or added more.

Pads were all primed with 4-5 dime size dots, rubbed the patted around the worked area, machine set to low speed to spread, and then worked up to higher speed. A hand full of washed 320gsm and new 360gsm microfiber cloth was used to wipe off compound/polish from the car.

Anyone got any tips for me?

Note: pic changed to better show defects.

 

[Desertnate]

The picture looks out of focus, so it's hard to tell what we're looking at.

You Audi sounds like a Porsche Cayenne I worked on last year. It's paint was even harder than my black VW GTI, which I thought was pretty hard.

For the Porsche I used a compound and a correcting pad similar to the orange GG pads you used. Just like in your situation it left compounding haze which is to be expected. I then went back over the vehicle with a finishing polish and pads similar to the GG yellow. It wasn't easy and both the compounding and the polishing took quite a while.

I hate to say this, but you may need to change up your products and maybe your pads. I was never very impressed with Meg's Ultimate Compound. It wasn't very aggressive, and I didn't think it finished out as well as other products. From what I understand the Sonax product is very similar to their 04-06 product I've used. It's a good polish, but has very little correction ability. I tend to only use it on very soft paint. 3D One seems to have a good following here, and I'm surprised it didn't finish out better for you after the compound. I used the DP Compound and Polish on the Cayenne. They both finished out pretty good, but they aren't the easiest to work with. I'm really fond of the Griots BOSS polishing products right now.

Hopefully someone familiar with your pads can provide more input on that area. I know after doing the Porsche I really wished I'd had a few MF cutting pads for the compounding step.

 

[ToroInu]

The picture looks out of focus, so it's hard to tell what we're looking at.

You Audi sounds like a Porsche Cayenne I worked on last year. It's paint was even harder than my black VW GTI, which I thought was pretty hard.

For the Porsche I used a compound and a correcting pad similar to the orange GG pads you used. Just like in your situation it left compounding haze which is to be expected. I then went back over the vehicle with a finishing polish and pads similar to the GG yellow. It wasn't easy and both the compounding and the polishing took quite a while.

I hate to say this, but you may need to change up your products and maybe your pads. I was never very impressed with Meg's Ultimate Compound. It wasn't very aggressive, and I didn't think it finished out as well as other products. From what I understand the Sonax product is very similar to their 04-06 product I've used. It's a good polish, but has very little correction ability. I tend to only use it on very soft paint. 3D One seems to have a good following here, and I'm surprised it didn't finish out better for you after the compound. I used the DP Compound and Polish on the Cayenne. They both finished out pretty good, but they aren't the easiest to work with. I'm really fond of the Griots BOSS polishing products right now.

Hopefully someone familiar with your pads can provide more input on that area. I know after doing the Porsche I really wished I'd had a few MF cutting pads for the compounding step.

thanks for the reply! The picture is actually in focus. The white blotches are clouds and you can see horizontal hazes/marks. It was the beet pic I could get because it’s quite hard to see unless I really look for it.

when you were using the GP compound and polish, how much pressure did you put down on the machine? I remember I was putting down my whole shoulder at one point, and the panel wasn’t even heating up… might need to hit the gym some more because this Audi giving me a workout

 

[2wookies]

Thats too much pressure!! Make sure you’re working in a 2x2 area and pay attention to the pad, make sure it’s not stalling. I’m guessing you need to work on arm speed first, and then try slowing down the machine to 4.

 

[ToroInu]

Thats too much pressure!! Make sure you’re working in a 2x2 area and pay attention to the pad, make sure it’s not stalling. I’m guessing you need to work on arm speed first, and then try slowing down the machine to 4.

I did do everything you mentioned. Putting my shoulder down was a last resort in trying to get rid of the stubborn haze. All of which did nothing. I’m guessing I just need more aggressive compound/polish + pad combo. Again when I started, I had the mentality of going “easy” on the clear coat but after realizing the paint is hard as a rock, I can use my aggressive products. I read some where that someone finished the car with an orange pad whereas most would use orange to cut

 

[2black1s]

thanks for the reply! The picture is actually in focus. The white blotches are clouds and you can see horizontal hazes/marks...

As best I can tell, those horizontal "hazes/marks" are not hazing at all. They appear to be scratches/smudges that have not yet been removed.

DA hazing would manifest itself as circular pigtails, not straight lines, like you have shown and described.

If that is the case, I think you just need to continue polishing... Either more passes with your existing pad/product - or- step up the aggressiveness of one or both.

Contrary to Desertnate's experience with Meguiar's Ultimate Compound, I have found it to be plenty aggressive in most cases and to finish down better than most compounds, although I will usually follow it up with a finishing polish. I have no experience with some of the other products you mention.

... Again when I started, I had the mentality of going “easy” on the clear coat...

I think this is your main issue. Clear coat, while thin, is much tougher than many will realize. It would take an insane amount of polishing with a DA to ever strikethrough in the middle of a flat panel like that shown. Like I previously stated, my opinion is that you have not polished enough yet to remove the blemishes.

 

[Desertnate]

Be careful going more aggressive since aggressive product/pad selection is what is causing the haze in the first place. A compound and correcting pad will get rid of bad swirls and scratches, but the side effect is a hazy finish which you must refine with a second step of a finishing polish. Going too aggressive will just make it more hazy.

Getting a good working pad/product combination is key. When I polished out that Cayenne I was not putting a lot of weight behind the polisher. At the time, I was using my old Harbor Freight DA which is less powerful than your G9. I used the DP Compound with an Orange Lake Country ThinPro pad and followed up with DP Polish with LC White ThinPro and Flat pads. Each section got about 8 cross hatch passes which did the job, but did heat up the pads pretty good. I had to swap them out quite frequently. If I had to do it over again, I would use the BOSS polishes (which I didn't have at the time) and probably tried out some MF Polishing pads for the compounding step to make the correction faster. Final polishing would probably still be with the finishing polish and the white pads.

 

[oneheadlite]

As best I can tell, those horizontal "hazes/marks" are not hazing at all. They appear to be scratches/smudges that have not yet been removed.

DA hazing would manifest itself as circular pigtails, not straight lines, like you have shown and described.

If that is the case, I think you just need to continue polishing... Either more passes with your existing pad/product - or- step up the aggressiveness of one or both.

I'm with John on this one - When looking at your picture, those straight line marks aren't going to be caused by the machine work. DA Haze will be more uniform/circular/pigtail looking. Were those straight line marks there when you started, and just haven't been removed yet due to factors mentioned above?

Otherwise, if they truly appeared after polishing then I would look at your after polishing steps/materials - CLEAN, quality microfibers for compound/polish wipe off and not using too much pressure for wipe off that could induce it's own marring.

Having a 2 Audi house, I can attest that sometimes you just need to roll through a couple more section passes than you might originally think to get the results you're expecting. And for deeper blemishes I have had to move up in pad aggressiveness. I used Griot's Fast Correcting Cream on the Mrs' Phantom Black Q5 and had it finish down surprisingly well; though wanting to be able to keep carrying my Autogeek Card I followed it with Perfecting Cream just for good measure. :laughing:

In your shoes, I would pick a lower visibility spot and really work out the whole process that will get you the results you're looking for before applying it elsewhere on the car. (Edit: Don't think you need to tape off the area for doing a test spot, that's mainly for youtube/instagram. Tape means you now have hard lines that you have to correct away)

 

[ToroInu]

Thanks for all the advice! To clarify on the “horizontal lines” in the picture it was what I could show on camera. If I looked in person they look like swirls but not spider web swirls you would normally see say from a non polished car. I’ll have to try to find a better picture. The one posted is on the trunk is the far least noticeable part. The driver side panels is where I was getting the most swirls but at the time I took this picture, the driver side wasn’t facing the sun. These swirls on the driver side when shined in the dark has a blue tint to it.

I thought by using the Sonax perfect finish with a variety of pads and passes would do the trick but it had no affect. I believe I was doing 5-6 crosshatch passes at speed 4. There are times when I’m polishing with the perfect finish and I can see it getting worst. I’d swap back over to the meguiars or 3D and it’ll decrease some swirls but still left those “blue tinted swirls”

I agree, I’ll have to get some more aggressive product, I found a user in the Audi using a MF to cut and a yellow rupee to finish.

I’m thinking about giving the menzerna line up a shot.

 

[ToroInu]

Heres a better pic of the "hazy swirls"

 

[2black1s]

My opinion remains the same as previously stated in Post #6... You haven't polished aggressively enough or long enough yet. I think your concern over "preserving the clear coat" is getting in your way... It is your process/technique, fueled by your concern over removing the clear coat, that is holding you back more than the products/tools you are using.

The defects that I can make out in your pics should be no problem for the Meguiar's Ultimate Compound and your G9 with the orange pad. If the UC and orange pad leave any micro marring, then follow up with Ultimate Polish and a yellow pad, but only after you have first removed the primary blemishes with the UC and orange pad.

And just a footnote… I think your title and description of the blemishes as “hazy swirls” is a bit misleading. Hazy swirls while finishing tends to indicate micro marring or DA haze. That is not what your pictures show.

As best as I can tell from your pics, you are dealing with isolated deeper blemishes (abrasions, scratches, smudges) than simply “hazy swirls”, and the remedies for each of those are very different.

An accurate description of the problem will help in getting relevant advice.

 

[ToroInu]

My opinion remains the same as previously stated in Post #6... You haven't polished aggressively enough or long enough yet. I think your concern over "preserving the clear coat" is getting in your way... It is your process/technique, fueled by your concern over removing the clear coat, that is holding you back more than the products/tools you are using.

The defects that I can make out in your pics should be no problem for the Meguiar's Ultimate Compound and your G9 with the orange pad. If the UC and orange pad leave any micro marring, then follow up with Ultimate Polish and a yellow pad, but only after you have first removed the primary blemishes with the UC and orange pad.

And just a footnote… I think your title and description of the blemishes as “hazy swirls” is a bit misleading. Hazy swirls while finishing tends to indicate micro marring or DA haze. That is not what your pictures show.

As best as I can tell from your pics, you are dealing with isolated deeper blemishes (abrasions, scratches, smudges) than simply “hazy swirls”, and the remedies for each of those are very different.

An accurate description of the problem will help in getting relevant advice.

Thanks for the speedy reply. I agree that I was hesitant with the clear coat and will likely be more aggressive the next time I pick up the g9. However, I don’t know if I can agree with you about these being primary blemishes. As stated, I recall only seeing minor swirls that you would commonly see in unpolished vehicles which all were removed. I guess there could be a chance there blemishes were hiding after the car was strip washed, iron removed, clay bar before polishing. But I really don’t think that’s the case. As some have stated, the Meg + orange may work well for most cars but consider this is a more stubborn paint, it may have just left the clear coat marred/unfinished and the perfect finish is too gentle to get rid of it. Again, I’ll be getting more aggressive products. Like the menzerna 400 with MF pad to see if I can get a better finish.

As someone who is new, Hazy swirls is the best description I had as when I shine the light over it in the dark, it creates a hazy, blurry reflection showcasing swirls around it.