Hard Clearcoats (Ceramic)

[kdubski]

Hey AG,

Need some input regarding hard clear coats. I recently had 2 cars come in that required serious TLC:
-2014 GMC Denali (BLACK)
-2006 Audi A6 (DARK BLUE)

Both cars were abused by automatic car washes, and the swirling was pretty severe. I compounded them with a rotary, using LC Yellow 5" pads and Menzerna FG400. I was shocked to find that I achieved barely 50-70% correction on these cars. The owners where satisfied because they where more interested in the sealant (SONAX PNS) than the correction level.

I was thoroughly dissapointed in myself because in most cases I can achieve 50-70% correction using LC Orange/White with Menz PF2500 or M205.

What are the secrets to a +90% correction rate on hard clearcoats being used by manufacturers such as GMC, Audi, & BMW?

 

[Billy Baldone]

Wool pad

 

[Mizzoutiger]

For my black Audi Q7...

Products.
- Compound/polish. Menzerna FG400 w/Flex 3401 w/LC 5" Orange Hybrid Pad (w/LC 4" backing plate adapter) and Menzerna SF4000 (w/LC 5" White Hybrid Pad)...OR
- Wolfgang Uber Compound 3.0 (like FG400) and Wolfgang Finishing Glaze 3.0 (like SF4000); note, Menzerna makes this Wolfgang pair for Autogeek and to me it's easier/better to use. I use same corresponding pads listed above.
- Glaze. Chemical Guys EZ-Creme glaze - excellent surface prep for LSP.
- LSP. Menzerna PL or Wolfgang Deep Gloss Paint Sealant 3.0; for "show-car" look, I'll top w/Pinnacle Souveran (wait 24 hrs after sealant)

- I also have Flex 14-2 rotary, but use Flex 3401 99% of the time.

Technique.
- I use Mike@DedicatedPerfection's "Smack" method http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...rning-3401-menzerna-products-hybrid-pads.html.
- Keys are to change out pads after each section, "go slow to go fast" (slow arm movement), with 6-8 passes.

Mike Phillips weighs in here http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...a5-sline-brilliant-black-swirl-removal-3.html

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Both cars were abused by automatic car washes, and the swirling was pretty severe.

So the first thing I would want to know before doing anything is if the vehicles will continue to be washed via automatic car washes?

If so, then his makes sense.....

The owners where satisfied because they where more interested in the sealant (SONAX PNS) than the correction level.

Don't put a show car finish on daily drivers that will be ran through automatic car washes.

See this article,


A few tips on starting a part-time detailing business
Match your services to your customer

I compounded them with a rotary, using LC Yellow 5" pads and Menzerna FG400. I was shocked to find that I achieved barely 50-70% correction on these cars.


I was thoroughly disappointed in myself because in most cases I can achieve 50-70% correction using LC Orange/White with Menz PF2500 or M205.

What are the secrets to a +90% correction rate on hard clearcoats being used by manufacturers such as GMC, Audi, & BMW?

I know the trend in the detail industry has been to get away from the rotary buffer but when it comes to removing mass amounts of paint fast, (major correction work), you can't beat a wool pad on a rotary buffer.


Here's a Ferrari Frank and I buffed out a few years ago and I tried to do the correction with the Flex 3401 with an orange Hybrid cutting pad and Uber Compound and while "yes" it was working it wasn't working fast enough for me or removing enough of the deeper scratches I wanted out of the paint.

So I switched over to the Flex PE14 with a wool pad and Uber Compound and took care of business.

From this thread,

How to wash Ferrari Wheels and Tires

Ferrari finished!

And here's the wheels and tires as well as the completed detail job to this Ferrari.

The paint was machine decontaminated using Nanoskin Autoscrub Pads on Porter Cable 7424XP DA Polishers.

The paint was then machine cut using the Flex PE14 with a wool pad and Uber Compound.

Next the paint was machine polished with the Flex 3401 with a 5" Hybrid Black Finishing Pad and Wolfgang Finishing Glaze.

After compounding and polishing the paint was machine waxed using Wolfgang Fuzion.

Sounds like your heart is in the right place but don't let it bother you that you don't put a show car finish on everything you detail.


:xyxthumbs:

 

[KS_Detailing]

Strange, I'm currently working on an abused GMC and the paint is soft. Correcting with m205. It's black too. I did a ceramic clear with mf disc an d300 worked well.

It be nice if there was a definitive guide to correction levels. Everyone's seems to be different. It's tough correcting paint and not getting every last thing out

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

I've never found the PPG Ceramiclear paint finishes on Mercedes-Benz to be what I would consider hard.

I see other people describe these paints as hard but that's not my experience. I'd say they were just right, not to soft, not to hard.

 

[kdubski]

I do use a guide that I downloaded off a forum from somewhere. It outlines all manufactures paint hardness by either hard, medium, soft, and what products achieved the best results. It isn't always 100% accurate but gives a good guide.

I ordered a Sonax Lambskin wool pad. I will be facing my fears on a SEVERELY swirled Black Audi A5. It's for a friend, so I am charging less, but will be going all out with the intention of 90% correction.

 

[kdubski]

So the first thing I would want to know before doing anything is if the vehicles will continue to be washed via automatic car washes?

If so, then his makes sense.....

Don't put a show car finish on daily drivers that will be ran through automatic car washes.

See this article,


A few tips on starting a part-time detailing business
Match your services to your customer








I know the trend in the detail industry has been to get away from the rotary buffer but when it comes to removing mass amounts of paint fast, (major correction work), you can't beat a wool pad on a rotary buffer.


Here's a Ferrari Frank and I buffed out a few years ago and I tried to do the correction with the Flex 3401 with an orange Hybrid cutting pad and Uber Compound and while "yes" it was working it wasn't working fast enough for me or removing enough of the deeper scratches I wanted out of the paint.

So I switched over to the Flex PE14 with a wool pad and Uber Compound and took care of business.

From this thread,

How to wash Ferrari Wheels and Tires








Sounds like your heart is in the right place but don't let it bother you that you don't put a show car finish on everything you detail.


:xyxthumbs:

Mike,

So I educated these two clients on the dangers of automatic car washes. This is why they chose to have a corrective service done, it was a means of "starting over". These cars will now be properly maintained.

The SONAX PNS was for premium markup. rops:

 

[Audios S6]

So the first thing I would want to know before doing anything is if the vehicles will continue to be washed via automatic car washes?

:

Yes. If the owner is going to continue to go to an automatic car wash, I discourage anything more than a polish and normally steer them toward an AIO.

I've had success on brilliant black and phantom black audis using a rupes 21, Meg's MF and D300, followed by m205 with rupes yellow very lightly.

I've also had to resort to 2 applications of fg400 with a wool and rotary on totally beat audi paint from the early 2000s.