Hard water etching time?

lee1dew

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When I came out to my car this morning, I noticed some water spots that were not there the night before. My guess is that one of my sprinkler heads is misaligned, or it was particularly windy when they went off, etc. I don't have time to wash the car until this weekend, so would it be a good idea to take off the water spots with Opti-clean when I get home tonight or can it wait until the weekend?

In general, how long does it take for hard water to cause etching?
 
Yikes, get that off as fast as possible! I used to get hit by a sprinkler and if I didn't get the water off while it was wet, I had spots. What I'm trying to say is they may not even come off now with your Opti-Clean. Of course, all water is different.
 
Get it off QUICK!!!! The longer you wait the more it will bake into the paint. If the car isn't dirty then Opticlean will work fine. After using that if there is anything left mist some vinegar mix on there and let it sit 30 seconds before buffing it off.
 
Happened to my baby too! Just took it out and neighbor's sprinkler was spraying all over the place and sprayed the front of my paint! :mad:

Immediately got out opti-clean and took care of em. Had to wash the whole front half of the car with it.

Followed by OCW and she was back to her shimmering self! :D

Almost all ppl here are inconsiderate! They were like, "whats the big deal? "

And I'm like, :bat:

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
 
When I came out to my car this morning, I noticed some water spots that were not there the night before. My guess is that one of my sprinkler heads is misaligned, or it was particularly windy when they went off, etc. I don't have time to wash the car until this weekend, so would it be a good idea to take off the water spots with Opti-clean when I get home tonight or can it wait until the weekend?

In general, how long does it take for hard water to cause etching?

The majority of any etching will take place while the water spots are still liquid. Depending upon what's in the water will be a factor as to whether more etching takes place after the surface is completely dry.

Cross your fingers there's no etching at all and what you see are just mineral deposits...



Water Spots

Tips for removing Type I Water Spots

3 - Types of Water Spots - Type I, Type II and Type III

How To Remove Sprinkler Water Spots

How to remove water spots by hand



:)
 
After using that if there is anything left mist some vinegar mix on there and let it sit 30 seconds before buffing it off.


I did some research on the common recommendation on discussion forums to use vinegar to try to wipe off mineral deposits, (topical), and included it in this article. Vinegar won't do anything for etchings as the paint will need to be leveled via some form of abrading process.


Tips for removing Type I Water Spots


Meguiar's and Duragloss both make water spot removers that may work for Type I Water Spots.

Note: While Duragloss recommends their product for automotive finishes, Meguiar's only recommends their product for Marine and RV surfaces, so take this into consideration when choosing and using a product outside the manufactures recommendations.

I have successfully used M47 on automotive paints to remove mineral deposits but that does not mean it will work for you on your car for the type of mineral deposits or water spots on your car's finish. Always do a Test Spot and make sure you're getting the results you want and hope for.



Type I Water Spots = Topical
These are Mineral Deposits or what people commonly call "Hard Water Spots". It's the minerals in water that people are referring to when they use the word "hard" in the term "Hard Water Spots.


Type I Water Spots are primarily a mineral or dirt deposit laying on the surface of paint. Type I Water Spots can be the results of minerals suspended in city water or well water that are left behind after the water evaporates off the finish. This can happen by washing a car but not drying the water off the paint or if a sprinkler goes off next to the car covering the car with water drop that are not dried off the paint.

Type I Water Spots can also be dirt or pollution particles left behind after water from rain or inclement weather evaporates of the finish. Type I Water Spots can also be Type II Water Spots in that the water can leave both a deposit on the surface and an etching in the finish.

How To Remove
Type I Water Spots can usually be removed by washing or wiping the pant clean using a normal car wash, rinseless wash, waterless wash or spray detailer. There are also specialty products just for this including,


Specialty Products for removing water spots,
  • Duragloss 505 Water Spot Remover
  • Meguiar's M47 Marine-RV Hard Water Spot Remover


WaterSpotRemovers.jpg



Duragloss 505 Water Spot Remover

The first sentence in the product description on the back of the Duragloss label reads,

Formulated to easily remove water spots caused by impurities, (CALCIUM), in water.

Duragloss states it can be used for automotive finishes and it won't remove durable polishes. My guess is they are using the word "polishes" generically to mean waxes, paint sealants or coatings, not abrasive products used to remove swirls and scratches. Duragloss calls all their paint sealants polishes. See the chapter on polishes for more information.


Meguiar's M47 Marine-RV Hard Water Spot Remover
The first sentence in the product description on the back of the Meguiar's label reads,

Specifically formulated to chemically break down and remove hard water Minerals off the surface.

When I worked for Meguiar's the common question about this product is can it be used on automotive paints and the company answer at that time was all the field testing was done on Marine surfaces in Marine environments.

My experienced guess is that it won't in and of itself harm a clear coat surface.

Two comments...

The average person doesn't know the difference between a topical mineral deposit, (Type I Water Spot), or a sub-surface etching, (Type II Water Spot), and the average Joe Consumer buying this product to use on a modern clear coat to try to remove Type II Water Spots would be let down as they don't understand you would have to abrade the paint with a compound to remove Type II, thus they designate a product like this to the Marine market. Just my guess.


Vinegar
A common recommendation for removing water spots is to wipe the paint with vinegar, they kind you find in a kitchen pantry. If the water spots are in fact mineral deposits sitting on the top of the paint then this may work but you won't know until you try.

How Vinegar Works - (If and when it works)
Common cooking vinegar or food grade vinegar is a weak form of acetic acid, which is has low pH. Mineral deposits are just that, minerals that are either dissolved in water or embodied in water and when the water evaporates it leaves the physical mineral behind on the surface.

There are different types of minerals in water but one of the most common is Calcium Hydroxide. Calcium Hydroxide has a high pH, if the mineral deposits on your car's paint are Calcium Hydroxide, then the low pH Acetic Acid in the Vinegar will act to neutralize the high pH of the Calcium Hydroxide and either dissolve the minerals or break their bond to the paint and at that point you would be able to wipe them off the surface.

If the hard water spots are some other type of mineral deposits, then there's a good chance the acetic acid in the vinegar will have no effect and in a worse case scenario cause more harm than good. This is why in the forum world you'll often read accounts from some people where they share how great vinegar worked for them in their situation but then you'll read accounts by other people where the vinegar had no effect.

The problem with using Vinegar is that the acetic acid will act to remove any wax or paint sealant previously applied to the paint, wiping a waxed finish with vinegar certainly won't add more protection and what's the opposite of adding?

The other problem with using vinegar is that in and of itself it doesn't provide any extra lubricating ability outside of being a liquid. So using it with some type of cloth, for example a microfiber towel will not be as gentle as using a product formulated by a chemist specifically to be wiped over polished finish. And if fact if there are physical minerals on the surface then wiping them off without some type of added lubricity could in fact lead to scratching of the finish.

The two products show above, Duragloss 505 and Meguiar's M47 are manufactured by reputable companies and I'm confident the chemists have taken into account everything involved with creating a product for Joe Consumer to potentially wipe a clear coated finish to remove mineral deposits.

Remember clear coat paints are scratch-sensitive, that is they scratch easily. I think it's safe to assume that any product created by a reputable company for wiping off mineral deposits will include both lubricating agents plus glossing agents along with their proprietary ingredients for forcing the minerals to release their bond to the surface.

Key Benefits
The lubricating agents help prevent potential scratching from the minerals on the surface and the glossing agents restore a just detailed look to the finish.

These two included features to the products are important to car owners even thought most car owners probably don't even know they want and need these benefits from the product.

Vinegar offers neither of these benefits.


My recommendation
If you find you have what I call Type I Water Spots, that is what the world generically refers to as Hard Water Spots or Mineral Deposits, then obtain one of the two products listed in this article, especially if the spotting is an ongoing problem and give them a try. Other safe options would be to try a spray detailer, (at least it offers lubricating and glossing features), or try washing the car using a high lubricity car wash.

If you do opt to try vinegar, test first to a small area. Dampen a clean, soft microfiber towel with vinegar, place it on the affected area and allow it to remain for a few seconds so it can soften and hopefully dissolve the mineral deposits, then gently wipe the surface. This would be a safer approach then wiping dry paint with dry mineral deposits bonded to the surface.



Important
If you use vinegar to remove water spots, plan on re-applying some type of wax or paint sealant afterwards to restore any protection removed from the acetic acid.



:)
 
I was able to take out most of the spots with Opti-clean last night, but missed a few since it was getting dark. From the water spot pattern, it looks like a neighbor may have accidentally sprayed the car for an instant.

It amazes me that tap water can cause this kind of damage, yet we're supposed to be able to drink this stuff. :confused:
 
Don't feel sorry for your stomach, it produces hydrochloric acid and enzymes that will severely damage your paint, and even body panel steel( ever see what emesis, or more comonly known as vomit will do to a car finish?). Besides, the stomach lining is constantly being replaced by new cells. Now if we could only find a LSP that would do the same.....
 
... Besides, the stomach lining is constantly being replaced by new cells. Now if we could only find a LSP that would do the same.....

Now there's an idea!!! :laughing:
 
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