Hazy and dull

What did you do in the first place?

A little more background as to what you did to the truck?
 
What did you do in the first place?

A little more background as to what you did to the truck?

I was hoping you wouldn't ask...

The top of the doors were beginning to fade, so I decided to give it a shot.

1) Sanded old paint;
2) Primed with Duplicolor scratch filler primer (4 light coats)
3) Painted with Duplicolor Pewter Metallic (5 light coats)
4) Clear coat Duplicolor (4 light coats)
5) Next day, wet sanding with 1000, then 2000 grit paper (I did not do an hours-long soak of the paper beforehand)
6) Hand compounding with cloth, buff with orbital (this doesn't seem to bite into the finish enough)

I wasn't expecting a showroom finish, but I wasn't expected this result either.

- amateur4sure
 
Did you use a clear coat over the color coat?

In a two stage system, the color coat will be rough and "flat" meaning no shine. It shouldn't have shine, nor should you attempt to make it shine. Any buffing or polishing of the base coat will change the visual appearance to look much like what you've posted.

Adding the clear coat is what brings out the shine, that's the layer you polish.
 
You need to refine the 2000 grit with 3000 grit. Assuming you didn't go through the clear coat you laid down the haze or dull in the sanding mark that remain.

You will need a machine to properly remove the saying marks. Can it be done by hand yes but its not for the faint of heart.
 
Ahh, I see you added the clear.

Before you put primer on, did you sand it to bare metal? Self etching primer is meant to bite into a metal surface and bond. If there was any old paint or primer under it, it will eventually wrinkle and look like crap. I learned this the hard way.

Take it to bare metal. Then spray your primer. Then sand your primer smooth and flat. Whatever the surface of your primer looks like, that's what your painted surfaces will look like. If you have drips, runs, rough texture, your resulting paint finish will too. If you hit metal sanding, respray and re-sand. Don't skimp on this step.

Spray the color coat very lightly, so light that you know it will need two or three more coats. Let that coat set (read can, it'll give you the window for applying the next coat), and then do a very light second coat, then a very light third coat, etc. Just until you have everything evenly covered with color. You do not want heavy runs or orange peel in this stage, so only add enough color paint to color the panel evenly and no more.

After it's set, apply the clear coat. You'll want it to go on uniform and wet. Too close to the panel and you get runs, too far and you get orange peel. Practice on cardboard pizza boxes until you find the right distance and arm speed, even if you have to go through three cans to get it down. Trust me, it's going to pay for itself in time saved sanding out the orange peel. Three coats of clear in this manner should be sufficient, but can add more if you wish, just don't rush it and get lazy with your technique.

Let the paint be for a couple days, then inspect your work. Sanding should really be done by machine (the 3M trizact discs are awesome for this, and you'll need a machine for polishing anyway look at a Porter Cable 7424xp), but if you're determined to do it by hand, you at least need a sanding block. Do the most coarse grit in one direction, and remove whatever defects you need to. Then the next finest grit against the grain of the coarse sanding only trying to remove the coarse grit marks, not correcting flaws. Then the next finest against that grain and so on, that'll get you the fastest abrasion of the high points.

The whole panel may not need the most aggressive grit, try finer grits on the parts that don't have orange peel or runs, etc. The finer you go on sand paper, the less aggressive you need to be compounding. Then compound with a machine and a wool or foamed wool pad, (or even a heavy cutting foam pad if you sanded all the way to like 5000 grit) followed by a finishing polish with a foam pad.

If this seems like a daunting task, it is. That's why shops can charge so much for it. The first time you do this, you might have have to start over two or three times to get an acceptable result, and spend a lot more than you want re-sanding and spraying. But, you'll own the tools, and more importantly, the knowledge to do it again, and each time it'll cost you much less and the end result well get better and better. Just remember, the reason you painted it was because it looked bad and you have some pride in your ride. You'll get the result you want eventually, just stay after it.

Oh yeah, last piece of advice, use a quality machine compound, things that say rubbing compound are very difficult to get quality results with.
 
Thanks for the input...I appreciate it.

...You will need a machine to properly remove the saying marks. Can it be done by hand yes but its not for the faint of heart...

Yes, I agree. I'm struggling with what kind of machine to get - $50-$75 DA or 90$-$125 rotary buffer...are these decent products that will bite into the finish, unlike the orbital I have?

- amateur4sure
 
Ahh, I see you added the clear.

Before you put primer on, did you sand it to bare metal? Self etching primer is meant to bite into a metal surface and bond. If there was any old paint or primer under it, it will eventually wrinkle and look like crap. I learned this the hard way.

Take it to bare metal. Then spray your primer. Then sand your primer smooth and flat. Whatever the surface of your primer looks like, that's what your painted surfaces will look like. If you have drips, runs, rough texture, your resulting paint finish will too. If you hit metal sanding, respray and re-sand. Don't skimp on this step.

Spray the color coat very lightly, so light that you know it will need two or three more coats. Let that coat set (read can, it'll give you the window for applying the next coat), and then do a very light second coat, then a very light third coat, etc. Just until you have everything evenly covered with color. You do not want heavy runs or orange peel in this stage, so only add enough color paint to color the panel evenly and no more.

After it's set, apply the clear coat. You'll want it to go on uniform and wet. Too close to the panel and you get runs, too far and you get orange peel. Practice on cardboard pizza boxes until you find the right distance and arm speed, even if you have to go through three cans to get it down. Trust me, it's going to pay for itself in time saved sanding out the orange peel. Three coats of clear in this manner should be sufficient, but can add more if you wish, just don't rush it and get lazy with your technique.

Let the paint be for a couple days, then inspect your work. Sanding should really be done by machine (the 3M trizact discs are awesome for this, and you'll need a machine for polishing anyway look at a Porter Cable 7424xp), but if you're determined to do it by hand, you at least need a sanding block. Do the most coarse grit in one direction, and remove whatever defects you need to. Then the next finest grit against the grain of the coarse sanding only trying to remove the coarse grit marks, not correcting flaws. Then the next finest against that grain and so on, that'll get you the fastest abrasion of the high points.

The whole panel may not need the most aggressive grit, try finer grits on the parts that don't have orange peel or runs, etc. The finer you go on sand paper, the less aggressive you need to be compounding. Then compound with a machine and a wool or foamed wool pad, (or even a heavy cutting foam pad if you sanded all the way to like 5000 grit) followed by a finishing polish with a foam pad.

If this seems like a daunting task, it is. That's why shops can charge so much for it. The first time you do this, you might have have to start over two or three times to get an acceptable result, and spend a lot more than you want re-sanding and spraying. But, you'll own the tools, and more importantly, the knowledge to do it again, and each time it'll cost you much less and the end result well get better and better. Just remember, the reason you painted it was because it looked bad and you have some pride in your ride. You'll get the result you want eventually, just stay after it.

Oh yeah, last piece of advice, use a quality machine compound, things that say rubbing compound are very difficult to get quality results with.

Very nice post!! :urtheman:

To the OP

I'd try refining your wet sanding to have a smoother surface on which to work on. Work it down to 3000 grit until all is smooth and dull looking. If you're still seeing pits or pockets of shiny clear coat then you haven't quite removed all the orange peel.

Afterwards, work your compound in very small sections at a time by hand to remove the dullness. Overlap your work sections so you have a nice smooth, clear transition from one compounding work section to the next. Repeat this until you get the whole panel compounded free of sanding marks.

The Duplicolor clear shouldn't really be that hard to work with. Worst case scenario, you'll have to redo it.

What compound were you using?
 
To the OP

I'd try refining your wet sanding to have a smoother surface on which to work on. Work it down to 3000 grit until all is smooth and dull looking. If you're still seeing pits or pockets of shiny clear coat then you haven't quite removed all the orange peel...

Well, that's the thing, it doesn't look like orange peel - hazy and dull, like someone took dry sandpaper to a nice, shiny paint job.

...What compound were you using?

Turtle Wax in a squeeze bottle.

- amateur4sure
 
1000 grit is a pretty stout grit for 4 thin coats of rattle can clear. Could it be that you sanded back through the clear into the base coat? It looks like that could be the issue. I couldn't tell by the gallery uploaded photo so I saved a copy and enlarged it in windows photo viewer.

What color was the compound coming out of the tube?

Do you have any white compound or polish? If so, take some and put it on a white terry towel and rub back over the area and tell us if the towel turns the color of the base coat. This should tell the story.
 
I do a lot of these types of repairs and I don't skimp on the clear or the base coat. I apply coats just heavy enough that they don't sag or run...Well I try to anyways. I'd rather sand off a run or a sag in the clear than to not have enough material to work with. I've sanded off lots of runs working with rattle cans.

When you get the hang of laying down heavy coats of clear without runs, you have very little wet sanding buffing to do.

Check out this thread to see one on my very few documented rattle can repairs.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/show-n-shine/49611-did-little-bumper-repair-my-new-shop.html
 
I do a lot of these types of repairs and I don't skimp on the clear or the base coat. I apply coats just heavy enough that they don't sag or run...Well I try to anyways. I'd rather sand off a run or a sag in the clear than to not have enough material to work with. I've sanded off lots of runs working with rattle cans.

When you get the hang of laying down heavy coats of clear without runs, you have very little wet sanding buffing to do.

Check out this thread to see one on my very few documented rattle can repairs.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/show-n-shine/49611-did-little-bumper-repair-my-new-shop.html

Impressive thread...I'm gonna give this another shot. Thanks for the help.

- amateur4sure
 
You're welcome. I'd be trying to use at least one can of base coat then follow that with at least 2 cans of clear. Lay down as many nice even coats as you can get out of them. Wouldn't even hurt to go with 3 cans of clear because you'll be sanding a good bit back off to get a nice factory like finish.

Just curious, how many cans of each did you use on your first attempt?
 
Maybe 1 1/2 each of base and clear coat. Sounds like I need to at least double that.

- amateur4sure

Yeah, it sounds and looks like you got what the guy in the video I linked refers to as dry coats of clear on your first attempt.

I think at this point, the important thing will be to make sure you get the surface sanded absolutely smooth and even before re-priming and starting your new coats of base color.

I suggest working on getting a nice even and overlapping spray pattern down pat before moving from primer to base coat. Practice, practice, practice with your primer first. Try getting one straight spray of primer from one end of your work to the other, then overlap your next spray into the previous spray as to create a nice even look.

You mentioned applying very light coats on your first attempt. While spraying your primer, practice making your coats just a little heavier. It will be easier to sand a few runs out on the primer coats than on the base coat or the clear coat.
 
My opinion is that you need a da or a rotory instead of an orbital or doing it by hand. You should be able to get 2000 grit marks out with any decent compound and a machine actually designed for this task (not an orbital).
my 2 cents...
 
My opinion is that you need a da or a rotory instead of an orbital or doing it by hand. You should be able to get 2000 grit marks out with any decent compound and a machine actually designed for this task (not an orbital).
my 2 cents...

:iagree:

He'd definitely have more control over the amount of clear he'd be removing, have more uniform sanding marks and it'd be a lot less work with better end results.
 
Yep, I'm definitely going to purchase either a DA or rotary. Thanks again for the advice.

- amateur4sure
 
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