Heavily oxidized paint or worse?? How to polish...

[mcdavis]

Please view the attached photos.

This is a Mercedes ML320 from 1999. When it was new, we used to Zaino it...

We haven't done anything with the SUV in perhaps 6-7 years. What a mess.

How would you approach this one?

Clay before polish, polish before clay?
Is the paint just oxidized or worse?
What kind of powered buffer and polish would you recommend?
What specific clay bar?
Specific wax? Is Zaino still really good or is there something better these days?

We also have some heavy scratching on parts of the car near the driver side key...from keys...what a mess.

Thanks, Regards, -mark

 

[RoyalBlUE08]

im no professional at all, im new to machine stuff, but it looks like it might need sanding. wash, clay, sand, compound, polish, sealant are the usual steps to correcting paint

 

[Setec Astronomy]

That paint looks failed, but you might be able to bring it back. If you can get some shine on it...this might be great application for Opti-Coat 2.0 to save you from a repaint.

I gather you don't have a machine since this is your first post. You're going to get a lot of different opinions, and there is no "best" approach. You'll want to do a thorough wash, then clay, then move on to polishing.

I think if it was me starting out from scratch, I'd go for the Meguiar's G110 and the Microfiber DA polishing system, although there are plenty of options.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

im no professional at all, im new to machine stuff, but it looks like it might need sanding. wash, clay, sand, compound, polish, sealant are the usual steps to correcting paint

There is NO way I would sand that until it's established what the condition of the finish is, not to mention a whole lot of other reasons. It is completely incorrect to state that sanding is a "usual" step.

 

[RTexasF]

im no professional at all, im new to machine stuff, but it looks like it might need sanding. wash, clay, sand, compound, polish, sealant are the usual steps to correcting paint

FAR from correct. You admit you're not a professional and new to "machine stuff" yet offer advice? Very poor advice at that so please refrain from offering it until you've some idea of what you're talking about.
____________________________________________________________
mcdavis -

You can buy all the compound, polish, and buffers you wish but you may find it a lost cause. Even if it can be saved this is a major project for someone seasoned much less the first time out with a brand new buffer. Why not find a professional in your area and get their opinion if the paint can be saved or not? They could do a trial section to evaluate after reading the thickness of the paint. Go from there.....

 

[rwright]

There is NO way I would sand that until it's established what the condition of the finish is, not to mention a whole lot of other reasons. It is completely incorrect to state that sanding is a "usual" step.

:iagree:Sanding is not a "usual" step for me either.

OP, in all honesty that simply looks like swirled up clear coat and could be compounded and polished. This is just my opinion based on 2 low resolution pictures. Making an assessment in person could prove to be something totally different such as failed clear coat.

This looks a little similar to what you posted and I was able to compound/polish to restore the luster:

 

[Nozama]

"You can buy all the compound, polish, and buffers you wish but you may find it a lost cause. Even if it can be saved this is a major project for someone seasoned much less the first time out with a brand new buffer. Why not find a professional in your area and get their opinion if the paint can be saved or not? They could do a trial section to evaluate after reading the thickness of the paint. Go from there....."

That's really the best advice :iagree:

 

[Setec Astronomy]

You can buy all the compound, polish, and buffers you wish but you may find it a lost cause. Even if it can be saved this is a major project for someone seasoned much less the first time out with a brand new buffer. Why not find a professional in your area and get their opinion if the paint can be saved or not? They could do a trial section to evaluate after reading the thickness of the paint. Go from there.....

That's certainly good advice. Another way to go is to Wal-Mart, Target, Pep Boys, etc. and get a bottle of Meg's Ultimate Compound, a microfiber applicator, and some halfway decent towels for wipe off, and vigorously do a small test spot by hand and see if it improves...that's $12-14 and a small amount of time.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

im new to machine stuff,

A couple guys chimed in on your post... I just wanted to point at that we were all new at one time including myself and all the seasoned pros I know so please continue to read the forum and chime in when you want...

There's a lot to learn today... and there will be more to learn tomorrow, I don't then any of us will ever be done learning or ever know it all...


:xyxthumbs:

 

[mcdavis]

WOWZA, lots of great posts...Thank you!

I can post ultra-high res pictures if necessary (those are iPhone4, I can do Canon 5DMkII if needed).

Any recommendations for pros in Portland, Oregon for an assessment?

We are going to sell the car...(likely a Cayenne S or 300HP X3 will replace). I thought I might as well learn to do this the right way to do the new car and also my existing MINI...and perhaps a 991 911 that may come after that .

Re: buffers...I really like Festool stuff and wanted to go with the Shinex..yet the PC 7424 seems "safe" (dual action). I really just want whatever product is best and more efficient; I really don't car what the stuff costs.

If you were to wash, then clay bar and compound this car, given the condition and shape, what products would you recommend?

Thanks again, Mark

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Please view the attached photos.

This is a Mercedes ML320 from 1999. When it was new, we used to Zaino it...

We haven't done anything with the SUV in perhaps 6-7 years. What a mess.

How would you approach this one?

Clay before polish, polish before clay?
Is the paint just oxidized or worse?
What kind of powered buffer and polish would you recommend?
What specific clay bar?
Specific wax? Is Zaino still really good or is there something better these days?

We also have some heavy scratching on parts of the car near the driver side key...from keys...what a mess.

Thanks, Regards, -mark

Hi Mark,

The paint on the MB looks not only horrible and neglected but somehow abused...

The scratches in the paint look as though the car has been routinely washed with a push-broom or run through some sort of brush tunnel car wash.

The scratches are horrendous and it looks like it's in the beginning stages of clearcoat failure.

Another way to go is to Wal-Mart, Target, Pep Boys, etc. and get a bottle of Meg's Ultimate Compound, a microfiber applicator, and some halfway decent towels for wipe off, and vigorously do a small test spot by hand and see if it improves...that's $12-14 and a small amount of time.

Mike is right. For less than $20.00 you can find out real fast if the paint can be saved or not. If it can be saved then whatever is taking place to the car to get the paint in the horrendous condition it's in will need to change or it will just revert back to how it looks now.

Zaino sealants are for the most part for use on paint in "Excellent Condition" as defined here,


What condition is the paint on your vehicles?

Excellent Condition
The paint in this category looks factory new or better than factory new.

The paint looks like it has been professionally machine polished and sealed with a wax, paint sealant or coating and is regularly maintained.

When viewed in bright sunlight, the paint looks excellent, that is there are few or no visible swirls or scratches or so few that there's not enough of them to require machine polishing.

The paint has few or no swirls, scratches or any other visible paint defects outside of RIDS.




If the paint looked like it does in the pictures above and Zaino was applied it would be hard to believe it did much to improve the appearance. The above is one step away from the point of no return.


Do the Test Spot with something like the Meguiar's Ultimate Compound, it's aggressive enough to tackle paint in the condition you show in your pictures but safe enough that as long as you're careful there won't be any risk.

Read through this,

How to use a hand applied abrasive polish or paint cleaner by hand

 

[CakeDaddy]

Please view the attached photos.

This is a Mercedes ML320 from 1999. When it was new, we used to Zaino it...

We haven't done anything with the SUV in perhaps 6-7 years. What a mess.

How would you approach this one?

Clay before polish, polish before clay?
Is the paint just oxidized or worse?
What kind of powered buffer and polish would you recommend?
What specific clay bar?
Specific wax? Is Zaino still really good or is there something better these days?

We also have some heavy scratching on parts of the car near the driver side key...from keys...what a mess.

Thanks, Regards, -mark

Looks familiar. I did work on a black trunk lid that I brought back to life a couple of years ago. Now, the 1999 benz paint is without the ceramiclear, so that is somewhat of a plus. I was sucessful with a good compound and a good 2 stage polish. 3m06060, 3m06064 and 3m06068. I wish I had the before and after pic to show off.

edit: I looked closer at the pics and your clearcoat looks to be missing in some areas.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

I can post ultra-high res pictures if necessary (those are iPhone4, I can do Canon 5DMkII if needed).

Please only post the ultra-high res pictures after you resize them, don't make your readers horizontal scroll.

I uploaded your pictures into your gallery as it's so much nicer to actually look at a picture versus click away to view a thumbnail expanded...


As for the ultra high res pictures, if you can get one like the #1 photo, that's the second one in the order they are posted when I inserted them, then I would like to have one to go with the definition Severely Neglected.


What condition is the paint on your vehicles?

Severely Neglected
Paint in this condition has deep swirls, scratches, water spots and oxidation. Paint in this condition has normal day-in, day-out wear-n-tear plus no real regular maintenance. Vehicles in this category are rarely washed on a regular basis and when they are washed they are washed improperly or taken through automatic car wash.

Cobweb Swirls and Scratches
Paint that is severely neglected means that when viewed in bright, overhead sunlight, there are so many swirls and scratches that the paint has an overall hazy appearance which blocks your view of the true color.


Water Spots
Paint that is in the severely neglected category can have Type I, Type II and Type III water spots on all horizontal panels and even the vertical panels if caused by a sprinkler or some type of water spray.


Severe Oxidation
Paint in this category has oxidized to the point where the surface has a uniform dull appearance to the horizontal surfaces and to some extent the vertical panels. Clear coats do oxidize but usually slower than single stage paints and don't normally get the whitish, chalky appearance with a rough texture common to old, neglected single stage lacquers and enamels.
​

No harm intended but a good picture of your car's hood would fit the above description.


:xyxthumbs:

 

[mcdavis]

New hi-resolution photo attached.

Thanks!!

-mark

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Any recommendations for pros in Portland, Oregon for an assessment?

tdekany is your man. Google him. If you are pleasant, he will probably let you hang around and ask questions and get some pointers while he is trying to save your paint.

 

[mcdavis]

Oddly, the paint on this vehicle was never really neglected...We used to wash & wax often when first purchased (touchless wash)...We stopped waxing and perhaps only washed once every 3-4 months after that...Acid rain in PDX?

 

[tuscarora dave]

This really looks like clear coat failure to me. I have seen a lot of Mercedes Benzes with this exact looking condition and all of them that I have worked on that looked like that had clear coat failure in where the clear actually has millions of cracks in it that look like deep scratches.

I am not sure how this happens but while I have seen it on other brands of vehicles it seems to me that I mainly see it on Mercedes Benzes close to that year.

The cracks in the clear (that appear to be deep scratching) go clean through the clear and there is typically a cloudy look to the paint underneath the clear.

I have had some success in making a visual improvement by using a wax with lots of fillers in it such as Meguiar's Gold Class paste wax but the condition begins to reappear in a short period of time, like a few weeks.

My bet is going on clear coat failure and the need for a repaint.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

This really looks like clear coat failure to me. I have seen a lot of Mercedes Benzes with this exact looking condition and all of them that I have worked on that looked like that had clear coat failure in where the clear actually has millions of cracks in it that look like deep scratches.

I agree.

I've seen this before too and it's hard to figure out a way explain with a keyboard what you see with your eyes but for lack of better terminology the paint looks like it has zillions of scratches in the paint but they're not scratches, they're more akin to cracks. Not sure if cracks is the right word but they're long looking lines in the paint that are not topical.

Perhaps it's mass interstices?



If I had to bet money, after seeing a few more pictures I would bet this paint job is past the point of no return and in some stage of clearcoat failure, past the beginning stage but it hasn't started to flake off and look like a skin rash.

I'm also a big believer in trying... that is

"You don't know what you can do until you try"


So try to save it with the the UC approach. I would place a tape-line on the hood and just work on one half of it so you can easily gage your progress, (if any), and results.

Apply the product using firm pressure and a fast hand movement, basically you want rub a section of paint out pretty hard as you need to take you hand and push on the applicator pad and force the abrasives into the paint so they'll take little bites out of it and thus level the surface.

After one or two applications, move the car into the sun and look at both sides of the paint (from your tape-line), and what you want to see is something like the below,

We've moved in such a way to place the sun on the after side, this is the multi-step section. You can see there's a HUGE difference. There are dramatically less swirls and the clear coat is now clear again so you can see the metallic flake under it.

My guess is you'll remove some surface defects but you won't be able to restore total clarity to the clear layer of paint.


Please keep us posted...


:xyxthumbs:

 

[rwright]

After reviewing the larger pictures Mike posted and the new pictures by the OP, I agree with the others that it looks like clear coat failure. I honestly thought it looked like a cloud reflection at first . I'm with Mike, please keep us posted :hungry:.

 

[mcdavis]

Thanks for all the great feedback! Will keep you posted...