Help with polishing extremly neglected cars

[ViGi]

I hope Mike and others will understand my answer and help me with it.

Today I worked on 1996 Mercedes Benz E class, it was single stage paint and extremly neglected. Swirls, Scraches, Rids all of them.

Because I have to work with this kind of cars, I decided and still use Rotary, but even with Rotary it is very hard to get not 95% which is imposible but even 80% correction.

Today I finally broked Menzerna FG400 (worked the polish enought) and the result were better then other times, but man my arm and even my ear still hurts, and I did not finished the car.

Beside working the polish enought to break down, I needed to apply more polish, much more pressure (my arm is dead, I think is not acceptable to do this kind of work must have other solution) and more polish means more passes to break down the polish, only in this way result were maybe 65% - 75% correction, another thing was that I realized that in this way I needed to change the pad after just a door, if not correction was not good enought, this means 5/6 pads for a car, dead arm, ear hurts, and not enought power, in the end of the day my power was low = correction was low, I worked with 5.5 inch hard foam pad from Menzerna.

I think the solution would be in machine sanding with something like 3000 grit paper and than 2 easy polishing steps, I don`t have experience with machine sanding but I belive this would be more easier and more profitabile, better results.

If this is solution than I need some advice on what machine for sanding and what grit papers, I have a plan to buy Rupes Duetto for one step corrections, and option for spot sanding, but I dont know if that would be good choice for full car sanding.

Thanks.

 

[ViGi]

Helping with some photos, in which category falls this condition I don`t know, I said Extremly Neglected.

50/50

Finish, Looks 100% corrected but it`s not, maybe 70-75%.

 

[Lowejackson]

The final picture shows a huge improvement and looks great.

I do wonder if applying some Megs #7 a day before polishing would help. I have no used the FG400 so cannot really offer any advice with this product

 

[RPM_BR]

I worked a similar Mercedes, though it was lot better than yours. I would consider cutting it with FG400 and wool or microfiber (I really like mf pads) before attempting sanding it with 3000.
I used LC rotary mf pads, a PE14 and FG400, but please watch out for corners, since you can easily damage the paint. Or LC Wool, though I think wool swirls it up a bit. Master Mike taught us about the LC 5.5 Electrified wool, which I bought it but I haven't had a chance to use it yet. Sometimes I cut it with mf finishing pads and FG400, it is a less agressive option.IMHO, you have to try all possibilities before sanding it. All the best!

 

[Matt@Revive]

i had a Mustang that was slightly worse than that and FG400 had a hard time cutting with any type of foam pad. i had to step up to Meguiars M100 to get out the deeper swirls. a wool pad will be your friend on this one.

i'd avoid sanding if possible. trying to get the sanding marks out of hard clear is difficult (i learned the hard way).

 

[RTexasF]

Just another thought here..........unless you are being paid fantastic money to make these cars just shy of perfection you may have to settle (as will the owners) for what is a reasonable correction for the price. It it highly unlikely that any owner that has left a car that neglected would recognize near perfection if it slapped them upside the head!

 

[dlc95]

That brings back bad memories of a Lexus suv from 2008... Nothing I tried would make a dent. The strongest combo I had tried was 3M Perfect It II Rubbing Compound, a wool cutting pad, and my rotary machine...

It's disheartening to do all that work, and see the water spots, and swirls laugh at you. I wish I would have had some 105, microfiber pads, and a pc - just to see what would happen.

 

[ViGi]

Thanks for replays, 3m fast cut is easier to bye in my country than M100, I believe 3m fast cut with some wool pad with have more cut than fg400. I also need most cutting pad known wool, foom, microfiber whatewer it be, with most cutting power for rotary.

I use Menzerna wool pad, and I'm able to order sonax wool pad, and 3m wool pad, and maybe something from shcool concepts, other than those I would need to order from other countries, that would cost more.

 

[cardaddy]

Please don't start sanding that to get better correction.

First, what machine and pad were you using?

On using 5, 6 or even 7 pads to do a vehicle... that's totally in line with what it'll take. Between pads overheating, and getting loaded up with abraded paint, spent product and the like you can use 2 pads just on the hood.

I'd agree with putting Meguiar's #7 on that single stage paint to hydrate it the night before. :xyxthumbs:

If you have access to Meguiar's microfiber correction pads, and D300 that'll be a great start towards most likely getting you 90% correction.

One thing that is CRITICAL with microfiber pads is that you clean them with compressed air after EACH section. Breaking up a hood into 6~8 sections is not uncommon. The up-side to using microfiber pads (and air to clean them) is you can do an entire vehicle with 3~4 of them. But they MUST be kept surgically clean!

You WILL have to go in afterwards with a foam pad and polish to correct what the microfiber pad left behind. (With black it'll probably leave micromarring.)

You might get that to do just fine with Meguiar's 205 with a white, blue or even black pad. Or another choice could be Meguiar's Ultimate Compound (a bit more cut than 205) or even D301 polish. Even though it's part of the "microfiber correction system" it'll work just fine with foam pads.rops:

Keeping in mind that SMAT based products you DO NOT want to work for 10 section passes. Go over each section 4~5 times then wipe clear and inspect your work. If you need more correction, apply 3 more beads to your pad and to 3~4 more section passes. (Remember, SMAT products do not need to break down, moreover they don't break down at all.)

Or you might (once the RIDS and swirls are corrected) be able to go after it with a DAT product from Menzerna (as with the diminishing abrasives they tend to finish down better). FG400 with a light cut pad can indeed finish down LSP ready. Step up to FF3000 for less cut and better gloss or FF4000 even less cut with outstanding gloss.

It's more about letting the pads and compounds do the work, and not so much arm pressure. Keep arm speed down, and make sure the head speed stays consistent. Don't run the head speed wide open, just make sure it's still rotating.

 

[dlc95]

Please don't start sanding that to get better correction.

First, what machine and pad were you using?

On using 5, 6 or even 7 pads to do a vehicle... that's totally in line with what it'll take. Between pads overheating, and getting loaded up with abraded paint, spent product and the like you can use 2 pads just on the hood.

I'd agree with putting Meguiar's #7 on that single stage paint to hydrate it the night before. :xyxthumbs:

If you have access to Meguiar's microfiber correction pads, and D300 that'll be a great start towards most likely getting you 90% correction.

One thing that is CRITICAL with microfiber pads is that you clean them with compressed air after EACH section. Breaking up a hood into 6~8 sections is not uncommon. The up-side to using microfiber pads (and air to clean them) is you can do an entire vehicle with 3~4 of them. But they MUST be kept surgically clean!

You WILL have to go in afterwards with a foam pad and polish to correct what the microfiber pad left behind. (With black it'll probably leave micromarring.)

You might get that to do just fine with Meguiar's 205 with a white, blue or even black pad. Or another choice could be Meguiar's Ultimate Compound (a bit more cut than 205) or even D301 polish. Even though it's part of the "microfiber correction system" it'll work just fine with foam pads.rops:

Keeping in mind that SMAT based products you DO NOT want to work for 10 section passes. Go over each section 4~5 times then wipe clear and inspect your work. If you need more correction, apply 3 more beads to your pad and to 3~4 more section passes. (Remember, SMAT products do not need to break down, moreover they don't break down at all.)

Or you might (once the RIDS and swirls are corrected) be able to go after it with a DAT product from Menzerna (as with the diminishing abrasives they tend to finish down better). FG400 with a light cut pad can indeed finish down LSP ready. Step up to FF3000 for less cut and better gloss or FF4000 even less cut with outstanding gloss.

It's more about letting the pads and compounds do the work, and not so much arm pressure. Keep arm speed down, and make sure the head speed stays consistent. Don't run the head speed wide open, just make sure it's still rotating.

:iagree:

But I think he's going at this exclusively by rotary. Not 100% on that though.

 

[ViGi]

I use rotary because I know is the best tool for neglected cars, don't know if I can use microfiber pads with rotary, I tried different technics and found that I must put pressure to get better result (worked with hard foam pad) that pad killed my arm, needet to work with wool pad.and than working longer to brake down fg 400, maybe smat polish will be better option because you don't have to brake down the polish, you will apply more polish and that will cut constantly, with dat those 3, 4 sections you are breaking the polish but polishing abrazives don't cut like first 2 sections.

When doing this kind of correction I don't need high gloos finish from compound I needd just cutting, anyway I will use polish for the second step.

What smat polish other than 3m fast cut some of you suggest.

 

[Detailing by M]

Wetsand, wool pad on rotary, compound/polish, LSP. Thats the order of paint correction.

You only polished right?
Try a wool pad, it's the aggressive way to kill rids fast, then compound/polish.
Try wool before you sand

 

[cardaddy]

:iagree:

But I think he's going at this exclusively by rotary. Not 100% on that though.

Ahhhhhh..... "I see" said the blind man. :dunno:

@the OP

SMAT, if you want cut, and lots of it, Meguiar's M101 will cut like CRAZY (which for a lot of us replaced M105 which cuts just as well, but tends to dry up fairly quickly). Also, M95 and M100 is your friend, especially with the rotary.

Check out this M105, M101, M100 Roundtable discussion at Autogeek

Here's a thread that is a great reference point as well. This one should be printed out and stuck to everyone's detailing cabinet. :dblthumb2:
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...anted-know-about-meguiar-s-smat-products.html

I am not familiar with the Marine lineup, so I cannot answer there, but I know some (if not all) of them are SMAT based. :dunno:

 

[RPM_BR]

Please don't start sanding that to get better correction.

First, what machine and pad were you using?

On using 5, 6 or even 7 pads to do a vehicle... that's totally in line with what it'll take. Between pads overheating, and getting loaded up with abraded paint, spent product and the like you can use 2 pads just on the hood.

I'd agree with putting Meguiar's #7 on that single stage paint to hydrate it the night before. :xyxthumbs:

If you have access to Meguiar's microfiber correction pads, and D300 that'll be a great start towards most likely getting you 90% correction.

One thing that is CRITICAL with microfiber pads is that you clean them with compressed air after EACH section. Breaking up a hood into 6~8 sections is not uncommon. The up-side to using microfiber pads (and air to clean them) is you can do an entire vehicle with 3~4 of them. But they MUST be kept surgically clean!

You WILL have to go in afterwards with a foam pad and polish to correct what the microfiber pad left behind. (With black it'll probably leave micromarring.)

You might get that to do just fine with Meguiar's 205 with a white, blue or even black pad. Or another choice could be Meguiar's Ultimate Compound (a bit more cut than 205) or even D301 polish. Even though it's part of the "microfiber correction system" it'll work just fine with foam pads.rops:

Keeping in mind that SMAT based products you DO NOT want to work for 10 section passes. Go over each section 4~5 times then wipe clear and inspect your work. If you need more correction, apply 3 more beads to your pad and to 3~4 more section passes. (Remember, SMAT products do not need to break down, moreover they don't break down at all.)

Or you might (once the RIDS and swirls are corrected) be able to go after it with a DAT product from Menzerna (as with the diminishing abrasives they tend to finish down better). FG400 with a light cut pad can indeed finish down LSP ready. Step up to FF3000 for less cut and better gloss or FF4000 even less cut with outstanding gloss.

It's more about letting the pads and compounds do the work, and not so much arm pressure. Keep arm speed down, and make sure the head speed stays consistent. Don't run the head speed wide open, just make sure it's still rotating.

Cardaddy Sir, you nailed. It is a very well written piece of advice. And indeed, compressed air is a must for cleaning mf. I also use almost exclusively compressed air to clean foam pads as well, it saves the pads, and you don't remove tiny bits of foam as frequent as you would with brush, especially on softer pads.:applause:

 

[cardaddy]

Cardaddy Sir, you nailed. It is a very well written piece of advice. And indeed, compressed air is a must for cleaning mf. I also use almost exclusively compressed air to clean foam pads as well, it saves the pads, and you don't remove tiny bits of foam as frequent as you would with brush, especially on softer pads.

Thank you very much as well sir. :dblthumb2:

Although I did some work with a local (high end) guy back in 2013 that both wanted the whole vehicle done with them (black Porsche) and had no clue you needed air to clean microfiber pads, (thinking you'd just brush them and keep going).

I totally agree with the statement about brushes ripping up foam pads.rops:
I have 2 different ones I use when "cleaning on the fly". Even so... anything softer than black and you're best to just toss it in pad cleaner and get another pad. For that matter the CCS green pads (while having cut) are terribly soft foam, and one must be ever diligent to keep from ripping them up. All of which is why I continually preach to use 6 (or more) pads doing a vehicle.

 

[ViGi]

Cardaddy thanks for the links I will check them.

P.S. Can't start polishing without compresed air.

 

[dlc95]

Thank you very much as well sir. :dblthumb2:

Although I did some work with a local (high end) guy back in 2013 that both wanted the whole vehicle done with them (black Porsche) and had no clue you needed air to clean microfiber pads, (thinking you'd just brush them and keep going).

I totally agree with the statement about brushes ripping up foam pads.rops:
I have 2 different ones I use when "cleaning on the fly". Even so... anything softer than black and you're best to just toss it in pad cleaner and get another pad. For that matter the CCS green pads (while having cut) are terribly soft foam, and one must be ever diligent to keep from ripping them up. All of which is why I continually preach to use 6 (or more) pads doing a vehicle.

Even more sage advice.

 

[allenk4]

Why are the Before pictures nice close-ups and the afters are taken at five feet?

 

[ViGi]

Because I asked for help. I croped before pictures to see better the condition in which the paint was, even the picture from after looks good, it's not even 80% corrected there are more deeper swirls, but they are not visible in picture even if I crop the after picture. My point was not in the after pictures, my point was on best way to cut neglected cars.