How low is too low - in polishing paint

MobolWerks

MobolWerks

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Mike,

I was curious about your thoughts on when you begin to get a little uncomfortable with polishing paint... In terms of paint thickness remaining.

Is it 3 mils??? maybe 2 mils??

I guess the better question is when should I start feeling uncomfortable :)

Thanks!
 
Anything around 3 mils or 80 microns is pretty low and you should be careful about polishing. First measure inside the door panel. This will give you the absolute lowest as the jams only get one shot of clear and measure paint and compare the numbers. If they are fairly close it would be better to use a glaze or if you must polish a very light finishing polish.
 
Thanks for the quick response. So in terms of dealing with a customer on this issue, what do you typically advise them to do??? Is it an automatic re-paint, or do you simple suggest a short-term solution like the glazing you mentioned??

With a glaze being simply a mask, it seems like in the long run in might end up being cheaper for the customer to just have the area touched up in a paint booth...

Thanks!
 
It's relative because the thickness for the top coat will be different on every car you work on. I've been told you can safely remove about .5 mills from a factory finish and if the paint is regularly maintained then it should still hold up, but most paint gauges only measure total film build so you would have to measure before you start and then measure as you progress and monitor how much material you're removing.

Instead, how about,

"Use the least aggressive product to get the job done"

Note I didn't use the word abrasive, I used the word aggressive.


Also, what you're working on is a huge factor, are you working on a show car or a daily driver? If it's a daily driver then don't aim to remove ever single defect as this means removing more paint off the car. Discuss what you're going to do with your customer and see what their expectations are and in needed, educate them a little about what it means to remove swirls and scratches and I find in most cases once you educate your customer in what it means to remove swirls and scratches if the car in fact is a daily driver they will completely understand why it's not a good idea to remove all the deeper defects.


:)
 
I think that pretty much answers my question. Do you know off hand a thread or website or something that tells you how thick a certain type of vehicle's paint should be from the factory???

I saw a thread on another forum, but the guy who posted it was banned:)
 
MobolWerks said:
Thanks for the quick response. So in terms of dealing with a customer on this issue, what do you typically advise them to do??? Is it an automatic re-paint, or do you simple suggest a short-term solution like the glazing you mentioned??

With a glaze being simply a mask, it seems like in the long run in might end up being cheaper for the customer to just have the area touched up in a paint booth...

Thanks!
Click to expand...

I would ask them what are their plans for this particular vehicle, long term/short term. I would do a small test spot with a light polish in an inconspicuous area, making sure the check the thickness before and after. A light polish wont really make a dent in removing much paint but will bring back some gloss. If it is satisfactory to them I would go through with it.

It all depends upon what the customer wants. If they want a full multistage polish I would highly recommend the repaint or at least to cover yourself for any future problems have them sign a release of liability.
 
I have an article from autodetailingnetwork.com that says that manufacturers say to remove no more than 25% of the clear. This article also states that most new cars have around 50 microns of clear on them. 25% of 50 microns is 12.5, which is around the .5 mil mark that Mike Phillips mentions above. If a moderator will tell me that I'm allowed to post the link I will.
 
You can easily get a rough estimate of the thickness of the clear coat by measuring the door jams first as your baseline(Door jams get the miminum amount of clear/1 coat) and then measure all the exterior panels and subtract the difference.
 
I have yet to polish my car but am thinking about making the jump. Do I need to get something to measure the thickness of the paint and if so what would be a good one? Also, how often is safe to polish? I'm not counting on having to do it often as I will be washing correctly to try to prevent swirls, but I need to remove the swirls already on the car.
 
mcpp66 said:
I have an article from autodetailingnetwork.com that says that manufacturers say to remove no more than 25% of the clear. This article also states that most new cars have around 50 microns of clear on them. 25% of 50 microns is 12.5, which is around the .5 mil mark that Mike Phillips mentions above. If a moderator will tell me that I'm allowed to post the link I will.
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Your quote of 50 mic. of clear on a new car is way off base. It's more like 120 and up.
 
benjamin3 said:
I have yet to polish my car but am thinking about making the jump. Do I need to get something to measure the thickness of the paint and if so what would be a good one? Also, how often is safe to polish? I'm not counting on having to do it often as I will be washing correctly to try to prevent swirls, but I need to remove the swirls already on the car.
Click to expand...

Since this is your first post...

Welcome to Autogeek Online! :welcome:


First... what are you working on?

Second, as long as you use good quality products and follow the sage advice of,

"Use the least aggressive product to get the job done"



Then you don't need a paint thickness gauge, it's a handy tool for some in the detailing industry but not a top priority just to detail your own car.


:)
 
Rsurfer said:
Your quote of 50 mic. of clear on a new car is way off base. It's more like 120 and up.
Click to expand...

That's not my quote, I'm quoting an article....if a moderator tells me I can post it I will.
 
Rsurfer said:
Did you not realize it was wrong?
Click to expand...

Well, according this link on the AG site, Circular/ Rotary Polishing Guide: remove swirls, scratches, & oxidation with a rotary polisher. foam pads, backing plate, lake country, professional,, it doesn't look as though it was wrong. According to this page most factory clear coats are 1.5 to 2 mils thick. Converting that to microns the numbers are 38.1 to 50.8 microns. Since the article I mentioned stated that you can remove 25% of the clear that would be 9.525 to 12.7 microns of clear. Earlier in this thread Mike said that he was told that you can take off approximately .5 mils of a factory finish, which converts to 12.7 microns. The first article I mentioned (which I have not posted yet, but will if I'm given the okay to do so), Mike's statement earlier in this thread, and the AG page above seem to be in line. Not trying to be argumentative as I'm certainly not an experienced detailer, but everything I'm reading seems to indicate that the number of 50 microns for the amount of clear may be accurate.
 
I am assuming that 1 mil is equal to 25.4 microns, I hope that conversion is correct.
 
mcpp66 said:
I am assuming that 1 mil is equal to 25.4 microns, I hope that conversion is correct.
Click to expand...
It is correct and I stand corrected. I was thinking 120 mic. of total paint not just the clear. So if 2 mils of clear is average than that would be around 50 mic. of clear. My bad.Im the MAN
 
Now I just wonder how many microns are typically removed when buffing with a DA, Meg's UC, and Lake Country orange and white pads.
 
mcpp66 said:
Now I just wonder how many microns are typically removed when buffing with a DA, Meg's UC, and Lake Country orange and white pads.
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From what I read in the article, heavy compounding only removes about 3 microns. Less agressive polishing removes only about 1-2 microns..

You would have to polish like a crazy person to get to 12.5:)
 
MobolWerks said:
From what I read in the article, heavy compounding only removes about 3 microns. Less agressive polishing removes only about 1-2 microns..

You would have to polish like a crazy person to get to 12.5:)
Click to expand...

I don't know what he means by heavy compounding though. I'm using a 7424XP with a white LC pad and Meg's UC, I'm guessing that doesn't fall in the category of heavy compounding but I really don't know. Maybe that can be considered heavy compounding on a car that has soft paint?
 
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