How often can a car be buffed before you run out of clear?

TMQ

TMQ

Active member
Mar 4, 2015
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This is just a big picture thinking on my part. I know there are many factors involving clear coats
on factory cars and cars that have "custom" work done = more clear than factory.

I know that clear is thin as a post it note.

I was just wondering what would be a general idea or approx. of how many times can one compound and polish a new car with factory clear?
5 times? Once a year x 5 = 5 years worth of compound/polish?

I did a search and do apologize if this question has been addressed.

This is just a compounding (cutting) and polishing question.

Tom
 
A very common and time tested question. I can only impart a combination of personal experience and knowledge gained online from the perspective of "professionals" with valued knowledge and experience.

I have a black 2007 BMW since brand spankin' new. I have done at least annual compounding and buff/polish sessions and still maintain outstanding gloss and sparkle. That's roughly calculated at 10-15/18 cut buff and polishes. The best way to tell would've been to baseline my paint film thickness when new and then document subsequent readings every time it was corrected. Without that I cannot document how much i've removed but know I still have fantastic clear gloss and pop.

I will add that this is my daily driver and i have gone from PC to rotary to Flex 3401 during its life. And from wool pads to super fine finishing foam to jewel. I will also add that i tend to the conservative side knowing I only have so much clear depth to work with and I plan on driving the wheels off of it. Or...burn through at some point and sell it. My annual corrections only go so far as to level and flatten the paint AND NO MORE. I pick up the usual very fine scratches and scarring from weekly washes on a black car and using AutoGeek standards of careful washing and drying. doing some quick math, that's roughly 338 washes!!!
 
Thanks Paul! Your reply really helps a lot!
Thanks
Tom
 
I wonder about this also, so I use the least abrasive possible. On my personal Benz, I use Menzerna 4000, CG Blacklight or paint cleaner. I also use a black pad, maybe white. I will be going to a coating.
 
Nobody can answer that, Every paint measurement is different, some have thinner paint some thicker. Showcars have multiple layers of clear to go through multiple cut and buffs if needed.

Also if you did not have the car since new you do not know who worked on it before you.

I use this example alot, I had a customer come in with a new model s550, a dealership installed tons of rotary swirls all over the car, this car looked horrible to say the least. The highest paint reading i got was about 3.2 low areas was about 2.1. He wanted perfection and was willing to pay for it. However I told him hes not even a candidate for a 2 stage aggressive polish.

The car was so bad, we both agreed that there was not much to lose but only to gain,If all failed he was going to paint it. I did the best i could, and we did multiple coats of a coating to try to help maintain the car after. The whole job I felt so uncomfortable, It was like skating on thin ice.

So you never know this was a new model mercedes with only about 15-20k miles on it. So you never know.

But to try to answer your question, Mazda has really thin OEM paint the highest reading you get is 3.5mils other paints can range from 6-13mils

there is really no way to answer, The best answer I can give you is compound it once and make sure you never got to do it again lol.
 
Thanks Joe.
I would've never known re the Mercedes! New car with 20K miles and you felt you were
on thin ice? This is good info right there.
All the more reason to carry insurance and have a paint thickness gauge!?!
Tom
 
TMQ said:
Thanks Joe.
I would've never known re the Mercedes! New car with 20K miles and you felt you were
on thin ice? This is good info right there.
All the more reason to carry insurance and have a paint thickness gauge!?!
Tom
Click to expand...
Without the gauge I would have for sure went through the clear without a doubt.

Just goes to show you. You never know who worked on it before you what they used how many times it was buffed.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Autogeekonline mobile app
 
Just to chime in...

From the factory the clear needs to be 2 mils in order for the entire paint job to hold up.

Any thinner than this and it will fail on it's own. I obtained this from Dr. and share this on page 2 of my article here,


Beginning Clearcoat Failure



How much clear is on a car when YOU get to it is anyone's guess and most Paint Thickness Gauges read TOTAL FILM BUILD that's why I use them as what I call

A BIG PICTURE INDICATOR

That is they help me to decide real simple

Go or No Go

In other words am I going to take the job or not take the job and if I take the job am I going to use a true compound or merely a polish or cleaner/wax. (There's all kinds of ways to skin a cat)


A bigger picture would be this, AFTER you do the initial compounding (or whatever it takes to get the paint how you want it to look, you might only need a polish to get there), AFTER THIS - Stop doing the things that put deep scratches back into the car so you don't have to compound it again.

Or

Tell your customer to STOP doing the things that put deeper scratches back into the paint so you don't have to compound it again.


Make sense?


In my classes I teach guys to start a new client with GETTING INSIDE THEIR HEAD. This mean, find out how they are going to wash and/or treat the car after you detail it. If they want your ultimate package where you remove all the swirls out of the BLACK CORVETTE but then they are going to run the Corvette through an automatic brush style car wash.

Then DON'T do the ultimate package for this customer.


Think things through....



:)
 
For my serious customers, I always ask them " how will you maintain the car?" I've had conversations with folks who pay dealerships $125 to $150 for a detail that includes no correction. I can do an AIO for that or slightly more depending on car size, etc. As Mike P says (and I'm a product of his detail camp), education and communication can set you apart from the pack and keep clients.
 
Below, IMO, are some excellent
buffing CC words-of-wisdom:

*********************************************
"...you don't need to go all the way through
the Clear-Coat in order to run into problems".

"Yes, burning through the clear is a problem
right now...but removing more than what is
recommended by the manufacturer is a
problem waiting to happen".

"(...practically all manufacturers recommend
against removing more than 0.5 mil of clear
before having to refinish the vehicle...)"

~Michael Stoops
Senior Global Product & Training Specialist |
Meguiar's Inc

************************************


Bob
 
Each car is indeed different.

I've burnt through clear on two panels. BOTH times I knew it would happen. First time, it was intentional, on a practice panel while I did some product testing.

Second time wasn't intentional, but I knew it was possible, as Joe said above, "thin ice" - because I had already did some damp sanding and multiple compound/polish steps on the hood of my daily driver. I did it anyway as the hood was actually a back-up hood that I've been using since the car was new, in 2008. Also, I was looking to get it repainted for another project I had in mind.

It's best to avoid putting any damage on the car, so you don't have to compound/polish once a year (or whatever many times you want to do)
 
Did some checking around trying to get a visual on just how thin a mil is.

I've made a major, major mistake assuming when I heard the word mil, I was thinking in mm (millimeters). WRONG! WRONG! I wasn't even close.
Couldn't understand why a dime and post it cards were not the same!

A mil is NOT a millimeter! Duh...

Just to give an idea if anybody cares...

1 mm (millimeter) is close to thickness of a dime.
40 mils is about 1 millimeter. About same thickness of a dime.
30 mils is approx. thickness of a credit card. (I did google search!)

2 mils is 0.0508 of mm!

Now, I do appreciate just how thin, thin the clear is now!
How in the world can anyone cut and polish something thinner than 2 mils?

Tom
 
The paint thickness gauge I bought came with several small calibration plastics. Different thicknesses. That's where I got my "visual" - I mean, on top of using post-it's regularly at my desk.

THIN THIN THINNNN
 
^ that's the key, JustJesus...minimizing damage to the paint while maintaining the finish and LSP reducing the need to cut harshly during it's life. I agree with the consensus so far i.e. every paint system is different and this question does not have a clearly defined answer or, for that matter, even a range of answers. The key is to adopt the least aggressive way to maintain the paint thereby reducing the need to cut. That was my point above but owning black paint on a DD...poop happens to even us Geeks who have high standards and I've cut and buffed to correct for almost 10 years now and I need to do it annually.

Even my "aggressive for my needs" cut does not remove much clearcoat paint. And my refinement "jewelling" removes even less. I would NEVER EVER minimize the importance of how careful you must be with post it note thickness of clear paint, but i don't think using AG quality abrasive technologies with the right machine, pad and technique should jeopardize the clear thickness over your lifetime of ownership. Again folks...I ONLY level down to the depth of the worst scratches and NO MORE.
 
TMQ said:
Did some checking around trying to get a visual on just how thin a mil is.

I've made a major, major mistake assuming when I heard the word mil, I was thinking in mm (millimeters). WRONG! WRONG! I wasn't even close.
Couldn't understand why a dime and post it cards were not the same!

A mil is NOT a millimeter! Duh...

Just to give an idea if anybody cares...

1 mm (millimeter) is close to thickness of a dime.
40 mils is about 1 millimeter. About same thickness of a dime.
30 mils is approx. thickness of a credit card. (I did google search!)

2 mils is 0.0508 of mm!

Now, I do appreciate just how thin, thin the clear is now!
How in the world can anyone cut and polish something thinner than 2 mils?

Tom
Click to expand...

Or for those of us more familiar with english measurements, one mil = .001".
 
and a harsh abrasive might remove .3 mils. You shouldn't need to use that more than once or twice in that clear's life provided good maintenance practices are being followed.
 
Well the going rate for a cut and polish just went through the roof!

I am beginning to understand or the concept of: "The more a customer pays, the less you take off the car."

Tom
 
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