How often can you polish? agressively

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ShawnF350

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I guess what I am not understanding is...
With a Griots DA, If I have a moderately swirled finish and use meguiars M105....or ultimate Compound, how many more times could you safely use such an aggressive polish before getting into dangerously thin clear coat. I hope I never need to use it again once I make the corrections.
Meguiars has it as a 10 on agressiveness, and Mikes chart is a nine.

Then lets say M205 or ultimate polish, could you use it twice a year?
I would like to use the DA for all applications now.

I usually have vehicles up to 15 years. Usually only use pure wax and cleaner wax by hand. Any blems I used 3m perfect it compound by hand.
 
It's a great question... problem is there are too many variables to answer it meaningfully.

Here is why: Paint thickness varies from car to car, even rolling off the same production line. The vehicle may have been repainted on one or more panels. Repainted sections will have different characteristics/thickness/hardness from the OEM paint.

Who has done work on the car in the past? Even if it hasn't ever been repainted it has probably been at least prepped at the dealer and that would normally involve polishing the paint. If you don't know the history of the paint you don't know how much clear you might have to work with.

Product, tools used, and technique are so variable it is impossible to give a definitive answer like "you can polish your car x amount of times using y product and z technique."

My best answers is to get a paint thickness gauge. This is the only way you can reliably know how much film build you have to work with. Sure you don't know exactly how much clear you have unless you get one of the super expensive ones but at least you will have a general idea.

Next best answer is once your paint is fully corrected, do your best to eliminate whatever is causing scratches in the first place. Quality wash media and soaps, grit-guards, 2 buckets, all the things that constitute a safe, professional wash will go a long ways in keeping your paint perfect and lessen the need to frequently polish.
 
I would love a paint thickness gauge but they are pretty expensive for an enthusiast. But that's the only real answer.
 
addysdaddy said:
I would love a paint thickness gauge but they are pretty expensive for an enthusiast. But that's the only real answer.
Click to expand...

I got mine for under $150, direct from China, from that popular auction site... it works great.

2012-12-16_19_07_33.jpg
 
Bigds2012TT said:
Does that measure cc or total paint thickness?
Click to expand...

Total paint thickness. And then I usually get some sample readings from the door jambs (which typically have much less clear) and that gives me a good idea of how much CC I have to play with. I have seen a couple cars where the paint was so thin there was nothing that could be done. I would have never known (other than striking through while polishing) if not for this tool.

Sent from my LG-VM701 using AG Online
 
If you have to aggressively polish more than once, it's time to carefully put down the polisher and start looking at the root cause of the problem. Treating the symptom without figuring out the cause doesn't work in medicine and it doesn't work here either.
 
Things happen that are out of our control but a car i believe should only be compounded with an agressive product/pad combo only 1 time. After that with proper care it should only take a polishing pad maybe even a light cutting pad and basically a finishing polish.
 
silverfox said:
If you have to aggressively polish more than once, it's time to carefully put down the polisher and start looking at the root cause of the problem.
Click to expand...



I agree.

If you're working on a new car, for example you purchased the car new. AND you have not let some hack compound it in the past, (let someone remove paint carelessly), then as long as you use common sense removing too much clear paint off your vehicle is the least of your worries.

Also, don't try to remove each and every scratch, learn to live with the deeper scratches if the vehicle in question is a "Daily Driver" because it's just going to get more scratches from normal wear-n-tear into the future.


:)
 
silverfox said:
If you have to aggressively polish more than once, it's time to carefully put down the polisher and start looking at the root cause of the problem. Treating the symptom without figuring out the cause doesn't work in medicine and it doesn't work here either.
Click to expand...
I agree. If you really care about your car, and the implication of wanting to detail it being that you do, You should only need to aggressively polish once. With proper washing, only a light polish should be needed every couple of years at the most. The best way to eliminate scratches is by prevention by proper paint cleaning techniques and proper car care, like not touching a dirty car, and never putting groceries or boxes on the car.
 
Thank y oufor the replies, like I said I take great care of my vehicles but they were always purchased new. I just want to remove these horrible swirls and brush marks. (Dark Ink Blue 2010 Ford Edge bought used in spring of 2012)
I bought the Griot's Polishes, but #3 removed a very small percentage but barely took a bite ouit of the problem.. I wasn't sure if i should just go with the Ultimate Compound or 105.
I did buy the Griot's 1&2 polishes as well but trying all of them may not be a great idea either.

I don't have a great technique yet using the DA either. Maybe I gotta apply a bit of pressure. I kind of let the weight of the tool polish with an Orange Griot's pad. And i did watch many videos and have Mike's detailing book. But hands on instruction would be best. Does Mike's training travel? I would love to attend a weekend class in NJ.
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
I agree.

If you're working on a new car, for example you purchased the car new. AND you have not let some hack compound it in the past, (let someone remove paint carelessly), then as long as you use common sense removing too much clear paint off your vehicle is the least of your worries.

Also, don't try to remove each and every scratch, learn to live with the deeper scratches if the vehicle in question is a "Daily Driver" because it's just going to get more scratches from normal wear-n-tear into the future.
:)
Click to expand...

Does this mean that if you bought a new car and your the only person to have detail it, that you don't feel a PTG is necessary?
 
ShawnF350 said:
Does Mike's training travel? I would love to attend a weekend class in NJ.
Click to expand...

In October I was in Evansville, Indiana and this was completely open to the public, one guy drove in over 5 hours from Chicago...

Pictures with Dennis Gage at the Evansville Detailing Class

And everyone had the chance to meet Dennis Gage while they were there...

Evansville001.jpg







Couple weeks ago I was in Lincoln, Nebraska... this was open to all our forum members...

Nebraska Get Together - Be part of the team!


And everyone had the chance to meet Bruno Massel while they were there...

AMX_Wetsanding_Daves_Camera052.jpg




Most people have no idea what it takes to teach a quality class at an offsite location, for example shipping all the tools, pads, products, microfibers, etc. there and back...


The above doesn't happen very often, when it does I always start at thread for it. I also maintain a number of e-mail lists and send e-mails out that relate to specific topics to my lists.

If you want to be on a notification list for car projects both here and offsite, shoot me an e-mail and put in the subject line,

Add me to your list



:)
 
addysdaddy said:
Does this mean that if you bought a new car and your the only person to have detail it, that you don't feel a PTG is necessary?
Click to expand...

kind of...

Somewhere in my post I mentioned common sense...


I've buffed out thousands of cars and never measured the paint thickness. It's called evaluating the customer first and then evaluating the car. These are the first two things I teach on day one of my Detailing Boot Camp Classes.



At some point you make the

Go or No Go decision


Once you start though you're committed to finishing. No where does this hit home stronger than when you start sanding on someone else's car...

Wetsanding a car from start to finish - Time Lapse Video



AMX_Wetsanding_Daves_Camera003.jpg






:xyxthumbs:
 
ShawnF350 said:
Thank you for the replies, like I said I take great care of my vehicles but they were always purchased new. I just want to remove these horrible swirls and brush marks. (Dark Ink Blue 2010 Ford Edge bought used in spring of 2012)
I bought the Griot's Polishes, but #3 removed a very small percentage but barely took a bite out of the problem.. I wasn't sure if i should just go with the Ultimate Compound or 105.
I did buy the Griot's 1&2 polishes as well but trying all of them may not be a great idea either.

I don't have a great technique yet using the DA either. Maybe I gotta apply a bit of pressure. I kind of let the weight of the tool polish with an Orange Griot's pad. And i did watch many videos and have Mike's detailing book. But hands on instruction would be best. Does Mike's training travel? I would love to attend a weekend class in NJ.
Click to expand...
You do need to apply some pressure when using a DA to get efficient results. The weight of the machine is not enough. Not so much pressure that it stops the pad from rotating, though. You need to apply some pressure when polishing by hand. The same goes for a DA. A rotary on the other hand cuts so fast that the weight of the machine is enough, particularly if it is a heavier one.
 
Blackthorn One said:
You do need to apply some pressure when using a DA to get efficient results. The weight of the machine is not enough. Not so much pressure that it stops the pad from rotating, though.
Click to expand...


I agree. Years ago there was a single video out on how to use the PC and in the video they stated to let the weight of the polisher do the work.

When I heard that the first thing I though was,

"You'll be there for years trying to buff out your car"


You need to push down on the polish AND keep the pad flat to the surface while pushing down. Keeping the pad flat helps it to rotate best and pushing down...


"Pushing down on the head of the polisher engages the abrasives with the paint so they take little bites out of it"

It = your car's paint

At least, that's how I explain it in my classes and in videos...



Blackthorn One said:
You need to apply some pressure when polishing by hand.
Click to expand...

Yeperdoo... it's called....

Put a little passion behind the pad - Mike Phillips


Blackthorn One said:
A rotary on the other hand cuts so fast that the weight of the machine is enough, particularly if it is a heavier one.
Click to expand...


I know there's times when I've pushed down on a rotary really hard... so how hard to push depends upon what you're using and what you're trying to do...



:)
 
Shawn, where in NJ are you? I'm in Somerset and would be glad to stop by one day and give you some tips. I'm not a pro, but glad to help with what I know.
 
I'm in south jersey. Gloucester county. But appreciate the offer. If the weather holds out Im gonna try to remove swirls. If not i am going to wash,clay, then try poorboys black hole, and coat with some Natty blue I ordered . Hopefully I can get it done this sat and sunday.
I was gonna use insulator wax but just think its too cold for application now.
 
ShawnF350 said:
If the weather holds out Im gonna try to remove swirls.
Click to expand...

Cross you fingers...


ShawnF350 said:
If not i am going to wash,clay, then try poorboys black hole, and coat with some Natty blue I ordered . Hopefully I can get it done this sat and sunday.

The Black Hole Glaze actually works pretty good and topping it with some Natty's Blue Paste Wax should hold your car's paint over till the weather turns warmer.

Good luck with it...


:xyxthumbs:
Click to expand...
 
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