How to create a Silicon Carbide coating?

[hokiedood]

I had Opti-coat Pro+ professionally applied to my car. It isn't resistance to having natural stuff such as tree sap and grit adhere to the coating.

I can't really do a touchless wash to get my car totally clean. So I would need to wash it with a microfiber towel and decon with a clay bar. That may actually cause marring and scratches. I wouldn't be able to mechanically polish those out without removing the Opti-coat Pro+ coating.

This circumstance has me thinking can I actually create a SiC coating myself. Has anyone here thought about creating such a coating or even successfully created one? I've done a bit of research but I'm not a chemist. Along with my research I've found nano SiC readily available to be bought online. Here are some questions I have:

1. Is it as simple as suspending the nano SiC powder into some type of liquid? Maybe a very, very light UV resin?
2. Would the above actually bond to the clear coat when applied?

If I'm totally off on the above what is an alternative? Can I create a chemical reaction that creates SiC (or SiSiC?) on top of the clear coat and thus creating a bond?

 

[Dr Oldz]

Welcome to AutoGeek!

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Welcome to AutogeekOnline! :welcome:


I say go for it. My joke about coatings goes like this,

As I stand in front of someone or a group of people I turn around in a circle and as I do this I say,

In the time it took me to run around in a circle a new coating has just been introduced to the market


Good luck....

 

[FUNX650]

I had Opti-coat Pro+ professionally applied to my car. It isn't resistance to having natural stuff such as tree sap and grit adhere to the coating.

I can't really do a touchless wash to get my car totally clean. So I would need to wash it with a microfiber towel and decon with a clay bar. That may actually cause marring and scratches. I wouldn't be able to mechanically polish those out without removing the Opti-coat Pro+ coating.

This circumstance has me thinking can I actually create a SiC coating myself. Has anyone here thought about creating such a coating or even successfully created one? I've done a bit of research but I'm not a chemist. Along with my research I've found nano SiC readily available to be bought online. Here are some questions I have:

1. Is it as simple as suspending the nano SiC powder into some type of liquid? Maybe a very, very light UV resin?
2. Would the above actually bond to the clear coat when applied?

If I'm totally off on the above what is an alternative? Can I create a chemical reaction that creates SiC (or SiSiC?) on top of the clear coat and thus creating a bond?

•When it comes to SiO2/SiC Coatings...

-I would never go as far as saying you
are totally off on all of the above.

-However, if you are really serious about
formulating your own, then, IMO: you
should probably start at ‘the beginning’.

Bob

 

[The Guz]

I had Opti-coat Pro+ professionally applied to my car. It isn't resistance to having natural stuff such as tree sap and grit adhere to the coating.

I can't really do a touchless wash to get my car totally clean. So I would need to wash it with a microfiber towel and decon with a clay bar. That may actually cause marring and scratches. I wouldn't be able to mechanically polish those out without removing the Opti-coat Pro+ coating.

This circumstance has me thinking can I actually create a SiC coating myself. Has anyone here thought about creating such a coating or even successfully created one? I've done a bit of research but I'm not a chemist. Along with my research I've found nano SiC readily available to be bought online. Here are some questions I have:

1. Is it as simple as suspending the nano SiC powder into some type of liquid? Maybe a very, very light UV resin?
2. Would the above actually bond to the clear coat when applied?

If I'm totally off on the above what is an alternative? Can I create a chemical reaction that creates SiC (or SiSiC?) on top of the clear coat and thus creating a bond?

For what it’s worth Optimum recommends a chemical decon. At the same time they recommend using their clay towel with optimum car wax to clay the surface without marring the surface due to the lubricity in the car wax.

Plenty of videos in the tag company’s YouTube channel.

 

[SWETM]

I had Opti-coat Pro+ professionally applied to my car. It isn't resistance to having natural stuff such as tree sap and grit adhere to the coating.

I can't really do a touchless wash to get my car totally clean. So I would need to wash it with a microfiber towel and decon with a clay bar. That may actually cause marring and scratches. I wouldn't be able to mechanically polish those out without removing the Opti-coat Pro+ coating.

This circumstance has me thinking can I actually create a SiC coating myself. Has anyone here thought about creating such a coating or even successfully created one? I've done a bit of research but I'm not a chemist. Along with my research I've found nano SiC readily available to be bought online. Here are some questions I have:

1. Is it as simple as suspending the nano SiC powder into some type of liquid? Maybe a very, very light UV resin?
2. Would the above actually bond to the clear coat when applied?

If I'm totally off on the above what is an alternative? Can I create a chemical reaction that creates SiC (or SiSiC?) on top of the clear coat and thus creating a bond?

Have you tried just a thorough chemical decon wash?

I link them for you and go through how I would go with it. I'm not so knowledge about Optimum products but what I have heard is they are solid. You may send an email to Optimum and ask if any of their products should be avoid on their coating if you want to be very safe. What I do know is that ceramic coatings is very resistant against chemicals. And if you don't aggitate them and just rinse it off very thoroughly and if a lot of contaminants you may need another application of the chemicals. A PW is to prefer as the water pressure from the PW to clean with is what's doing the heavy lifting. Other brands do chemical decon products that are safe on their coatings and most others. It's some top coatings that give you a slicker and more hydrophobic layer that can be sensitive to some chemicals. Carpro Gliss is one of these that you don't want to use a tar remover on. Now when I read about Optimum TAR remover it's based on soya been oils IIRC. Don't know how aggressive that is on coatings. So that I would ask Optimum about and also which dilution their Power Clean is safe for their coating.

Apply the tar remover on a dry car and let it dwell and clean rinse off with the PW. Lower panels and the back of the car if you have tar spots and horisontall if you have tree sap. And sometimes it's effective on the road film so you apply it on the whole cars paint. Tar remover can be harsh on the clear plastic as headlights and on rubber. Work on an section so you don't let it dry on the paint and you are fine.

Here you can ad a wash with car soap and I suggest you get one bottle of Carpro Reset car soap. As it's one of the best to clean a ceramic coating with and made to be deep clean coatings. This step is if you don't have a blowdryer of some kind. If you do have it you can wait with the wash. If not you dry the car after the wash.

Now the Ferrex iron remover which also seems to be desolveing tar and then tree sap too. IME these combo products useally don't perform as the dedicated ones. But if you don't have much of tar and tree sap you could try this as the first step on the dry paint. Why I say dry paint is so you don't dilute the chemicals with the standing water on the paint and make them less effective. Apply it over the whole car and let it dwell and then clean rinsing it off before it dries on the paint. And apply in sections if you feel safer and if it's hot outside and always in the shade. If you see the bleeding reaction take a mental notice where it was the most bleeding. Then spray a couple of sprays on that area and see if it still bleeds. If so one more application is necessary. No need to dry after this.

Apply Power Clean at a normal dirt dilution 1:3 and spray it on the car. Let dwell and then clean rinsing it off with the PW.

Do the car wash if you have not done it before. And also ask if the MDR is safe on their coatings. Or get another brands water spot remover that you spray on and rinse or wipe it off. The foam applicator and MDR seems to be a little too aggressive. This is if you see water spots and or the beading and sheeting properties has degraded on the coating. Cause this can be mineral deposits and lime scale that mask the water behavior on your coating. Do a test spot with it and see if you get a better water behavior on that spot. Otherwise it's not needed if you don't have any other water spots and test to remove them. If they are older and etched on the paint it will not help you. But if you are lucky you can degrade them to less visible and it's just to test. If you use these MDR I would wash again.

Apply the recommended topper or other one. Or let it ride on it's own. Depending on the environment you live in and what kind of dirt and contaminants you get. Do this around every 3-6 months. You can also spot treat it when you see tree sap for an example.

Optimum T.A.R. Remover

Optimum FerreX Iron Remover

Optimum MDR Mineral Deposit Remover, water spot remover for paint, water spot remover glass

Optimum Power Clean All Purpose Cleaner 17 oz.

What have you used to do a touchless wash until now?

/ Tony

 

[hokiedood]

What have you used to do a touchless wash until now?

I've been using Chemical Guys Citrus Wash and Gloss. I mix it up with hot water use it with my IK9 foam sprayer. Let it sit for 5 mins and rinse it off with a PW. There's still sap and grit though.

 

[SWETM]

I've been using Chemical Guys Citrus Wash and Gloss. I mix it up with hot water use it with my IK9 foam sprayer. Let it sit for 5 mins and rinse it off with a PW. There's still sap and grit though.

And you will notice that the glossenhancers in CG Citrus Wash and Gloss will be masking the water behavior and self cleaning ability from your coating sadly. Get you some Gyeon Foam or Gtechnic W4 Citrus Foam or maybe GG Surface Wash. These don't leave anything behind on your coating.

Think you have got the wrong expectations on what the coating will be doing for you. You still will get contaminants bonded to the ceramic coating but later than most LSP. A thorough wash with Reset or the like on every 3-4 wash. In between you can get away with touchless washing. But at last you need to be touch washing your car. Cause a coating is not maintance free. It will look cleaner than most LSPs between the washes but you still needs to do a wash every other week or so. If not you will get a lot of contaminants build up on your coating and it will look dirtier and dirtier. And something like tree sap will still be getting on your car. But is mostly easier to remove. And a tar remover will make it so you don't need to be getting the tree sap gunk in your wash media. I just do a spritz or 2 on the tree sap spot and let it dwell and PW clean rinsing it off before my wash. You may get away with a mf towel to wipe it off with a car soap solution. But you can still have a little residue of it left. That's also a reason I use a tar remover to desolve it and get it off thoroughly.

And remember as soon as you use a product that leaves something behind as protection or glossenhancers or even surfactants. That products behavior is what you have now in combo with the coating behavior. The more it leaves behind the more it takes over with it's behavior and looks.

What maintance directions did you get from the coating installer?

 

[hokiedood]

What maintance directions did you get from the coating installer?

They told me to wash every other week with ONR. I do wash every other week.

Since Opticoat pro+ is resistant to chemicals of any pH can I just do a chemical decon every other week in place of using a shampoo?

 

[The Guz]

They told me to wash every other week with ONR. I do wash every other week.

Since Opticoat pro+ is resistant to chemicals of any pH can I just do a chemical decon every other week in place of using a shampoo?

See my post above How to create a Silicon Carbide coating?

You don't need to decon every other week. 3-4 times a year at most.

By the way you an actually wash every week with ONR and not have any issues. You can also wash with a shampoo in between if you so desire. It is all personal preference.

If you have time listen to this Optimum podcast. At around the 20 min mark they discuss the steps for a decon wash.

Optimum Synergy Podcast: Questions and Answers from HQ, And Cory, Who Makes Fresh!

 

[SWETM]

They told me to wash every other week with ONR. I do wash every other week.

Since Opticoat pro+ is resistant to chemicals of any pH can I just do a chemical decon every other week in place of using a shampoo?

If theres no need to I would not do it. Also it's a good practice to wash after a chemical decon wash with a car soap to neutralise any leftovers from the chemicals and also to clean of any residue left behind on the coating as some can cling hard and mask the coatings behavior.

The prewash foam is a kind of chemical decon as it's made to be applyied on and let it dwell and rinse off. No use with a wash media. I think that we are a step ahead here in EU with prewashes and it's use. That's makes the offerings on products larger too. We have something called TFR traffic film remover which is a prewash with a higher ph levels. You can do like these on your own. With the prewash foams mentioned before and ad in a water soluble degreaser in that solution. The citrus based degreasers is very effective to desolve a wider range of dirt and contaminants. The Citrus Wash and Gloss I think is only the smell of it that's citrus and also the Meguiars Citrus Blast Wash and Wax is also just citrus scented. 3D has a kind of a new line called 3D Super and is more concentrated products that comes in half gallons. You can apply a degreaser with a pump pressure spray bottle or spray bottle and when it's dwelled you foam on the prewash foam. This I do when needed to have a little extra on the bug squash on the front. So just spray on the chemical solution I use on the bug squash on the front and front of the roof. When dwelled I foam the prewash right over it and let that do it's thing. And use the water pressure from the PW to clean with more effective and let it hit every part of the vehical.

3D Super Citrus APC

3D Super Pre-Soak

3D Super Duty Degreaser

The super presoak and super citrus APC seems to be nice products and you could combo with. Spray the citrus APC where needed and then foam on the super presoak. And if haveing a greasy mess on hand the super duty degreaser.

Depending on what kind of environment you live in. The wash with only ONR is not enough of cleaning ability I think. I would go with Carpro Reset car soap and wash with it a couple of times in the row to get your car cleaner. Then use it every 3-5 wash or monthly and wash with ONR in between. And you could get away with touchless washing in between the washes with Reset or any other coating soap like that. IMO you don't get away with touchless washing only. And it's also a higher risk of marring and scratches if drying with mf drying towels. So I recommend to use a blowdryer of some kind if you touchless washing. Then you also see if the dirt build up when you blowdry the car is to much as it's harder for the water to blow off the paint. And when noticed that you know that the next wash would be a touching wash. The touching wash don't take that much of extra time on a coated car either. So if you see the water behavior is not as useally when you clean rinsing the prewash off. I would do a 2bm wash with a car soap made for being used on coated cars or an ONR rinseless wash or waterless wash.

 

[hokiedood]

I'm going to try a chemical decon with Optimum Prower Clean. So my plan is:

1. Spray down car with OPC + hot water at 3:1 dilution
2. Let it sit for 2 minutes
3. Go over entire car with microfiber towels soaked in ONR to agitate OPC and to loosen dirt & grit
4. Rinse car off with pressure washer
5. Dry car off with clean microfiber towels

Does this sound like a good plan? Also is it okay if I get OPC on the windows?

 

[SWETM]

I'm going to try a chemical decon with Optimum Prower Clean. So my plan is:

1. Spray down car with OPC + hot water at 3:1 dilution
2. Let it sit for 2 minutes
3. Go over entire car with microfiber towels soaked in ONR to agitate OPC and to loosen dirt & grit
4. Rinse car off with pressure washer
5. Dry car off with clean microfiber towels

Does this sound like a good plan? Also is it okay if I get OPC on the windows?

Absolutely looks like a good way to go. I would work on smaller sections at first. And then increase the section as much you are able to do before the OPC dries on the paint.

 

[The Guz]

I'm going to try a chemical decon with Optimum Prower Clean. So my plan is:

1. Spray down car with OPC + hot water at 3:1 dilution
2. Let it sit for 2 minutes
3. Go over entire car with microfiber towels soaked in ONR to agitate OPC and to loosen dirt & grit
4. Rinse car off with pressure washer
5. Dry car off with clean microfiber towels

Does this sound like a good plan? Also is it okay if I get OPC on the windows?

In the link to the podcast the guys at optimum break it down step by step on how to decon. I forget the actual steps but it is on the podcast at the 20 min mark.

 

[daniel58]

I had Opti-coat Pro+ professionally applied to my car. It isn't resistance to having natural stuff such as tree sap and grit adhere to the coating.

I can't really do a touchless wash to get my car totally clean. So I would need to wash it with a microfiber towel and decon with a clay bar. That may actually cause marring and scratches. I wouldn't be able to mechanically polish those out without removing the Opti-coat Pro+ coating.

This circumstance has me thinking can I actually create a SiC coating myself. Has anyone here thought about creating such a coating or even successfully created one? I've done a bit of research but I'm not a chemist. Along with my research I've found nano SiC readily available to be bought online. Here are some questions I have:

1. Is it as simple as suspending the nano SiC powder into some type of liquid? Maybe a very, very light UV resin?
2. Would the above actually bond to the clear coat when applied?

If I'm totally off on the above what is an alternative? Can I create a chemical reaction that creates SiC (or SiSiC?) on top of the clear coat and thus creating a bond?

Yes one would have to get the nano sized silicone carbide particles and suspend them in a light ultraviolet resin with viscosity resembling that of light mineral oil;

now to get it to chemically physically bond to the vehicle clear coat would require using something like a professional quality level clear coat supplies outfitter such as Restoration shop; where they sell gallon of clear coat kit with resin and hardener components; simply load up the mixed up resin and hardener combination enough to fill a four ounce plunge syringe purchased on amazon; and then simply apply ten to twelve drops of previous mixture to finger tip microfiber applicator just like one would apply ceramic sealant; let dry for two days and one should have a very durable and long lasting clear coat with the desired silicone carbide characteristics

 

[daniel58]

Yes one would have to get the nano sized silicone carbide particles and have them suspended in a light ultraviolet resin with the viscosity resembling that of light mineral oil;

Now to get it to chemically physically bond to the vehicle clear coat would require using something like a professional quality level clear coat supplies outfitter such as Restoration shop; where they sell gallon of clear coat kit with resin and hardener components;

then simply load up the mixed up resin and hardener combination enough to fill a four ounce plunge syringe purchased on amazon; and then simply apply ten to twelve drops of previous mixture to finger tip microfiber applicator or a regular ceramic foam block/suede micro-textured micro application cloth just like one would typically apply ones selected ceramic application sealant;

then simply let dry for two days without exposure to moisture and one should have a very highly durable and long lasting clear coat with the desired objective silicone carbide characteristics so long as one washes ones vehicles typical finish once every ten days to keep its surface free of any potential organic road contamination particles and/or abrasive road grime film.

 

[hokiedood]

Yes one would have to get the nano sized silicone carbide particles and suspend them in a light ultraviolet resin with viscosity resembling that of light mineral oil;

now to get it to chemically physically bond to the vehicle clear coat would require using something like a professional quality level clear coat supplies outfitter such as Restoration shop; where they sell gallon of clear coat kit with resin and hardener components; simply load up the mixed up resin and hardener combination enough to fill a four ounce plunge syringe purchased on amazon; and then simply apply ten to twelve drops of previous mixture to finger tip microfiber applicator just like one would apply ceramic sealant; let dry for two days and one should have a very durable and long lasting clear coat with the desired silicone carbide characteristics

Why is practically almost every Si coating made using SiO2 then if it's that simple?

 

[daniel58]

The SiO2 is somewhat relatively unstable in comparison with nano-sized particles of silicone carbide particles plus the silicone carbide has a hardness factor that is almost the equal to that of the hardest substance on earth the diamond.

Typical SiO2 ceramic coatings also do not typically last as long as marketed and advertised; which unfortunately increases their effective cost by a factor of two to three times their original purchase cost; this is in addition to the surface preparation costs which can be quite comprehensive in scope and cost also as well; simply because they require ongoing comprehensive regular scheduled of wash and organic vehicle surface decontamination maintenance protocols and procedures to be followed quite rigorously.

Now since these cumulative costs are so much higher than expected one usually better served in the long run with investing ones time and effort into a much longer term solution; if one is interested in both saving money as well as saving significant amounts of time also as well.