How to get rid of rotary induced swirls

[zckid]

Hello Mike and others

I received my 1st supplies from AG. They did quite nicely n replaced my broken ONR. Thanks so much. :dblthumb2: I got myself the Power gloss S34A, 203s, PO85rd and Power Lock, Optimum ONR + some LC CCS pads.
6.5 pads: (I Yellow, 2 orange, 2 white, 1 gray/black + 1 Red UltraSoft)
4” pads: (2 Orange, 2 White and 2 Gray/Black)


I have had to wait several weeks before actually trying the Menz products on a friend's Toyota Camy, faded red in color. But we had limited time coz my friend had to move. I gave the car a wash, dried and clayed only the roof and the bonnet, ONR as clay lube. The clay picked up quite some contaminants.

Sorry for limited pics coz of limited time and my little boy was lurking around. Besides. the weather not detailing-friendly. I used the Power Gloss on an orange CCs pad, the 203s on a white pad and the PO85rd on a black one. I did the bonnet and half of the roof.

Here are some pics

The pads turned red. Is this normal for faded paint? (I mean for all the pads during the various steps)

A reflection pic of the bonnet. It was cloudy and started to rain too.

However I have a concern. The bonnet looks glossy and reflective but under the light, there are some buffer- induced swirls.

Any advice on how I can get rid of these?
I’m wondering if I’m not working the compound and polish fully, or using incorrect speeds and number of passes. Any information on how I can correct these? Or can you guide me on the polish/pad/passes/speed combination with the Menz products stated above?
Feed back please

Other questions:
In the absence of IPA or mineral spirits, can I use the ONR for wipe-down after each buffing step?
How do you best apply the Powerlock Sealant?

Your advice, comments are most welcome as always . :xyxthumbs:

Thanks a lot

Zaid
(from the island of sea, sand, sun and swirls)

 

[DLB]

Just to hit the highlights for you:

1. First thing I would try as far as the swirls (commonly called holograms) would be refine as much in your second step as possible (the 203 on the white pad). By refine I mean perhaps a little lower RPM than you are using, and polish it completely until the polish has broken down. You may have done that, but that is where I would start. Then the final refinement is the PO85rd on the black pad - slow your speed down and work it for a while, just polishing. Any finer marks will come out, and the 85 will work for a pretty long time. Edit: Forgot to say - make sure you are keeping the pad flat to the surface as much as possible.

2. The paint is single stage - that is why the color gets on your pads. There isn't a clear coat, only a paint coat. Common on older cars and certain makes/models. No worries. Just clean your pads as good as you can. They will probably stain, but that won't effect their ability.

3. An ONR wipedown is the best because it isn't really "stripping" anything. Not sure where "(from the island of sea, sand, sun and swirls)" is but both Mineral Spirits and IPA should be available if there are any places that sell medicine or paint.

DLB

 

[MrHandWash]

Megs SMR Swirl-X/Ultimate Compound with light cut compound pads might be a good start.

3M 3000 series is for light swirls, as well as Pinnacle Ultra Fine SMR #1 is for ultra fine SM's, use with light 6.5 CC pad.

There are others, just look around. I'm sure someone else more knowledgable will chime in. Just sitck with Ultra fine to intermediate SM removers.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

When it comes to troubleshooting where the swirls are coming from, here's a tip...

Step 1 - For the compounding step do your finishing passes in one direction, usually side to side, like from one fender to the other fender, so across the hood...

Step 2 - Then for the next step, do your finishing passes moving the polisher front to back, for example in the direction of the bumper to the windshield.

Now Inspect
At this point, strip the finish and check to see if there are holograms and if there are, which direction are they running?

Diagnose
If they are in the direction of the compounding step this means your polishing process isn't cutting out the swirls left by the compounding step.

If they are in the direction of the second step, that means the second step is removing the compounding step and that's a good sign but now you need to continue and re-polish using a less aggressive pad and polish combination that's aggressive enough to remove the swirls from the second step but finish out swirl-free.
​

In your collection of products you listed, it looks like the Menzerna PO85RD and the Red Foam Finishing Pad would be a good combination to try. Start out with firm pressure as you need this to abrade the paint and cut out the existing swirls and then as you finish the section you're buffing lessen your pressure to finish out so you're not re-instilling swirls albeit more shallow swirls.

Now wipe that area clean and re-polish again using fresh product and clean your pad and now unlike the first pass where you were using firm pressure, just start out with light pressure, now you're massaging the paint of jeweling the paint and the goal is to work out any light swirls left by the last step and polish till the surface is 100% flat, this means lessening your pressure during your last passes while keeping the pad completely flat and even.

Creating a 100% swirl free or hologram free finish on a clear coat paint system using only a rotary buffer is not the easiest thing to do and besides using perfect or expert technique with the right pad and polish it also requires that the paint you're polishing to be somewhat polishable and some paints are more polishable than others and you really won't know until you try and the strip the paint and move the car in to full, BRIGHT overhead sun and inspect.

This last part, the part about stripping the paint and moving the car into bright overhead sun is the only way you can 100% know for sure --> you <-- created a 100% swirl free finish. This is also the step I never see or hear of anyone doing to confirm they did in-fact produce a swirl free finish. Easy to talk about... time consuming to prove and it means undoing the high gloss results you just created...


An easier way to get to a finish that is guaranteed to not have any Rotary Buffer induced Buffer Swirls or Holograms, (pick the term you like as they mean the same thing), is to...

Change the action of the tool....

That is switch to a tool that offers both rotating and oscillating action and by doing this you will ensure there are no swirls that will show up later down the road after the polishing oils, waxes and/or sealants wear off...

 

[zckid]

Thanks for your replies guys. I really vey much appreciate the valuable tips you share.

@DLB
Actually, I'm in Mauritius. :laughing: There's no such thing as detailing here.
As for IPA and mineral spirits, I inquired a lot but unfortunately couldn't find any. So I'll stick with ONR (may be until i find IPA locally)

Thanks for all your info. I'll work the 203 somewhat longer prior to the 85rd

@ MrHandWash
thanks for your suggestions, but what you mentioned are simply not available locally. :doh:

@ Mike
Thanks a lot Mike. I actually read a lot of your posts of removal of swirls n holograms. I'll try your tips for sure.


:help: Still, if it is possible to have a guideline on the number of passes and speed using the PG, 203 and 85rd, may be in this way for the 3 polishes:

Menzerna Power Gloss (S34A)
Pad: LC Orange or yellow
Area: 50cm x 50cm
Spread: 600-1000 rpm for 1 pass
Working: 1200 rpm for 2 passes
1500 rpm for 3 passes
Finishing: 1200 rpm for 2 passes

As DLB pointed out the paint is single coated, has it anything to do with the end buffer swirls?

what would be your best way to apply the Powerlock Sealant?

Newbies (aka me) feed off :hungry: the knowledge you guys give us here. :xyxthumbs:

:thankyousign: again

Regards

Zaid

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

As DLB pointed out the paint is single coated, has it anything to do with the end buffer swirls?

Single stage paints tend to be softer than clear coat paint but there are exceptions.

Single stage paints tend to be very polishable... try cleaning your softest finishing pad or switch to a new one, then turn your polisher down to it's lowest setting, 600 RPM and then slowly and methodically using very light pressure and keeping your pad flat re-polish using the PO85RD

what would be your best way to apply the Powerlock Sealant?

In my honest opinion, with a finishing pad on a DA Polisher. If you don't have a DA Polisher then apply by hand.

 

[sohail99]

No OTC detailing products and swirl removers available there?

btw go to any medicine store/chemist and ask him for surgical spirit or doctor's spirit! That is IsoPropyl Alcohol.

Did you start out with a rotary polisher straight away?

Since you have a rotary, I'd suggest you apply Powerlock by hand and really thin!

 

[zckid]

Thanks again Mike :xyxthumbs:

will try this during the week or next weekend.

BTW is a larger pad better for finishing or a smaller one?

No OTC detailing products and swirl removers available there?

btw go to any medicine store/chemist and ask him for surgical spirit or doctor's spirit! That is IsoPropyl Alcohol.

Did you start out with a rotary polisher straight away?

Since you have a rotary, I'd suggest you apply Powerlock by hand and really thin!

Better not use most of the available products for paint here if you really care for your ride.

I did go to the drugstores, there is a version of modified alohol, but don't know what it's made of. I've asked a friend who happens to be a pharmacist to inquire abt the same.


I started with a rotary directly. It was a Clarke, a 5 kg monster. I tried it on a scrap hood and 2 cars. I had a problem with it of late and its parts are unavailable locally.

So I switched to a Makita (wife not knowing or she'll have me fired :bash: ), and left the Clarke with a friend. The Makita's got a better feel, though i've used it only once.


As for the Powerlock, i guess you mean an applicator pad? or by hand?
Both of you saying "by hand"

Wait to hear from you guys

Thanks a lot n take care :dblthumb2:

Zaid

 

[sohail99]

The size of the pad you use, depends on:

- the size of the panel you're working on
- whether the panel is flat for the most part or it has curves etc.
- whether the machine you're using has the power to rotate the pad under pressure and while the pad becomes loaded with product.

Personally, I prefer 6.5" pads as they are kinda all round pads that I use for flat areas as well as curved ones.

----------------------------------

'By hand' means that you apply it with a sponge applicator pad!

Only certain carnauba waxes are applied by bare hands, but personally, I wouldn't touch my paint with bare hands ever! lol

btw what brands are available there?
I've been to Mauritius and its a dreamland, literally!!:xyxthumbs:

 

[zckid]

The size of the pad you use, depends on:

'By hand' means that you apply it with a sponge applicator pad!

:laughing: That's what I was wondering. seen very few applying waxes by hand btw.

The size of the pad you use, depends on:

btw what brands are available there?
I've been to Mauritius and its a dreamland, literally!!:xyxthumbs:

Quite a few brands are available, but not professional. they incluse Arexons, Abro. Turtle wax, Abel auto and the like. A few Megs & Autoglym consumer line products are available, but they are way overpriced.

I'm glad you came to our island. :dblthumb2: thanks for the compliment. that was when? any special souvenir?

 

[zckid]

Hi guys

thanks a lot for your priceless advice. :dblthumb2:

here are some updates. it took some while though

the 1st part

this i was working under fluoresent light. same process as above but spending some more time with the later stages.

2nd part
Got myself a home made sun gun n i tried to find what wasn't going well. compounded less, worked more but with less and less pressure during the later stages. It came out really well. the speed never exceeded 3 on the buffer.:buffing:

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Some reflection pics

Swirls hardly visible but personally, i've got a very long, long way to perfection.

Your thoughts and advice will be most appreciated
thanks to all of you. :xyxthumbs:

 

[jakesdad]

A LITTLE HELP HERE .... PLEASE

I'm sorry, but I need all those abbreviations spelled out.... I can't figure out what I'm reading half the time.... ONR/AG/PO85RD/IPA????

Kindest regards,

al

 

[sohail99]

^Reflection shots are amazing!! :xyxthumbs:

 

[zckid]

@ Al
A few months ago, I was like you. I'm sure you'll get along very quickly. Here you go.

Acronyms List rops:

Thanks a lot Sohail. :xyxthumbs:

 

[FUNX650]

No OTC detailing products and swirl removers available there?

I've come to the conclusion to remove swirls introduced during the compounding
process with a rotary buffer you need a swirl remover, proper pad selection, and proper rotary buffer speed. Then you can applyyour LSP of choice.

Bob

 

[sohail99]

I completely agree!!

But as he already has a few pads I was wondering whether any polishes were available OTC like, swirlX or UC etc. cause they work great with machine!

After you have the polish/compound in hand, then you can decide on the pad, depending on the paint condition!

 

[zckid]

I've come to the conclusion to remove swirls introduced during the compounding process with a rotary buffer you need a swirl remover, proper pad selection, and proper rotary buffer speed. Then you can applyyour LSP of choice.

Bob

You're spot on Bob. :xyxthumbs:

the only hurdle is to actually put this into application. :buffing::buffing:

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Thanks for the update!


:xyxthumbs:

 

[FUNX650]

The only hurdle is to actually put this into application. :buffing::buffing:

Thanks. If one has the discipline to: practice, practice, practice; then, all of that accumulative hard work begets experience for said application.

Bob