How to polish thin body panels

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

How to polish thin body panels


This is a question that comes up a lot in the detailing world. That is,

How do you compound and polish thin body panels without at the same time buffing on an edge or a raised body line?


Working by hand
One method is to work by hand. Working by hand will get the job done but believe it or not, more skill is required to work by hand than to work by machine.

Some people believe acquiring the skills to correctly use a machine to polish to perfection without at the same time inducing swirls into the paint or burning through the edges or high points is an art form.

The reason why is because not only does it require skill (which comes from real world hands-on experience plus knowledge), and also the right tools, pads and products to truly get perfect results... but it also requires something each of us as craftsmen bring to the table and that's the human elements of care and passion.

By this I mean if I'm going to hire a so called professional detailer to work on my car I don't want to hire a person that's merely in it for the money.

I want a person that truly has a passion for the craft and cares about their work, their customer's satisfaction and their own reputation. And it's from all of these things, skill, knowledge, the right tools, pads and products plus the human elements of care and passion that I believe polishing paint becomes an art form.


Now let me bring this back to why it requires more skill to work by hand than by machine.

With modern dual action orbital polishers just about anyone can get great results simply by turning on the machine and making a few methodical section passes over the paint. Of course it's also important to use high quality compounds and polishes but as long as a person is doing this then seriously, it's not like the old days when all we had was a rotary buffer or an old fashioned large orbital buffer.

With today’s orbital tools anyone can get high quality results by machine.

Not so when it comes to working by hand and when I say working by hand I mean removing swirls and scratches out of clearcoat paints.

Modern clearcoat paints are much harder than traditional single stage paints and it's this hardness factor that makes it more difficult for the average person to take their hand with their 5 fingers and rub hard enough and fast enough using the right applicator pad and compounds and polishes in order to actually remove swirls and scratches without leaving their own swirls and scratches in the paint at the same time.

I know for a fact from experience after spending most of my life teaching people how to polish paint including teaching both hand techniques and machine techniques and I'm here to tell you most people don't have the necessary skills to remove swirls and scratches by hand. They also don't have the patience nor physical ability to rub out an entire car by hand.

Sure they can hand apply a wax but there's a HUGE difference in spreading out a product and then wiping it off and forcing a compound or polish over the surface in a fast, tight controlled pattern with firm downward pressure to remove defects.

I'll even go as far as to say that when most people attempt to remove swirls and scratches by hand not only do they fail and give up but unless they are using high quality compounds and polishes chances are very good they'll do more damage than good. It is at this point the only way to recover from the damage is in fact to machine polish to correct the defects.


So how can a person compound and polish the thin panels on a car?

By machine of course! Using smaller pads on smaller tools and always using high quality compounds and polishes.


Here are some examples of thin body panels with either edges or raised body lines on either side of the flat thin sections of paint and how to use the Flex PE8 Kompact Rotary Polisher to work these areas safely.

Note how the 1" pad fits this thin body panel perfectly...

Finger Painting
I call this finger painting; it's where you smear some of the product you want to use onto the paint you want to buff when using small pads instead of trying to pick a bead up using the 10 @ 10 Technique.

Edge Priming
Lubricate the sides of your buffing pad anytime you're going to be buffing in tight areas.

Thin body panels
Most cars, both moderns and classics like this 1965 Mustang have thin body panels somewhere in the body design.

The 10 @ 10 Technique in action using a 3" pad

This is one method of how to polish thin body panels by machine to get the job done without having to be a seasoned expert in the art of hand polishing.


Here's where to get yours....

Flex PE8 Kompact Rotary Polisher

FLEX Rotary Backing Plates – 1, 2, 3 Inch Diameter

FLEX Rotary Foam Pads – 1, 2, 3 Inch Diameter

Rotary Backing Plate Extension


:dblthumb2:

 

[medicscott]

Mike, what speeds are you running the PE8 at? I find that non metallic painted surfaces are very susseptible to damage on higher speeds, and am a little scared to use my PE8 on the main body of a car. I'd love a video on what you just illustrated in the pictures. I found your How to book on the 3401 very helpful, but the PE8 is a totally different animal. I have all 3 plate and pad sizes in most colors. Just looking for some guidance on speeds and pressure.

Scott

 

[DetailKitty]

I so want to get this :xyxthumbs:

Thx for spending my money Mike :laughing:

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Mike, what speeds are you running the PE8 at?

Usually the lower speed settings like on the 1 and 2 speed setting when using foam pads.

It's been a while since I used the 3.5" wool pad for some heavy cutting on this hotrod but if memory serves me correctly I was still on the lower speed settings.

This is a fairly tricky area to get into and buff without having the buffing pad grab the window frame and yank you around. So I'm pretty sure I used the slowest speed settings and took my time.

The NEW FLEX PE8 Kompakt Rotary Polisher Polisher in ACTION!

You have to be very careful when buffing tight areas like the above so as not to heat up the paint.

I find that non metallic painted surfaces are very susceptible to damage on higher speeds,

I think all clearcoats are susceptible to heat damage. In my how-to book I talk about the term given to me by Jason Rose called,

Destructive Polishing

You can find this topic on pages 124 and 125 including temperatures to avoid and 2 ways to check and monitor surface temperature.

and am a little scared to use my PE8 on the main body of a car.

I would never use the Flex PE8 for any large panels, that's not what it's for. For large panels I'd use a full size polisher.

I'd love a video on what you just illustrated in the pictures. I found your How to book on the 3401 very helpful, but the PE8 is a totally different animal. I have all 3 plate and pad sizes in most colors.

Just looking for some guidance on speeds and pressure.

Scott

I'm all for making a video....

As for speeds you really want to stick with the lower speeds on this tool. The lowest RPM is 1300RPM and that's more than enough revolutions per minute to remove paint using the appropriate pad and compound. More speed increases the risk for more heat so stick with the lower speed settings.

As for pressure, you'll find if you apply too much pressure the smallest foam pads simply collapse. That's the nature of foam when you're using very small amounts of it. You want to change your technique for holding the polisher by placing your forward hand UNDER the body of the tool, not on top of the body of the tool and this will give you much better control over the amount of pressure you're applying.

Kind of how you see in this picture from this thread....

Below are some pictures from a section on jeweling from the above thread as this Corvette was a rotary buffer only project. These soft foam jeweling pads compress very easily like the small 1", 2" and 3" pads and even more so as they become wet with product so "you" have to be monitoring the weight of the tool and thus the compression of the pads.



1990 Corvette - Extreme Makeover Pictures & Process

Less than the weight of the machine
This is showing that we're actually using a little bit less than the weight of the machine for the last few passes for this section. The idea being that polishing paint is an art form, not a grinding process. As the pad becomes wet with product it will easily compress with just the weight of the tool. For your last few passes you want light pressure via the pad contact, now heavy pressure and to get light contact you need to watch and prevent pad compression.

Two fingers up front holding the weight of the tool and guiding it at the same time....

 

[Craig Parker]

Another great thread Mike, thanks for sharing, just what I need for those thin panels.:dblthumb2:

 

[Mike@DedicatedPerfection]

Looking good their boss! Thanks for putting it together and sharing.

:urtheman:

 

[medicscott]

Amazing insight. Thank you for the clarification. And yes, what I meant by the main body of the car was areas that aren't reachable by the 3401 like A posts, etc...Luckilly the damage I caused was with a junker and not a customer. I always like to press the limits of new equipment (train) before I try on the real thing. I really appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions with such detail.

Scott

 

[axel06]

wow you really dont miss any part of da paint.... your the man.. shirts off 2 ya..... sweeeet

 

[Rsurfer]

Nice write up Mike, but are they thin body panels or narrow panels? When I first saw the topic, I thought you were going to show us how to polish thin paint.rops:

 

[swanicyouth]

I'm wondering if anyone who has used a DA to polish out the majority of the car, and then this little rotary on the small parts has had an issues with holograms on the rotary sections???

 

[medicscott]

I'm wondering if anyone who has used a DA to polish out the majority of the car, and then this little rotary on the small parts has had an issues with holograms on the rotary sections???

From my limited experience with the PE8 if you use on slow speeds there are 0 issues with holograms. Mikes write-up gave me the confidence to use it today on a 2012 M5. Came out mint. Just go at speed 1 or 2. Works flawlessly. I also recommend the extension screw so that you can see what you are doing.

 

[Rsurfer]

I'm wondering if anyone who has used a DA to polish out the majority of the car, and then this little rotary on the small parts has had an issues with holograms on the rotary sections???

Mike had a thread where he was using the 3" pad and needed to finish down with a DA. This was on a large panel and I don't think it would show on a pillar.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Nice write up Mike, but are they thin body panels or narrow panels?

Guess I could have used the word narrow instead of thin. I think the words are fairly interchangeable. Most of the time when I'm either talking or typing to people about body panels that are not wide I use the word thin but narrow is a good word too.

When I first saw the topic, I thought you were going to show us how to polish thin paint.

I guess I would have used a title like,

How to polish thin paint

If it was going to be about how to polish thin paint. Instead I used the word thin and added the words body panels and then in the article I added LOTS of pictures showing thin/narrow panels being polished to kind of tie it all together.

This thread has 970 views on our forum. On my Facebook page it has over 13,000 views. 13,536 to be exact as of this morning.


rops:

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

I'm wondering if anyone who has used a DA to polish out the majority of the car, and then this little rotary on the small parts has had an issues with holograms on the rotary sections???

Good question. I think, from experience, it depends on 4 factors.

1. The paint.
2. The abrasive technology being used for the last machine polishing step.
3. The pad being used.
4. The technique being used.

Mike had a thread where he was using the 3" pad and needed to finish down with a DA. This was on a large panel and

Do you remember the title of the thread or article? If so... add it to this thread as I'd like to read it to get the full context.

I don't think it would show on a pillar.

I agree.

On thin or narrow panels if you leave a little bit of hologramming BUT you removed all the rest of the swirls, scratches, oxidation, water spots etc., by the time you apply a wax or sealant or even a coating you would never see the fine holograms simply because it's a narrow panel.

Again, the above 4 factors come into play when using only a rotary buffer and each person can decide for themselves just how much time, work and energy they want to invest into whatever car project they're detailing to reach perfection or their goal for a quality finish.

After using a rotary on a thin/narrow panel a person could also simply hand apply a high quality finishing polish to remove any faint holograms if they want to be UBER careful.



:xyxthumbs:

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

From my limited experience with the PE8 if you use on slow speeds there are 0 issues with holograms.

Mikes write-up gave me the confidence to use it today on a 2012 M5. Came out mint. Just go at speed 1 or 2. Works flawlessly.

I also recommend the extension screw so that you can see what you are doing.

Good to hear and "yes" the extension can really come in handy sometimes when polishing paint.

Also comes in handy if you use a pad washer....

Video: Tip for cleaning pads in a pad washer

I took this picture some time ago to show how you can use an adapter or extension on a rotary buffer to make cleaning a pad easier when cleaning pads in a pad washer.

How it works
When using the Grit Guard Universal Pad Washer, the correct technique is to pump the pad up and down against the Grit Gard Insert as this causes the spring loaded water pumps to pump or inject water and/or water and cleaning solution into the face of the pad.

By using an extension you make it easier to pump or move the rotary buffer up and down inside the pad washer without the body of the rotary buffer bumping into the Splash Guard Lid.

This video uses a when cleaning a pad but it shows and explains how the water pumps work and how to pump any polisher up and down against the Grit Guard Insert inside the pad washer.

How to use a Grit Guard Universal Pad Washer
[video=youtube_share;TulZhDuDbqE"]How To clean your Buffing Pads - YouTube[/video]​

On Autogeek.net

Lake Country Double-Sided Pad Rotary Buffer Adapter

Optimum Double-Sided Pad Rotary Buffer Adapter

:xyxthumbs:

 

[Rsurfer]

Do you remember the title of the thread or article? If so... add it to this thread as I'd like to read it to get the full context.

Here it is, see 2:00-2:10 also 2:51
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zxbj0EI52E

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Here it is, see 2:00-2:10 also 2:51

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zxbj0EI52E

Got it. The reason I didn't remember is because you said I a had a thread.

Mike had a thread where he was using the 3" pad and needed to finish down with a DA. This was on a large panel and I don't think it would show on a pillar.

I kept trying to think what thread that was in as even though I have a lot of threads on this forum I tend to be able to remember where most topics are, at least close enough I can Google the topic and my name and find the thread.


That's not a thread it's a YouTube video and it's not mine. That is I didn't take the video or upload it to YouTube. Raymond Vega did.

Sorry for the confusion on my part but I was trying to think of a thread not a video.


But "yes" I'll stick by what I said and in fact, I demonstrated under excruciating lights on the large flat BLACK paint panel all week long and if you use a small foam cutting pads like I was using in the video then you will definitely leave holograms in the paint. It will be REALLY easy to see on black paint but it will happen on all paint.

You can try to move down to softer foam finishing pads and less aggressive pads to "try" to finish out hologram free on large flat flat panels like I demonstrate on at shows but my experience has been small pads can and will tend to leave some type of hologram in the paint. The polishing oils can mask the holograms so it's safer to simply switch to a DA Polisher (of some sort) and by doing this you're changing the action of the tool and the oscillating action will work out the hologram scratch pattern.

For thin or narrow panels it's less important because it's hard to see holograms on thin/narrow panels. What's more important is to remove the defects.

And of course you should always follow a compound and a foam cutting pad with a less aggressive pad and product.

Thanks for digging that up, since it's not my video I tend to forget about it.

Also if you note, I was wearing a t-shirt in that video. That's because that video was taken on Monday. Monday is set-up day. SEMA doesn't start till Tuesday and I'll guarantee you on Tuesday Team Autogeek is in uniform. Like from a year or two ago, again... a pure black panel.

Mind Blowing - Rupes Blue Foam Cutting Pad and Zephir Gloss Coarse Gel Compound

:xyxthumbs:

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

From my limited experience with the PE8 if you use on slow speeds there are 0 issues with holograms.

Mikes write-up gave me the confidence to use it today on a 2012 M5. Came out mint.

Just go at speed 1 or 2. Works flawlessly. I also recommend the extension screw so that you can see what you are doing.

Thanks for sharing.

There's no more risk for holograms with a 1" pad on a FLEX PE8 than there is with a RUPES iBrid and a 1" pad in rotary mode.