Hydrofluoric Acid to clean wheels?

Eric

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Hydrofluoric Acid to clean wheels?


Found out that one of the local express detailers are using this to clean customer's wheels (it's their "go to" wheel cleaner from what I'm told) and this struck me as an astronomically bad idea.

Am I out of the loop here or is it indeed a bad idea?


:dunno:
 
Re: Hydrofluroic acid to clean wheels?!?

At toyota in ontario Canada to be exact, we are told to use Tire Acid. Boy that stuff stinks and it can turn the tires an ugly brown.
 
Re: Hydrofluroic acid to clean wheels?!?

Yes you can clean your wheels with Hydrofluroic acid though it is better options out there as we know but when your that kind of dealer or detailer that thinks of only money you will resort to the most strongest, stinkiest product to get the job done faster but as a result it will do more harm than good to both you and the item begin cleaned
 
Re: Hydrofluroic acid to clean wheels?!?

Even diluted, I would not want to deal with this.

Hydrofluoric acid is a solution of hydrogen fluoride (HF) in water.

It is a precursor to almost all fluorine compounds, including pharmaceuticals such as fluoxetine (Prozac), diverse materials such as PTFE (Teflon), and elemental fluorine itself.

It is a colourless solution that is highly corrosive, capable of dissolving many materials, especially oxides.

Its well known ability to dissolve glass has been known since the 17th century, even before Carl Wilhelm Scheele prepared it in large quantities in 1771.[2]

Because of its high reactivity toward glass and moderate reactivity toward many metals, hydrofluoric acid is usually stored in plastic containers (although PTFE is slightly permeable to it).[3]

Hydrogen fluoride gas is an acute poison that may immediately and permanently damage lungs and the corneas of the eyes. Aqueous hydrofluoric acid is a contact-poison with the potential for deep, initially painless burns and ensuing tissue death.

By interfering with body calcium metabolism, the concentrated acid may also cause systemic toxicity and eventual cardiac arrest and fatality, after contact with as little as 160 cm2 (25 square inches) of skin.

This is from Wikipedia. I also looked up the MSDS. This is nasty stuff.


:bolt:
 
Re: Hydrofluroic acid to clean wheels?!?

Extremely dangerous and toxic substance. Stay away.
 
Re: Hydrofluroic acid to clean wheels?!?

Am I out of the loop here or is it indeed a bad idea?

Many popular wheel cleaners contain hydrofluoric acid or its cousin, ammonium bifluoride. Meg's Wheel Brightener and Poorboy's Spray & Rinse, to name a couple that are sold here. It's a common pre-treat at tunnel washes and in truck cleaning.

I'm with others that have chimed in that I choose not to use products that contain these compounds. The problem with these fluoride compounds is they require specific neutralization products, as opposed to "regular" acids for which any base will do. There are other acid-based wheel cleaners that use oxalic acid, etc., which do have their place in removing stubborn residues.
 
It's a bad idea to use it generally IMHO, bit it's a good idea to have Wheel Bright around in case you run into a spot something that just won't respond to anything else. Basically it has it's place as a last resort product.

My guess is those who use it frequently are using it because it's powerful, quick, and fairly cheap. But, it's acid - so it's corrosive. It may discolor painted plastic, stain bare aluminum, and etch paints if left to dry or in contact for too long.

So, as long as it's a last resort - your already using it on something that is probably less than perfect. The key is to only use it on that item or area - and not get it on areas that don't require it.

I can't imagine what would be on wheel wells that would need HF acid to remove.
 
Re: Hydrofluroic acid to clean wheels?!?

Works great but too aggressive and too dangerous. Ok for emergency use when all else fails. If someone uses it routinely, they can't really justify the use of the 'detailer' term.
 
Re: Hydrofluroic acid to clean wheels?!?

I just started using a wheel cleaner that has butoxy ethanol and potassium hydroxide. I know nothing about these chemicals. Are they harsh? The directions state let dwell 20 sec then rinse. I found I need to agitate most of the time but it seems like a strong cleaner. Its not sold at AG but a MSDS is available if someone knowledgeable can PM me please. Thanks
 
Re: Hydrofluroic acid to clean wheels?!?

Just to add to what everyone has said...STAY AWAY. This stuff is just plain nasty.

Even in a diluted state, a lot of human damage can still occur.

I'm sure "PiPUK" will be chiming in this one with his wealth of facts.

Bill
 
Re: Hydrofluroic acid to clean wheels?!?

I just started using a wheel cleaner that has butoxy ethanol and potassium hydroxide. I know nothing about these chemicals. Are they harsh? The directions state let dwell 20 sec then rinse. I found I need to agitate most of the time but it seems like a strong cleaner. Its not sold at AG but a MSDS is available if someone knowledgeable can PM me please. Thanks

If it contains potassium hydroxide it is still very harsh, but on the other side of the pH scale (like 13+), it would still be considered corrosive. A tiny bit less nasty than sodium hydroxide. Only real benefit of potassium hydroxide is that it doesn't tend to 'yellow' the way sodium hydroxide can. Still many better options out there. However, one well liked super degreaser does contain potassium hydroxide.

If you want a cost effective wheel cleaner that is a bit safer (still a touch risky for some material finishes) look for something with a metasilicate derivative.
 
Re: Hydrofluroic acid to clean wheels?!?

Was this the stuff Heisenberg was using to melt down people who crossed him, Jesse threw Crazy 8 in the Bathtub, and it ate through bathtub, floor, etc? LOL
 
Re: Hydrofluroic acid to clean wheels?!?

Was this the stuff Heisenberg was using to melt down people who crossed him, Jesse threw Crazy 8 in the Bathtub, and it ate through bathtub, floor, etc? LOL

Chemical disincorporation indeed.
 
I have no input on this stuff as a wheel cleaner but I am a first responder with my company as an add on job basically to my main duties. In the lab they use this stuff pure. And in that a form a single drop on your skin can ruin your day. The trouble is it doesn't burn your skin. It absorbs into the spot at attacks your bones. A small drop could go unnoticed and then become extremely painful as the day goes on. So please don't use this stuff lol. We are trained as first responders on how to start initial treatment on contacts with this it's just no good to use.
 
Re: Hydrofluroic acid to clean wheels?!?

Down here in Florida we have tons of ant hills. Whenever working around an area where there's a lot of ants I'll use it on the ground... works great for pesky insects.
 
Re: Hydrofluroic acid to clean wheels?!?

Down here in Florida we have tons of ant hills. Whenever working around an area where there's a lot of ants I'll use it on the ground... works great for pesky insects.
No environmental or health issues, then, with HF-acid seeping into the ground-water/water-table...
down there in Florida?

Bob
 
Re: Hydrofluroic acid to clean wheels?!?

I just started using a wheel cleaner that has butoxy ethanol and potassium hydroxide. I know nothing about these chemicals. Are they harsh? The directions state let dwell 20 sec then rinse. I found I need to agitate most of the time but it seems like a strong cleaner. Its not sold at AG but a MSDS is available if someone knowledgeable can PM me please. Thanks

Potassium hydroxide is caustic potash and, as stated by Audios S6, it is pretty nasty. Sodium and potassium hydroxides are effectively the alkaline equivalents of hydrofluoric and hydrochloric acid. Superb cleaners and common in many non-acid wheel cleaner. If you search on the topic, you will see that I think that caustics are best kept out of routine detailing as they are too aggressive (they will damage many more sensitive finishes). Butoxy ethanol is a solvent which people have expressed concern about with paint work. However, most of the time it will be used at low levels and it is then diluted to a point where the level is miniscule. I have never observed any harm which I would attribute to the butoxy ethanol, most of the harm I see with products containing it will be down to other ingredients (the caustics are much much more likely to do harm).
 
Re: Hydrofluroic acid to clean wheels?!?

My experience with Hydrofluoric Acid.

A few years back I was working in a historic part of Milwaukee. The building I was working was adjacent to a Muni parking lot. The owner of the building I was working in decided to hire a building restoration firm to spray diluted Hydrofluoric Acid (HF) on the building's exterior to clean (etch) the brick and mortar. Of course, they did this on some really windy days and hundreds of cars were hit with the spray.

The HF they were using, while diluted, was literally melting some glass windshields and made pits in others. After a few calls to the environmental agencies and local TV stations they decided to finish the restoration using a sand blaster. They followed this up by spraying some kind of silicone sealer on the brick and morter. This, the sand and silicone, also, wound up on the cars.

Unfortunately, there were lots of people who drove by the building while they were spraying and even more who parked in the muni lot who never knew what had happened to their vehicles.

My glass became severely pitted, my paint developed a white oxidation so deep that it couldn't be buffed off and all the exposed metal parts corroded. The insurance company had to replace all my glass, exposed metal and repaint the car.

I subsequently found that HF is among the strongest and most corrosive acids known and is assigned a class 8 hazardous waste. For reference, nuclear waste is a class 9 hazardous waste. Several people have died from HF contact. It is nothing I'd want in proximity to me or my vehicles. Hydrofluoric acid poisoning: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia
 
Re: Hydrofluroic acid to clean wheels?!?

I use the Meguiar's Wheel Brightener with great results, I use it 3:1.
The wheels have to be really dirty before I use it, my wheels are always well protected to in most cases just soap and water is all I need for my wheels, not so for some of my customers wheels though, baked on brake dust can take a long time to clean but not with the WB, really dissolves it quickly.

Just use common sense, not a bad idea to wear eye protection, a mask, gloves, that goes for a lot of wheel cleaners, even some of the all purpose cleaners can be harmful to you.
 
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