If prep is 90% and wax is 10%...

[ron231]

I hear it all the time on here and autopia and pretty much understand why but I am kinda confused here...

If prep is 90% and wax only 10% why is there a huge market for high end waxes but none for high end prep? The highest end prep products I have seen are from pinnacle, $20 a bottle. Nowhere near that $7000 zymol royale I talked about in the ultra high end wax thread.

Look at swissol, the cheapest wax they make is $90, ever see a $90 swirl remover?



Now one could argue, that most prep products do relatively the same thing so why have higher end ones? Well I could say the same about wax and sealant, the purpose of them is to cap the pores of the paint, and if they all cap the pores then there you go.


Now I'm not saying all waxes are equal, theyre not, but why dont I see this same competition with prep products, and why no high end ultra fine polishes?

 

[supercharged]

I hear it all the time on here and autopia and pretty much understand why but I am kinda confused here...

If prep is 90% and wax only 10% why is there a huge market for high end waxes but none for high end prep? The highest end prep products I have seen are from pinnacle, $20 a bottle. Nowhere near that $7000 zymol royale I talked about in the ultra high end wax thread.

Look at swissol, the cheapest wax they make is $90, ever see a $90 swirl remover?



Now one could argue, that most prep products do relatively the same thing so why have higher end ones? Well I could say the same about wax and sealant, the purpose of them is to cap the pores of the paint, and if they all cap the pores then there you go.


Now I'm not saying all waxes are equal, theyre not, but why dont I see this same competition with prep products, and why no high end ultra fine polishes?

Are you willing to pay $7000 for a swirl remover/paint prep lotion? $90?

 

[justin_murphy]

I see your point. But how long does it take to correctly prep a vehicle to warrant the 7000.00 wax?

Paul Dalton in the UK takes up to 20 hours to perfect the paint. I've spent 14 hours over 2 days as well on some.

He gets about 150.00 per hour and I get 50.00. That's 3000.00 for him and 700.00 for me. Prep is 90% labor and 10% product. Sorta like a 5000.00 paint job. The paint and supplies only cost a fraction of the bill. The rest is labor.

The main thing here to is marketing. Would you pay 75000.00 for Honda? You would for an Acura though!

 

[ScottB]

Well .... lets just say that my new Ferrari 430 Spyder was delivered to me last week. In the week I drove it by all those previous girlfriends who said I would never make it, and now its time for its first wash. Sure, I can use some special towels and soaps but at the end I am looking for the flashiest of waxes to truly make the car pop. I dropped six figures on the car , I am now looking for something unique to match its character and I can obviously afford it !

Prep is about 90% of the difference on older cars, and on rentals and other unkept rides. That said, collectors cars and speciality and limited car may never see true prep. Maybe a glaze and wax or sealant. Now I dont know that it justifies the cost, but everything in a product has a cost also. Thus why Menzerna polish with diminishing abrasives is much more expensive than Meguiars three step.

 

[BILL]

I hear it all the time on here and autopia and pretty much understand why but I am kinda confused here...

If prep is 90% and wax only 10% why is there a huge market for high end waxes but none for high end prep? The highest end prep products I have seen are from pinnacle, $20 a bottle. Nowhere near that $7000 zymol royale I talked about in the ultra high end wax thread.

if your going to knock your self out prepping and getting your ride to be the most perfect you can get it before any wax or sealer, then reason i surmise for the high end waxs is because thats the final phase....you want the very best topper.for all your hard work




Look at swissol, the cheapest wax they make is $90, ever see a $90 swirl remover?

a swirl remover is just that,a swirl remover....just different grades at the same price where a wax or sealer is the icing......



Now one could argue, that most prep products do relatively the same thing so why have higher end ones? Well I could say the same about wax and sealant, the purpose of them is to cap the pores of the paint, and if they all cap the pores then there you go.

different looks, application, durability, gloss, pop, etc.....


Now I'm not saying all waxes are equal, theyre not, but why dont I see this same competition with prep products, and why no high end ultra fine polishes?

i really cant see a $90.00 polish.....what would make it so different than the $15.00 product....smell?? grade??

 

[ScottB]

5.99

59.99

 

[MikeyC]

Now I dont know that it justifies the cost, but everything in a product has a cost also.

:iagree:

Ingredients and manufacturing methods are a factor (at least partially). I've heard from other detailing chemical manufacturers that a lot of the oils used in Zymol are expensive to obtain and expensive to process. Plus, my understanding is that a lot of the Zymol waxes are "hand crafted." Using human hands in place of machines makes a product a lot more expensive.

 

[Dieseldan]

Well .... lets just say that my new Ferrari 430 Spyder was delivered to me last week. In the week I drove it by all those previous girlfriends who said I would never make it, and now its time for its first wash. Sure, I can use some special towels and soaps but at the end I am looking for the flashiest of waxes to truly make the car pop. I dropped six figures on the car , I am now looking for something unique to match its character and I can obviously afford it !

Prep is about 90% of the difference on older cars, and on rentals and other unkept rides. That said, collectors cars and speciality and limited car may never see true prep. Maybe a glaze and wax or sealant. Now I dont know that it justifies the cost, but everything in a product has a cost also. Thus why Menzerna polish with diminishing abrasives is much more expensive than Meguiars three step.

u HAVE to post pics!!!

Love that car, btw do u own autogeek?

 

[ScottB]

u HAVE to post pics!!!

Love that car, btw do u own autogeek?

I was joking to make a point .... Capt Max lets me pretend I own Autogeek every February 31.

 

[Surfer]

I was joking to make a point .... Capt Max lets me pretend I own Autogeek every February 31.

I was waiting for somebody to ask you to post pics, I'd slap you if you got an Prancing Horse over a Raging Bull

 

[Grimm]

Don't forget, it's all in the marketing. A $7000 wax is going to be for the rich people that don't know what to spend their money on. All they know is that wax makes a car look shiny and that something expensive must be the best. Zymol just needs to start educating those people on the need for polish, and they can add a $10,000 polish to the wax and really make the cash.

 

[Dieseldan]

I was joking to make a point .... Capt Max lets me pretend I own Autogeek every February 31.

LOL good one

 

[BILL]

I was joking to make a point .... Capt Max lets me pretend I own Autogeek every February 31.

FEB 31?

 

[CalgaryDetail]

I see your point. But how long does it take to correctly prep a vehicle to warrant the 7000.00 wax?

Paul Dalton in the UK takes up to 20 hours to perfect the paint. I've spent 14 hours over 2 days as well on some.

He gets about 150.00 per hour and I get 50.00. That's 3000.00 for him and 700.00 for me. Prep is 90% labor and 10% product. Sorta like a 5000.00 paint job. The paint and supplies only cost a fraction of the bill. The rest is labor.

The main thing here to is marketing. Would you pay 75000.00 for Honda? You would for an Acura though!

Im not in the mood to get into weather a high end wax is worth it or not, however i do see some falicies so i thought i woulc clear them up. not to be a jerk or arogant but becasue im sure we are all looking for the truth

with how much paul dolton makes. Its 80ish pounds and hour (which is about the same as alot of trades over there). So with the conversion ya he makes 150 but you have to remeber life costs him in pounds not dollars. The cost of living is roughly the same as in N.A. So really doing a starigh conversion from pounds to dollars dosent work as you need to take into account the cost of living and the curecny used

 

[ron231]

Hey I didnt want this to turn into a debate about wax i just wanna know why theres a market for high end wax but not for high end prep products.

To be honest i think it would be harder to make abrasives that "diminish" and gradually get finer then it would be to make a wax that has lots of fancy oils in it.

So the question still stands, where are the high end prep products?

 

[BILL]

Hey I didnt want this to turn into a debate about wax i just wanna know why theres a market for high end wax but not for high end prep products.

To be honest i think it would be harder to make abrasives that "diminish" and gradually get finer then it would be to make a wax that has lots of fancy oils in it.

So the question still stands, where are the high end prep products?

This is high end to me and does it all for me $16.99

Optimum Polish is a swirl remover, finishing polish & paint cleaner in one for the optimum shine! swirl remover polish, fine grade polish, final

 

[Woob]

No idea how the entire Dalton affair got into this thread. Doesn't seem logical to me for Manufacturers to be making extremely expensive liquid preparation product like a polish. You won't be able to control the average amount of usage or technique involved with each user. Personally I'd think it's foolish to have a $90 Polish bottle in my hand that I can drop and that I might have varied usage on each car ounce-wise.

The reason why there are "High - End" waxes are because Concours, Fanatics, and Enthusiasts have usually vehicles that are special or special to them. Paint finishes are either brand new OEM or brand new sprayed vehicles, therefore your amount of prep work leads to just basic glazing or light abrasives followed by Unique Carnaubas. - This is a minority of the car care market.

If your looking for high end paint preparation, Menzerna 106FF, 085RD, Etc are Approx $35 to $50 a bottle just for 32 or 16 oz. (Prima/Optimum/Werkstatt Prime are all some of the top that I've seen boutique wise.) These products are all made for any Technician in the world to use in the industry so you have a majority audience that need a product that isn't super expensive.

So High End Waxes, small end of the market in paste form, easier to handle and manipulate chemically. High End Polishes, made for still a broad selection of the market that are accustomed to a standard price and amount, expecting a predictable versatile polish.

Even simpler: It's a big question of chemicals and economical viewpoint.