Infamous M105/M205 combo; why do I need M105?

F

flaco

New member
Joined
Jan 21, 2008
Messages
61
Reaction score
0
After reading lots of great feedback on Meguiar's M205, I picked up a bottle to try. I found M205 cuts and finishes well, dusts very little (almost zero) and wipes off easily. Clean up is easy. It works pretty well by hand, too. I even used it to clean up my headlights...worked great with a rotary and a foam pad. It has to be the user-friendliest polish I've ever used.

I also did alcohol wipe-downs to make sure that the polish wasn't filling in scratches. It wasn't.

My question is, why do I need M105? People boast about this 'great combo' for detailing..."use M105 and follow-up with M205", but I for one do not see the need for M105.

The M205 bottle says you can remove 2000 grit sand scratches with it (which I proved myself; they came out easily with a rotary and wool pad), so why bother with two polishes? I've yet to get into a detailing situation that represented something more difficult to remove than 2000 grit scratches. M205 cuts as well as I need it to. I bet it would take out 1500 grit with a rotary and wool pad too (I'll try that next).

Is the combo recommended just for non-rotary users who need extra HP since they're not using a rotary? Or rotary users that don't like wool pads? Do they need the extra cut in M105 that I don't need since I am using a rotary with wool?

I don't mean to come across negative...again, I am thrilled with M205. :xyxthumbs:
 
Nowhere on the bottle it states that it removes 2000 grit sand scratches as you say.
 
GMC83 said:
Nowhere on the bottle it states that it removes 2000 grit sand scratches as you say.
Click to expand...
LOL...you are correct! I just checked my bottle.

However, other advertisments for the product claim 2000 grit scratch removal (I thought I was going crazy there for a second, see below) and like I said previously, I verified that it actually does remove 2000 grit scratches. Other guys make similar claims on the net so I'm not the only one.

Regardless of what it says or doesn't say on the bottle, it still has awesome correction, and I believe my point is still valid. Using M105 appears unnecessary.

Meguiars M205 Ultra Finishing Polish

A companion to their M105 Ultra Cut Compound, Meguiars M205 Ultra Finishing Polish also incorporates Meguiar's new abrasive technology to quickly restore a mirror-like gloss without haze. The revolutionary abrasives in Meguiars M205 Ultra Finishing Polish are so advanced and milled so perfectly that the polish produces flawless results regardless of how it is applied. Ultra Finishing Polish permanently removes swirls and light defects leaving a deep gloss whether applied by hand, random orbital, dual-action or rotary machine polisher. The ultra fine, ultra hard abrasives used in Ultra Finishing Polish do not degrade in quality or cut during application. This polish can remove up to 2000 grit scratches, sanding marks, pig tails, acid rain damage, scuffing, and bird bomb etching effortlessly while finishing to a smooth, reflective finish. The “non-diminishing abrasives”, used in M205 Ultra Finishing Polish are fine tuned to remove microscopic amounts of paint quickly yet still leave the paint glossy, shiny, and haze-free.
 
Last edited:
If your happy with 205 and don't need 105 don't use it. You are answering your own question.
 
flaco said:
My question is, why do I need M105? People boast about this 'great combo' for detailing..."use M105 and follow-up with M205", but I for one do not see the need for M105.
Click to expand...


Remember, the target market for these products are body shops where they're sanding and buffing fresh paint. After sanding they will need an aggressive cutting compound to use with a wool cutting pad on a rotary buffer to cut-out the sanding marks.

M205 would not be aggressive enough for the initial cut.

Always evaluate the surface then match the right product to the job.


:)
 
I think alot of us here would be more then happy if we didn't need to use 105 everytime.As Mike always points out use the least aggressive product first and recheck your work.If it looks good and your happy with the results no need to go that extra step like using 105.
 
I agree, I have M105 just in case, our Neon always needs something stronger but our Yukon is easy as pie to work with!
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
Remember, the target market for these products are body shops where they're sanding and buffing fresh paint. After sanding they will need an aggressive cutting compound to use with a wool cutting pad on a rotary buffer to cut-out the sanding marks.

M205 would not be aggressive enough for the initial cut.

Always evaluate the surface then match the right product to the job.


:)
Click to expand...
I understand...and I'm not faulting Meguiar's at all regarding marketing/etc. I think they've marketed both products well.

I am specifically talking about detailers that push the combo and I don't understand why.

I still can't believe there'd every be a need for a detailer to use M105, unless he/she is wetsanding with 1500 grit...but hey, do whatever suits you. I don't need 105 in my arsenal. :)

And yes M205 would be aggressive enough if a body shop finished with 2000 grit. I did it easily on paint that was 2 years old, so I know fresh paint would be a snap. However, a lot of body shops finish with 1500 grit so I could see leaning towards 105 in that situation, even though I think I could remove 1500 grit scratches almost as easily with M205 (I still need to do that experiment).
 
M205 on a white compressor with the rotary is magic. I swear there is a genie living in my buffer when those three come together. I love the 105/205. I think what makes them unique is their non-diminishing abrasives.
 
ryandamartini said:
M205 on a white compressor with the rotary is magic. I swear there is a genie living in my buffer when those three come together. I love the 105/205. I think what makes them unique is their non-diminishing abrasives.
Click to expand...
OK so here I go beating the dead horse again...why do you need 105?
 
flaco said:
I understand...and I'm not faulting Meguiar's at all regarding marketing/etc. I think they've marketed both products well.

I am specifically talking about detailers that push the combo and I don't understand why.

I still can't believe there'd every be a need for a detailer to use M105, unless he/she is wetsanding with 1500 grit...but hey, do whatever suits you. I don't need 105 in my arsenal. :)

And yes M205 would be aggressive enough if a body shop finished with 2000 grit. I did it easily on paint that was 2 years old, so I know fresh paint would be a snap. However, a lot of body shops finish with 1500 grit so I could see leaning towards 105 in that situation, even though I think I could remove 1500 grit scratches almost as easily with M205 (I still need to do that experiment).
Click to expand...

There will always be a need for 105, but not on every car. 205 is not strong enough to remove some defects no matter what pad you use. Plus when you run into a hard clear coat with defects and 205 once again will not remove them you will need 105. Also just because paint is two years old does not mean it is going to be a breeze to work on.
 
ASPHALT ROCKET said:
There will always be a need for 105, but not on every car. 205 is not strong enough to remove some defects no matter what pad you use. Plus when you run into a hard clear coat with defects and 205 once again will not remove them you will need 105. Also just because paint is two years old does not mean it is going to be a breeze to work on.
Click to expand...
Excellent point. I have not tried M105 on very hard paint yet.

Cheers
 
Don't forget by using different pads you can "adjust" the cut M105 has and finish nicely, then 205 can come in a do a little clean up. Then if you are like me and feel 205 just doesn't have that little extra, follow it up with UF.
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
Remember, the target market for these products are body shops where they're sanding and buffing fresh paint. After sanding they will need an aggressive cutting compound to use with a wool cutting pad on a rotary buffer to cut-out the sanding marks.

M205 would not be aggressive enough for the initial cut.

Always evaluate the surface then match the right product to the job.


:)
Click to expand...

Then can it be done with 205 (just longer process)? or it can't be done at all using 205, and using 105 is a must?

Thanks, Mike.
 
But time is money :) Especially for those charging by the job. My car uses a very hard clearcoat after I repainted it. There is no way that I could get by simply with 205 for sanding out sanding scratches. It actually took 105 with a wool pad to remove 2000 grit sanding scratches. No way in hell 205 would have done it in a timely manner.
 
switerajaya said:
Then can it be done with 205 (just longer process)? or it can't be done at all using 205, and using 105 is a must?

Thanks, Mike.
Click to expand...

I didn't read all the way through this thread but I think I pointed out that M205 is designed to be a "finishing polish" for use after the heavy cutting and polish has been done by M105.

As such, that is as a "finishing polish" and the chemist knowing that used correctly, M105 will take a finish from 0 to about 90% of a show car finish, (0 = worst case scenario), then M205 only has to be aggressive enough to refine the results created by the M105, that is because M105 will create so close to an LSP ready finish... M205 doesn't need to be very aggressive and it's not...

So the answer to your question and to anyone wondering, the M105/M205 is a Tag Team system where M105 does the heavy lifting, or heavy cutting in this case and M205 finishes the job off...

Keep in mind that because M105, (and M205), are SMAT products, you can stop any time during the cutting process and move onto the polishing process, unlike a diminishing abrasive product you don't have to work M105 till the abrasives have broken down... you can just stop buffing when you're happy with the level of correction you have created...

I'm not sure as I haven't read either of these two articles since writing them but I think I cover this in one and maybe both... from my list of articles that can be found in my Signature Line,


The SMAT Pack - Everything you ever wanted to know about Meguiar's SMAT products...

The Aggressiveness Order of SMAT Products - This might surprise you!


Also even if you're just a weekend detailer working on your own cars... "products" are like "tools" and it's always nice to have more than one tool in your tool box.

Most anyone into detailing their own cars should have an aggressive product, a medium cut product and a finishing polish or two plus a couple of waxes or paint sealants...


:)
 
i bought the combo, but i know i wont use 105 a lot. I bought the 105 b/c i know i will have cars that will have defects that will be worse than what 205 can cut. So i might not use 105 on the entire car, more like on the bad spots, and use 205 on the entire car.
 
Try using just M205 on a Mercedes with a ceramic clearcoat. You'll be there all day! Even M105 takes multiple passes IME.
 
I don't know about the finer points of a base coat/clear coat car as I haven't done one yet, but I am using M105/M205 on a Mustang that was painted with lacquer a long time ago. I had read that the M105 works very quickly but I didn't realize just how quick that was. On the first panel I did, I thought I had burned the paint. There was what looked like curved ridges of material that was not removable by hand rubbing with M105. I gently rubbed them with 3000, went over it again with M105 and everything is fine. Apparently it was M105 that had dried on the surface? I now pay close attention and when the surface suddenly starts to shine I stop, and apply more material. No problems since and I am about 3/4 done with the machine polishing of the car. (Would have been done sooner but 95 to 100 degree days in a non AC shop).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top