LC CCS Pad Losing Firmness?

AustrianOak82

AustrianOak82

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I currently use the LC CCS 5.5 inch pads and 3 inch pads on my GG 6". I am having some issues with them that I wanted to get some feedback and find out if the issues are normal. I typically will run my GG at a speed of 4 or 4.5 for general polishing and compounding. I rarely have to go at the 5 or 6 level and that is typically on headlight restorations or scratch removal. I have found that after about one panel, the pad has lost almost all of it's firmness and becomes very dense. I use the pink pads on a variety of jobs and by the time I get done with a door panel, the little pressure that I do use pushes the pad almost completely flat. When I take it off the polisher to put it with the other laundry, I can very easily press it flat with just normal hand carrying pressure. It's like it loses all its firmness. I have encountered this with the white pads, as well yellow and orange. It is especially frustrating with the 3 inch pads, as I have to be very careful not to hit the corners with the backing plate since the pad is completely flat during the correction.

It concerns me that I cant get through a panel without losing the firmness of the pad. I would need that for the correction aspect of it. I have read that using high speeds will do this due to the science of the pad but I am running at 4 out of 6. Should I just try another brand of foam or what?
 
I am no expert on pads by any mean, but they are foam. As you add your liquid through your buffing the pad will absorb some each time. When you clean you pad if done on the fly you are just cleaning spent residue of the top surface to prevent gumming up the pad and create a "clean" surface for your next section. Any foam exposed to any liquid will soften up, also known as pad saturation. Hence the common saying Clean and change your pads often.

Most panels (i.e. doors, hood, roof) I will use 2-3 pads per panel. Which means either buying more pads, or doing a few panels clean and wash pads then wait till dried to do another few panels.

You could try using less product, which with some liquids actually works better, and will take longer to saturate the pad. However, you want to be careful not to dry buff where there is not proper lubrication. There is also microfiber pads which you could use.

Mike Phillips has a thread floating around on a general recommendation on the number of pads used to buff and polish a vehicle.

Hope this helps.
 
That makes sense. I will usually use about 3-4 pads per vehicle depending on how dirty they get or how saturated. 1 for the hood and roof and parts of the front and rear cover, 1 for each side, and 1 extra every now and then.

I guess it's frustrating because I can only do real correction for about 30 seconds before the pad loses all firmness. I have to constantly switch them and I only have about 5 of each grade.

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I'm no expert and relatively new to the detailing game but I've noticed the same thing with the 4 in LC CCS orange light cutting pad(on a PC 7424 XP). After so many uses, the firmness of the pad goes away. The pad does its job removing swirls and scratches and eventually needs to be replaced IMO. Same thing with the 5.5 LC flat orange pad. Can't have enough pads. Would love to hear from the guys who do this for a living.
 
AustrianOak82 said:
That makes sense. I will usually use about 3-4 pads per vehicle depending on how dirty they get or how saturated. 1 for the hood and roof and parts of the front and rear cover, 1 for each side, and 1 extra every now and then.

I guess it's frustrating because I can only do real correction for about 30 seconds before the pad loses all firmness. I have to constantly switch them and I only have about 5 of each grade.

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You definitely need more pads, I will use 2-3 alone on a hood and another 2-3 for the roof on a sedan. With those extended uses you will melt the foam be left with a collapsed pad, where the center gets soft due to heat build up.

The pads may be collapsed already and that's why you will only see a short period of correction.

IMO 5 pads of compounding and 5 polishing will do something like a Suzuki swift, but nothing much bigger.
 
I have collapsed a few pads, I started pulling them off the backing plate while I wipe down between doing different parts on a section. I worry it may cause the foam to separate foam hook and loop but I can fix that with 3M Spray adhesive. The pad and the Backing plate cool down a lot even in a minute or 2, if you do it all the time it makes a big difference. I got to look into a better backing plate that's vented to let it breath a bit.
 
TuxedoTaurus said:
You definitely need more pads, I will use 2-3 alone on a hood and another 2-3 for the roof on a sedan. With those extended uses you will melt the foam be left with a collapsed pad, where the center gets soft due to heat build up.

The pads may be collapsed already and that's why you will only see a short period of correction.

IMO 5 pads of compounding and 5 polishing will do something like a Suzuki swift, but nothing much bigger.
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Sorry, but this seems a little ridiculous. I've never heard of anyone using upwards of 20 pads on a single car. I'm not having a problem with the center sinking in, it's the entire pad. They should be able to go for longer than a minute before collapsing, especially at half speed. If this is the case, I need new pads and possibly microfiber.

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I use the CCS pads and I think it's mainly because the liquid is getting into the pad. I typically use 4-6 pads on a vehicle. 20 is ridiculous imop.
 
I mean getting upwards toward 20 pads maybe a little higher or more of an outlier but I wouldn't call it rediculous at all. If you think about it depending on the condition of the cat I'd you are doing a two step correction or definitely if it turns to 3 step correction you may go through quite few pads just trying to figure out what approach/combo works most effectively. And a panel might take a couple of test spots.
 
AustrianOak82 said:
Sorry, but this seems a little ridiculous. I've never heard of anyone using upwards of 20 pads on a single car. I'm not having a problem with the center sinking in, it's the entire pad. They should be able to go for longer than a minute before collapsing, especially at half speed. If this is the case, I need new pads and possibly microfiber.

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Here is the article Mike wrote that I was referring too.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...-how-many-pads-do-i-need-buff-out-my-car.html

You wont need 20 pads. When I am done with a pad I wash it and let it dry once half the car is done the first pad I used will be ready for reuse. If it dries slower I start polishing what I compounded. I have 6 comp and 6 polish pads to use. I just clean and reuse. To speed up washing you could invest in a pad washer or build one yourself (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/77389-diy-pad-washer.html
).

I may use a lot of pads, but I don't worry about loosing cut. Also I know I wont have to worry about heat build up or pad saturation.
 
Op, how much downward pressure are you using?

I've been able to get away with two pads per compounding, and polishing cycles. Sometimes three, but I've never used more than three, and this was on a trashed Yukon. I also clean my pads after every other section cycle for foam - each cycle with microfiber.

I've got seven cars on the same set of Lake Country Hydrotechs, which I've seen get a really bad rap in the durability department. No concaving, or "dishing" out. The foam has started to wear, but nothing unexpected. I've had great luck with their durability, and even more with their performance.

I've had the same set of green, blue, and red Hex Logic pads since 2013, with about 15 vehicles, and a bunch of testing on them....

Before I start with a new compound or polish, I use it with a yellow megs foam hand applicator, and see how much pressure I need to get the product working. Not to get it perfect, but working. From there I put it on my machine, and use the machine as an extension of my hand, with the understanding that the cutting pad, and power of the machine will get the most out of the product. I look for the "sweet spot" between pressure, and back plate rotation. This also might mean that I need to slow my arm speed, or move up in aggressiveness, but I never increase pressure, and my pads never get hot. At most they might get warm.

I started on a rotary, and very conscious of pressure. The first day, I felt the rotary way too fast, and wished I could get something just a bit slower, and the d/a accomplished this for me. Thus, I've transferred my rotary technique to the d/a.
 
I don't use much pressure at all, the machine doesn't slow at all or anything, just slight pressure. I really only use pressure on scratch removal. The pads have held up well, I've had this set for about a year, doing about 2 cars a week. I've only encountered the concave center on one pad and that was from running at speed 6 for too long. I clean the pads using the "on the fly" method with a terry towel after each panel.

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AustrianOak82 said:
I don't use much pressure at all, the machine doesn't slow at all or anything, just slight pressure. I really only use pressure on scratch removal. The pads have held up well, I've had this set for about a year, doing about 2 cars a week. I've only encountered the concave center on one pad and that was from running at speed 6 for too long. I clean the pads using the "on the fly" method with a terry towel after each panel.

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I'd love to see some pics of you get a chance.

I used the pink ccs pads as well. I did notice that one would get really mushy, really quickly, buy they always cut really well. I never had that happen with Orange, or White CCS.

I concaved one green ccs, but I beat the daylights out of it.

As someone mentioned, oversaturation could be a culprit. My pink ccs didn't get weird till I had some water leak from a seam onto the section I was buffing.
 
Pics wouldn't really show anything. They don't go flat or sink in the middle or anything. They look the same.

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AustrianOak82 said:
Pics wouldn't really show anything. They don't go flat or sink in the middle or anything. They look the same.

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Ah, I should have specified regarding the collapsed one. Trying to gather an informal photo database of pad failure.
 
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