Leather conditioner before coating?

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Chito

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After cleaning leather seats with 10:1 APC, do I apply leather conditioner before the leather coating/sealant? After cleaning with APC the leather is clean but seems "dry". Leather conditioners are supposed to "nourish" the leather.

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Chito said:
After cleaning leather seats with 10:1 APC, do I apply leather conditioner before the leather coating/sealant? After cleaning with APC the leather is clean but seems "dry". Leather conditioners are supposed to "nourish" the leather.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using AG Online
Click to expand...

+1 I was also wondering this as well. Hopefully someone will chime in soon
 
Chito said:
After cleaning leather seats with 10:1 APC, do I apply leather conditioner before the leather coating/sealant? After cleaning with APC the leather is clean but seems "dry". Leather conditioners are supposed to "nourish" the leather.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using AG Online
Click to expand...

You will want to apply leather conditioner first then the leather coating/sealent why because leather coating/sealent is more durable/last longer than condioner

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Conditioner will more than likely cause the coating to fail, if it even adheres at all.

If your seats are coated leather, you don't need conditioner at all. Almost every single modern vehicle is coated leather. The only exception I can think of is the Ford King Ranch.
 
Theoretically, the coating is supposed to seal the conditioner in the leather. Why will there be bonding problems?

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If the leather in question is in fact coated I would only apply the coating/sealant. The conditioner will provide no benefit, in theory.

If the leather does in fact feel dry it could be due to the APC that was used to clean it. I know it does a number on my hands, especially this time of year.
 
There is a common misconception about coated leather these days. NEW seats do not need a conditioner. Saying they don't need conditioning is like the dealership applying the never wax again coating.

Applying a conditioner to brand new seats will merely dry on top, adding a slick feel (such as a spray wax or QD - to emulate soft leather) and that's about it. Maybe a bit if penetration, not much.

Older seats, high end nappa leather, etc do need some care after 3-5 years. Take a look and in some areas the seats have already cracked; now imagine the plastic coating on the leather. Adding a condition will not fix the coating, but it will be able to actually penetrate into the leather and restore the softness to it, if it has dried out or gone hard. Colour will be restored as well.

Now which product you pick is really dependant on they leather and the condition. Old leather (not vinyl) in a Cadillac or Bentley, or say an old suitcase (uncoated and OLD) will need something strong. SV elephant fat (it's actually pure beeswax) is a good choice. Something 15 years and younger will need an oil. Leatherique is a great start for pure neglect. My polish Angel Charisma is similar to leatherique, but made more for regular bi annual use (maintenance) so good for the 5-10 year range. Anything under the 4-5 year mark doesn't really need too much. Once or twice a year wipe down with the cream of your choice (too many to name) and you will be all set.
 
Andr3wilson said:
There is a common misconception about coated leather these days. NEW seats do not need a conditioner. Saying they don't need conditioning is like the dealership applying the never wax again coating.

Applying a conditioner to brand new seats will merely dry on top, adding a slick feel (such as a spray wax or QD - to emulate soft leather) and that's about it. Maybe a bit if penetration, not much.

Older seats, high end nappa leather, etc do need some care after 3-5 years. Take a look and in some areas the seats have already cracked; now imagine the plastic coating on the leather. Adding a condition will not fix the coating, but it will be able to actually penetrate into the leather and restore the softness to it, if it has dried out or gone hard. Colour will be restored as well.

Now which product you pick is really dependant on they leather and the condition. Old leather (not vinyl) in a Cadillac or Bentley, or say an old suitcase (uncoated and OLD) will need something strong. SV elephant fat (it's actually pure beeswax) is a good choice. Something 15 years and younger will need an oil. Leatherique is a great start for pure neglect. My polish Angel Charisma is similar to leatherique, but made more for regular bi annual use (maintenance) so good for the 5-10 year range. Anything under the 4-5 year mark doesn't really need too much. Once or twice a year wipe down with the cream of your choice (too many to name) and you will be all set.
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Hey there Andre,
Soooo glad you decided to show your knowledge of leather here 'cause, I need some answers as well - and I do believe my questions are relevant and on topic.
You mentioned 10-15 yr. old leather. A few of the cars I see on a regular basis are of that vintage and older and have varying quality leather appointments.
2 Mercedes: '98 & '02
Rolls: '82 Silver Spur
BMW '99 740i

Each of them has a different kind/quality of leather and each responds differently to the same product. However, once a year, I deep clean at least the front seats of all of them with saddle soap to remove all the previous dressing applications, dirt, etc., and it does a beautiful job. Here's the strange part... After the saddle soap cleaning, all of them seemingly have the same look, feel, and supple-ness. Kind of matte in appearance, soft as Hell, and thirsty for ANYTHING that gets applied first. Obviously, these are not coated materials due to that last characteristic. Why then after applying conditioner followed by sealant/protectant do they become as different from one another as night and day?
I really hope you were able to follow my ramblings because this has bugged me for a while and I've never really been able to find an answer.
 
Coach Steve said:
Hey there Andre,
Soooo glad you decided to show your knowledge of leather here 'cause, I need some answers as well - and I do believe my questions are relevant and on topic.
You mentioned 10-15 yr. old leather. A few of the cars I see on a regular basis are of that vintage and older and have varying quality leather appointments.
2 Mercedes: '98 & '02
Rolls: '82 Silver Spur
BMW '99 740i

Each of them has a different kind/quality of leather and each responds differently to the same product. However, once a year, I deep clean at least the front seats of all of them with saddle soap to remove all the previous dressing applications, dirt, etc., and it does a beautiful job. Here's the strange part... After the saddle soap cleaning, all of them seemingly have the same look, feel, and supple-ness. Kind of matte in appearance, soft as Hell, and thirsty for ANYTHING that gets applied first. Obviously, these are not coated materials due to that last characteristic. Why then after applying conditioner followed by sealant/protectant do they become as different from one another as night and day?
I really hope you were able to follow my ramblings because this has bugged me for a while and I've never really been able to find an answer.
Click to expand...

I follow what you are saying. To be honest I cannot give you a specific answer to why each leather is reacting different, but I can generalize it.

Think if how you can get three different results on three different types of paint. Each paint can be the same (in system and concept), but completely different in how they are manufactured and applied.

Leather in the 3-4 cars you list is completely different in the way it was grown (cow and breed - although most leather comes from slaughter and dairy cows), harvested, tanned, dried, polished, and sealed (if it is coated). When it comes to cleaning (think washing a car), they will all come clean the same way and you will see a dramatic difference in both look and feel - you are just removing dirt and grime. The conditioning phases are where you will get differing results (think correcting and waxing) with the same product. The age, condition, grain, tan of the leather will really change how your product is reacting and working.

I have some Conolly conditioner, some cheaper MB leather seats it is absolutely wonderful on, my moms sofa - YIKES!

My recommendation, have an assortment of conditioners and test on small test spots to see what they do, then choose from there.

For gentle cream conditioners these are great:
- Raceglaze
- Zaino Leather
- Conolly
- Black Label Leather Conditioner (haven't tried this yet, but seems nice)

For more aggressive conditioner.
- Leatherique
- Polish Angel Charisma
- SV Bees Wax
 
Andr3wilson said:
I follow what you are saying. To be honest I cannot give you a specific answer to why each leather is reacting different, but I can generalize it.

Think if how you can get three different results on three different types of paint. Each paint can be the same (in system and concept), but completely different in how they are manufactured and applied.

Leather in the 3-4 cars you list is completely different in the way it was grown (cow and breed - although most leather comes from slaughter and dairy cows), harvested, tanned, dried, polished, and sealed (if it is coated). When it comes to cleaning (think washing a car), they will all come clean the same way and you will see a dramatic difference in both look and feel - you are just removing dirt and grime. The conditioning phases are where you will get differing results (think correcting and waxing) with the same product. The age, condition, grain, tan of the leather will really change how your product is reacting and working.

I have some Conolly conditioner, some cheaper MB leather seats it is absolutely wonderful on, my moms sofa - YIKES!

My recommendation, have an assortment of conditioners and test on small test spots to see what they do, then choose from there.

For gentle cream conditioners these are great:
- Raceglaze
- Zaino Leather
- Conolly
- Black Label Leather Conditioner (haven't tried this yet, but seems nice)

For more aggressive conditioner.
- Leatherique
- Polish Angel Charisma
- SV Bees Wax
Click to expand...
Thanks for taking the time to write such an in-depth reply. Super analogy! I guess I kinda sorta knew that about the leather and the way they're processed being the catalyst in the way they respond to the products used on them, I just never really thought about it that way. Thanks also for the breakdown of the various leather care products and where they reside on the scale.

One more question regarding aged, neglected leather...
I realize you can't compare the type of leather used for textiles and the leathers used for auto upholstery but bear with me for a minute while I paint a picture using this analogy.
I have a leather bomber jacket that belonged to my father. I'll go years sometimes between wearings and when those times happen that I pull it out of the closet, it's dry, hard, lack-luster.... you know what I'm describing. I can rub it down with saddle soap followed by lanolin and/or leather cream and it's soft and supple and rich looking in no time.
Now, Using that scenario and the images I painted for you, replace the jacket with a car seat. Is it possible to "bring back", for lack of a better term, leather upholstery that has been that badly neglected? What about leather that's showing cracks? I often run into a situation where the leather (almost always the driver's seat) is in that kind of shape and all I've ever been able to do is moisturize/condition the crap out of it and offer an explanation to the owner that the seat is beyond my expertise - which it is. However, if there's a way to rejuvenate those kinds of seats, it would be great to learn how so as to add that knowledge and ability to my arsenal.

My apologies to the OP for the blatant hijack of the thread.

Regards,
Steve
 
Chito said:
Theoretically, the coating is supposed to seal the conditioner in the leather. Why will there be bonding problems?

Sent from my GT-I9505 using AG Online
Click to expand...

Well, a coating is essentially and impermeable membrane, if you apply it to an item that you've just added oils to revitalize the look and feel, the coating will sit on to of the oils and not bond.
 
Coach Steve said:
Thanks for taking the time to write such an in-depth reply. Super analogy! I guess I kinda sorta knew that about the leather and the way they're processed being the catalyst in the way they respond to the products used on them, I just never really thought about it that way. Thanks also for the breakdown of the various leather care products and where they reside on the scale.

One more question regarding aged, neglected leather...
I realize you can't compare the type of leather used for textiles and the leathers used for auto upholstery but bear with me for a minute while I paint a picture using this analogy.
I have a leather bomber jacket that belonged to my father. I'll go years sometimes between wearings and when those times happen that I pull it out of the closet, it's dry, hard, lack-luster.... you know what I'm describing. I can rub it down with saddle soap followed by lanolin and/or leather cream and it's soft and supple and rich looking in no time.
Now, Using that scenario and the images I painted for you, replace the jacket with a car seat. Is it possible to "bring back", for lack of a better term, leather upholstery that has been that badly neglected? What about leather that's showing cracks? I often run into a situation where the leather (almost always the driver's seat) is in that kind of shape and all I've ever been able to do is moisturize/condition the crap out of it and offer an explanation to the owner that the seat is beyond my expertise - which it is. However, if there's a way to rejuvenate those kinds of seats, it would be great to learn how so as to add that knowledge and ability to my arsenal.

My apologies to the OP for the blatant hijack of the thread.

Regards,
Steve
Click to expand...

Well, again lets use the analogy to paint. If a guy comes with scratches to the substrate, and failed CC, theres only so much you can do. You can use a multitude of products to get it maybe 50% better, but at the end of the day a respray is in order to restore it.

Now back to leather, if you get really worn and cracked leather, there is only so much you can actually do about it. A conditioner may bring it back 50%, but if its worn and torn then reupholstering is the only way to restore it like new. One trick you may want to use if you dont have a steamer is the hot towel trick. Get a bowl of boiling water and soak your towels in it, then carefully pull them out and place on the seats until they cool. This will heat and effectively "steam" the leather reducing any stretch marks and wrinkles.

This trick and conditioning is really the limit to what you can do with regards to reviving seats without re-dying or reupholstering.

:)
 
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