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I have read a few threads on in but wanted opinions on two options. I am planning on doing 3 8 foot t12's. At Home Depot or Lowes I can get either a 8' t12 base that accepts 75 watt tubes. They sell the tubes in the 6500k and 4100k or I can get a base that takes t12 110 watt tubes but they only have them in 4100k. I would like the brighter light, I am just concerned that maybe the 4100k will cause the colors to be less accurate.

Preferably I would like 5k bulbs but they don't carry those. Any opinions on the better Kelvins?

Thank you
 
5000K is closest to natural daylight. 6500K has a blue tint to it which IMO can throw colors off. 4100K is not far off from the 5000K but not natural uncolored light. I know HD carries 5000K bulbs in 4' as I've converted all my garage lighting to 5000K
 
4100k is like a standard headlight on a car or a bulb in a lamp in color
6500k is going to be like a LED in color

Do the fixtures fit 2 bulbs side by side? If so why not get both?
 
i have 12 4' 5000K Philips T8s overhead and think they are perfect for detailing. perfectly white light.
 
T-12s are really inefficient and on their way to oblivion.

I've got the 4' dual T-8s fixtures...
with electronic ballists/@ 0-degree instant start.

Home Depot sells a variety of T-8 lamps:
I like the 32W; 4100 Color Temp.; 78 CRI.

Note:
Some people will even go for the T-5s<<<($$$$)


Bob
 
Thanks for the responses.

I was thinking T12 because of the 110 watts. I am not so worried about efficiency as I am total brightness and color. Since it's my garage they won't be on as much as if it was a shop. I was thinking 8 foot just out of ease of hanging them and having a solid light running the length of the car. But I can look a little more.

Between a 6500k and a 4100k which would be the best? I am thinking 4100. I can prob get 5000k 8 foot but I think I would have to order it online.
 
In my experience, the T12 don't last as long as the more efficient ones.

You could always butt 2 4' lamps together (they're designed to do this) and you'd only have a few inch gap of light, which I doubt would make a noticeable difference.

I'd get the electronic ballast that Bob mentioned, they'll be standard for transformers soon enough. The instant light from is great if your working in a colder garage, or if they get cold. Plus they don't humm like the old style.

I agree, 4100 would be better than 6500.
 
In my experience, the T12 don't last as long as the more efficient ones.

You could always butt 2 4' lamps together (they're designed to do this) and you'd only have a few inch gap of light, which I doubt would make a noticeable difference.

I'd get the electronic ballast that Bob mentioned, they'll be standard for transformers soon enough. The instant light from is great if your working in a colder garage, or if they get cold. Plus they don't humm like the old style.

I agree, 4100 would be better than 6500.


Ok, thanks. I started re researching. I am not too worried about cold. I am in southern cal, but no humming would be nice.

Thanks again
 
dude, get what i have. trust me. forget about t12 forever lol

EDIT: i just flipped them on to take a couple pics.
 
Good info I am looking for new lighting in my garage. It will be a good winter project for my I the I will go with four foot 5000k. I just need figure out how many and how far apart.
 
It's the CRI that you're looking at as far as accuracy of color. FWIW the 6500 bulbs are not brighter, just headed more towards blue, (although they do make MUCH bluer bulbs). Want to really see how many different spectrums are out there check out aquarium lighting. You can get them from 4100°K to 12,000°K all the way to 20,000°K!!!! :D

If you really want what is 'perceived' as the best possible lighting situation, you'd go for "full spectrum" lighting. Below that would be "daylight". Both have fairly high CRI ratings, just that full spectrum is up at 98, which is AWESOME! I've used them for years in a freshwater plant aquarium with excellent results.

BTW, as Bob (I think it was Bob) said, mixing the two (4100/6500) will give you pretty darned good light.

Here's an article from Lighting Research Center. (I've highlighted areas to focus on.)

Full-spectrum light sources and color perception. Full-spectrum light sources will probably provide excellent color rendering. Color rendering index (CRI) values for full-spectrum lighting sources are typically greater than 90. Color is a human perception constructed from the combination of the spectral power distribution (SPD) of the light source, the spectral reflectance of the materials being illuminated, and the tri-chromatic nature of the human visual system. If there are gaps or large variations in the SPD of a light source, there is a potential for confusion between the apparent colors of objects. Since full-spectrum light sources usually provide radiant power throughout the visible spectrum, subtle differences in the spectral reflectance characteristics of different objects are discernable. So, when color identification is part of the visual task, such as for graphic arts, museums and color printing applications, full-spectrum light sources will ensure good color discrimination.

Full-spectrum light sources and visual performance. Full-spectrum light sources will not provide better visual performance than other light sources under most circumstances. Visual performance is the speed and accuracy of processing achromatic information (e.g., black print on white paper) by the human visual system. At the relatively high light levels typically found in schools and offices, visual performance is essentially unaffected by the spectral power distribution of the light source, so full-spectrum light sources are, lumen for lumen, no better than any other light source.

Lighting produced by full-spectrum lamps may be, however, perceived as providing brighter architectural spaces than other lamps (Boyce, 2002; Berman, 1990). Three factors may contribute to this effect. First, full-spectrum light sources typically have a high correlated color temperature (CCT) of 5000K - 7500K. Lamps with higher CCT values produce greater brightness perception than lamps with lower CCT of the same luminance. Second, most full-spectrum light sources have high color rendering properties, meaning that surface colors will appear more saturated. Greater saturation will also give the impression of greater brightness (Boyce, 1977). Third, the ultraviolet (UV) radiation produced by some full-spectrum fluorescent lamps has a fluorescing, brightening effect on textiles and paper that have been treated with whitening agents. These combined effects on brightness perception may indeed have positive impact on building occupants, but greater perceived brightness can also be a liability, depending upon the expectations of the space's occupants (Veitch and McColl, 2001).
 
The Philips T8, 48", 32 watt, 5000K bulbs from HD have a CRI of 82.

Bob--what is it you like about the 4100K as perhaps I'm missing something??
 
Bob--what is it you like about the 4100K as perhaps I'm missing something??
•Every person's interpretation of illumination differs.

•I happen to find that 4100K gives off what I judge to be:
a truer, cooler-white...a more energetic-feel for the garage.

When I go to the more daylight end of the K-spectrum (5000-6500K) I interpret that there is too much of a "blueness" being emitted...has an aggravating feel.

•However:
If you personally judge that the 5000K best provides for your needs in the garage, then that's what you should go with.


Bob
 
•Every person's interpretation of illumination differs.

•I happen to find that 4100K gives off what I judge to be:
a truer, cooler-white...a more energetic-feel for the garage.

When I go to the more daylight end of the K-spectrum (5000-6500K) I interpret that there is too much of a "blueness" being emitted...has an aggravating feel.

•However:
If you personally judge that the 5000K best provides for your needs in the garage, then that's what you should go with.


Bob

it's funny you describe light in the 4000s as cooler because it's technically warmer, as it has more "yellow". but ultimately exactly what you said in the beginning is what's happening - everyone is different. what you are saying is why they used to have warmer bulbs for around the house except in places like the kitchen and bathroom.

i think 6500 is obnoxious, btw. when i had old school magnetic ballast t12 fixtures in my garage, i bought some of them by accident, i forget what they were called but they had an obvious blue hue to the glass...a filter. worst. i had to return them immediately. it twisted the perception of the color of paint big time and mixing them with 5000k bulbs didn't help.
 
It's the CRI that you're looking at as far as accuracy of color. FWIW the 6500 bulbs are not brighter, just headed more towards blue, (although they do make MUCH bluer bulbs). Want to really see how many different spectrums are out there check out aquarium lighting. You can get them from 4100°K to 12,000°K all the way to 20,000°K!!!! :D

If you really want what is 'perceived' as the best possible lighting situation, you'd go for "full spectrum" lighting. Below that would be "daylight". Both have fairly high CRI ratings, just that full spectrum is up at 98, which is AWESOME! I've used them for years in a freshwater plant aquarium with excellent results.

BTW, as Bob (I think it was Bob) said, mixing the two (4100/6500) will give you pretty darned good light.

Here's an article from Lighting Research Center. (I've highlighted areas to focus on.)

Full-spectrum light sources and color perception. Full-spectrum light sources will probably provide excellent color rendering. Color rendering index (CRI) values for full-spectrum lighting sources are typically greater than 90. Color is a human perception constructed from the combination of the spectral power distribution (SPD) of the light source, the spectral reflectance of the materials being illuminated, and the tri-chromatic nature of the human visual system. If there are gaps or large variations in the SPD of a light source, there is a potential for confusion between the apparent colors of objects. Since full-spectrum light sources usually provide radiant power throughout the visible spectrum, subtle differences in the spectral reflectance characteristics of different objects are discernable. So, when color identification is part of the visual task, such as for graphic arts, museums and color printing applications, full-spectrum light sources will ensure good color discrimination.

Full-spectrum light sources and visual performance. Full-spectrum light sources will not provide better visual performance than other light sources under most circumstances. Visual performance is the speed and accuracy of processing achromatic information (e.g., black print on white paper) by the human visual system. At the relatively high light levels typically found in schools and offices, visual performance is essentially unaffected by the spectral power distribution of the light source, so full-spectrum light sources are, lumen for lumen, no better than any other light source.

Lighting produced by full-spectrum lamps may be, however, perceived as providing brighter architectural spaces than other lamps (Boyce, 2002; Berman, 1990). Three factors may contribute to this effect. First, full-spectrum light sources typically have a high correlated color temperature (CCT) of 5000K - 7500K. Lamps with higher CCT values produce greater brightness perception than lamps with lower CCT of the same luminance. Second, most full-spectrum light sources have high color rendering properties, meaning that surface colors will appear more saturated. Greater saturation will also give the impression of greater brightness (Boyce, 1977). Third, the ultraviolet (UV) radiation produced by some full-spectrum fluorescent lamps has a fluorescing, brightening effect on textiles and paper that have been treated with whitening agents. These combined effects on brightness perception may indeed have positive impact on building occupants, but greater perceived brightness can also be a liability, depending upon the expectations of the space's occupants (Veitch and McColl, 2001).

Funny that was the same thing I was researching. I think I will go 8 foot t12 75 watt 5000k 90 CRI, they call them full spectrum but not sure 90 is considered full spectrum. They sell them at the Lowes by me so should be easy enough.
 
Funny that was the same thing I was researching. I think I will go 8 foot t12 75 watt 5000k 90 CRI, they call them full spectrum but not sure 90 is considered full spectrum. They sell them at the Lowes by me so should be easy enough.

Saw them at HD also -- believe they were $18.97 for two.
 
it's funny you describe light in the 4000s as cooler because it's technically warmer, as it has more "yellow". but ultimately exactly what you said in the beginning is what's happening - everyone is different. what you are saying is why they used to have warmer bulbs for around the house except in places like the kitchen and bathroom.

i think 6500 is obnoxious, btw. when i had old school magnetic ballast t12 fixtures in my garage, i bought some of them by accident, i forget what they were called but they had an obvious blue hue to the glass...a filter. worst. i had to return them immediately. it twisted the perception of the color of paint big time and mixing them with 5000k bulbs didn't help.

I agree that 6500°K is a bit "cool" (yet it's a hotter temp). It's strange for many to think that 'hotter' means 'cooler' but it may help when you think of it as a blue flame is hotter than a yellow flame.

With my background in home theater design and working with proper TV/projector calibration I used to have to explain that all the time to people. Heck, this week I was explaining it to SALES PEOPLE at Best Buy and Brandsmart. You go in there to check out the new 75" & 84" 4K sets and they are all set to their out of the box configuration that generally is on some sort of 'vivid' or 'game' mode with a color temp upwards of 11,000°K and color levels cranked up half way to the moon. It's so hard to look at it drives me NUTS!!!!!!!!!

I made them find me a remote for any set I was interested in then went in and started adjusting the picture. They were generally confused, and of course had no idea what all the settings were that I was adjusting. :laughing: Something cool though that I was looking into on the sets was that they had not one but TWO "isf Expert Mode" calibration settings. Both of which looked drastically better than anything else 'out of the box'. :eek: Better yet, both were infinitely adjustable in an attempt to end up with a truly magical picture. (Or a horrific picture given the wrong hands at the controls!)



Funny that was the same thing I was researching. I think I will go 8 foot t12 75 watt 5000k 90 CRI, they call them full spectrum but not sure 90 is considered full spectrum. They sell them at the Lowes by me so should be easy enough.

Might look into a site that sells aquarium lighting for "sunlight", "daylight", "tri-color" and "full spectrum" bulbs. Some are actually fairly affordable. :)
 
I agree that 6500°K is a bit "cool" (yet it's a hotter temp). It's strange for many to think that 'hotter' means 'cooler' but it may help when you think of it as a blue flame is hotter than a yellow flame.

With my background in home theater design and working with proper TV/projector calibration I used to have to explain that all the time to people. Heck, this week I was explaining it to SALES PEOPLE at Best Buy and Brandsmart. You go in there to check out the new 75" & 84" 4K sets and they are all set to their out of the box configuration that generally is on some sort of 'vivid' or 'game' mode with a color temp upwards of 11,000°K and color levels cranked up half way to the moon. It's so hard to look at it drives me NUTS!!!!!!!!!

I made them find me a remote for any set I was interested in then went in and started adjusting the picture. They were generally confused, and of course had no idea what all the settings were that I was adjusting. :laughing: Something cool though that I was looking into on the sets was that they had not one but TWO "isf Expert Mode" calibration settings. Both of which looked drastically better than anything else 'out of the box'. :eek: Better yet, both were infinitely adjustable in an attempt to end up with a truly magical picture. (Or a horrific picture given the wrong hands at the controls!)





Might look into a site that sells aquarium lighting for "sunlight", "daylight", "tri-color" and "full spectrum" bulbs. Some are actually fairly affordable. :)

ha! yep, TV calibration makes such a difference and you are right, so many people are completely unaware of it. even if you go to the forums and find a general consensus on your particular TV's settings, that will be better than nothing.
 
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