Long Term Wear of Ceramic Coatings?

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haze10

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Newbie, but just finish my first ceramic coating job. Three coats Gyeon Mohs followed by one coat of Skin. Came out great and very easy to apply for a beginner. One thing that I never see mentioned in the forums is the long term degradation of the ceramic and how it effects appearance. I mean, over a period of years, left untreated, the ceramic coating is going to wear off. But how does this process occur? Is it molecule by molecule until its there is nothing left? Does it ever chip or peel or discolor with age. Does the surface become blotchy, where there is some coating left and spots where no coating remains.

Also, what if in the future I want to try a newer and better product on my ceramic coated car and I want to remove the coating. Can it be chemically removed, or do you have to abrasively remove it. Or do you leave what remains and go over it. Is the first ceramic coating a marriage until death do you part?

Any comments appreciated.
 
First, the easy question. After a couple of years when you want to try something new, you will need to mechanically remove it with a polisher. The coatings are so durable, even after several years, I doubt you could effectively remove them with any sort of chemical. Besides, after a couple year you'll want to remove any imbedded grime and correct minor swirls and marring to restore the shine. After polishing a car after 2 years of a coating I was quite suprised at the change.

Now for your first question. In my experience, the change over time is really subtle. It isn't splotchy and the coating doesn't flake, crack, or crumble in any manner. Depending on how you've cared for the vehicle it may still look pretty good and water behavior may still be noticeable. However, it seems to lack that brilliant shine and certain "pop" from when the coating was new. Most of this is probably a result of years worth of life slowly working against the coating and the paint. Despite all this, it may still look better than many daily drivers you see on the road.
 
Thanks, that's re-assuring. That's what I was hoping for. Although, a chemical dissolver by the manufacturer which is safe would be a futuristic concept.
 
haze10 said:
Newbie, but just finish my first ceramic coating job. Three coats Gyeon Mohs followed by one coat of Skin. Came out great and very easy to apply for a beginner. One thing that I never see mentioned in the forums is the long term degradation of the ceramic and how it effects appearance. I mean, over a period of years, left untreated, the ceramic coating is going to wear off. But how does this process occur? Is it molecule by molecule until its there is nothing left? Does it ever chip or peel or discolor with age. Does the surface become blotchy, where there is some coating left and spots where no coating remains.

Also, what if in the future I want to try a newer and better product on my ceramic coated car and I want to remove the coating. Can it be chemically removed, or do you have to abrasively remove it. Or do you leave what remains and go over it. Is the first ceramic coating a marriage until death do you part?

Any comments appreciated.
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Coatings fade away like a wax or sealant. The layer is not thick enough for it to chip.

I documented my experience with Gyeon Syncro in this thread. Was a bit of a bummer how soon Skin faded away. Let us know how it holds up on yours.

2015 Impala with Gyeon Syncro (MOHS + Skin)

Coatings are not that tough. They are still a thin layer relatively speaking. An abrasive polish is going to remove it.

If you want to keep your coating refreshed then a decon wash is recommended to keep the surface as contaminant free as possible. Some like to use a maintenance product to "refresh" the coating.
 
There is chemicals that desolves a ceramic coating. The downside is that while you remove the coating you also damage the clearcoat. So a polishing is needed to be done to get the finish up on your clearcoat. And so the chemical stripping of the coating is redundant. Easier and way safer to polishing to begin with.

The Syncro you have used is a little mystery to me. As the Skin part is not so durable as the Mohs part. So the word from Mike Phillips as to be gently touch your paint when you washing is extremly important to get the most out of the Skin top coating. When it wears down to the point that a topper of a spray product is a benefit to the water behavior and self cleaning ability from the coating. I would start useing a topper at that point. Gyeon Cure is a good product for this. And you have Gyeon Bathe+ car soap and Gyeon Wet Coat. Or the more stout ones as Gyeon Booster and Gyeon CanCoat is an option if the coating holds up with very little contaminants. That's why Guz mentions the need to be staying ahead with decon washes every 6 months or so or when you see the water behavior goes down on some parts you revive it through cleaning it up thoroughly.
 
This is awesome. I’ve mentioned it before but nobody seemed interested. Degradation of anything starts after day 1. So, in my opinion/experience, you will be living with a coating that is degrading and degrading, significantly on lower panels - and less elsewhere for a very long time if you believe the manufacturers’ claims.

The industry responds by selling “toppers”, “maintenance products”, & special soaps for these coatings. They are just Band Aids to temporarily make the coating bead like new to justify the multi year claim of longevity.

In reality, if you simply skipped the whole coating & applied some quick and durable spray LSP product every other wash or so you would get better results; faster - for cheaper and less headaches.
 
The hope is with a coating is that it protects the paint better than a spray LSP by being harder. Minor scratches and marring hit the coating and not your clear coat thus saving the clear coat for years to come. When you polish off the coating you are not polishing off the super thin clear coat. Coatings are all about saving your clear coat and vehicle manufacturers keep cutting costs and use less and less clear coat than ever (Mazda I’m talking about you). If you plan on keeping your vehicle for a long time then coating it would be the thing to do, but if you trade quickly or lease I wouldn’t worry about saving the clear coat and use an old fashioned sealant or wax or one of the many SiO2 containing spray on products.
 
swanicyouth said:
This is awesome. I’ve mentioned it before but nobody seemed interested. Degradation of anything starts after day 1. So, in my opinion/experience, you will be living with a coating that is degrading and degrading, significantly on lower panels - and less elsewhere for a very long time if you believe the manufacturers’ claims.

The industry responds by selling “toppers”, “maintenance products”, & special soaps for these coatings. They are just Band Aids to temporarily make the coating bead like new to justify the multi year claim of longevity.

In reality, if you simply skipped the whole coating & applied some quick and durable spray LSP product every other wash or so you would get better results; faster - for cheaper and less headaches.
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I am going to have to counter with you that in my area we see the upper surfaces fail rather than the lower panels. So it is going to vary by environment.
 
Based on the info above, So what do you guys say about the thousands that detailers charge to apply the ceramic coatings?
 
mckobe said:
Based on the info above, So what do you guys say about the thousands that detailers charge to apply the ceramic coatings?
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A good, high-quality, pro-only ceramic coating will provide years of protection regardless of maintenance.

Maintenance ensures the longevity of the coating is pushed as far to its maximum as possible but as mentioned above, it is continually degrading.

If you live in a location where the environment causes more than typical clear coat/paint damage, a ceramic coating will go a long way to protecting the paint from some of the elements so you can care about and maintain it less.

Regardless of environment you live, regular maintenance will vastly outperform any protection you apply with the exception of PPF.

So all it comes down to is your commitment to maintaining the exterior of your vehicle using proper, scratch-free wash techniques and occasional decontamination:

Wash your car every 3 months plus - Ceramic
Wash your car every 3 weeks - synthetic paint sealant
Wash your car every 3 days - carnauba wax

Of course, this is a very simplified summary and environmental factors as well as care factors will create variables that alter this, but it aims to show that the level of protection is related to the level of care you intend to invest.

Ergo, If you wash your car every 3 days, garage it and live in a mild climate, away from the sea, little pollen and few birds etc. a ceramic coating is a waste of money.
 
As unscientific as it may sound, sometimes ya just 'know' that a coating has reached the end of its functional life.

After you've tried the typical rejuvenation routines and it's still 'not right' then it's time for it to go. Toppers/boosters are less effective and for shorter periods of time, bird bombs and other things take a bit more elbow grease to remove if they completely remove at all and it just becomes tougher to keep the car looking to ones personal level of 'goodness'.

I notice it when it takes more work/attention to maintain that level of 'goodness' that was more easily reached during the coatings prime. They may still bead nicely but sheeting drops off noticeably.

The same has held true for me on both vehicles that received regular maintenance as well as those that receive relatively none...the goodness just starts to fade away, obviously to varying degrees and expectations of 'goodness' but still essentially the same process. It just gets tired after a while...
 
haze10 said:
Newbie, but just finish my first ceramic coating job. Three coats Gyeon Mohs followed by one coat of Skin. Came out great and very easy to apply for a beginner. One thing that I never see mentioned in the forums is the long term degradation of the ceramic and how it effects appearance. I mean, over a period of years, left untreated, the ceramic coating is going to wear off. But how does this process occur? Is it molecule by molecule until its there is nothing left? Does it ever chip or peel or discolor with age. Does the surface become blotchy, where there is some coating left and spots where no coating remains.

Also, what if in the future I want to try a newer and better product on my ceramic coated car and I want to remove the coating. Can it be chemically removed, or do you have to abrasively remove it. Or do you leave what remains and go over it. Is the first ceramic coating a marriage until death do you part?
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Chances are you'll get the urge to re-do the coating before it actually fails. Great job with the Syncro Product. I love it and have used it many many times including on my wife's Lincoln. Durability is pretty high against all but the strongest APC's so do not use them on lower panels or wheels as it will damage the coating. Been there done that. Overall though skin is holding up well as is the underlying Mohs on my wife's car and it's been through 19k miles of Ohio winter and summer. IMO the hotter more sun intense west coat climates seem to, according to users/reviews here, degrade it more so than here.

I won't repeat the points already made but good luck, enjoy it and keep learning and practicing on other vehicles. It's a fun hobby.
 
To be fair, nobody has proved any coating (or any LSP for that matter) protects any vehicle paint surface from degradation in the long run.

Even if it sticks to your paint and sheds water well, that still is not proof of any coating (or LSP) extending the life of your paint. Are any aftermarket paint or new vehicle manufacturers recommending coatings as protectants?

M Phillips says find something you like and use it often (paraphrasing). That seems like very good advice and will like make a bigger impact IMHO for the long haul.
 
All dependant on the coating itself..
Some are low solids which are typically consumer coatings which can be polished off.

Some are high solids which are usually reserved as certified installer only and need to be wetsanded off..

This is not always the case though

Also regarding 2 part coatings..the topcoat (hydrophobics layer) depending on region will be dead in a year or two and will likely need relayered, while the base coat is perfectly intact
 
WristyManchego said:
A good, high-quality, pro-only ceramic coating will provide years of protection regardless of maintenance.

Maintenance ensures the longevity of the coating is pushed as far to its maximum as possible but as mentioned above, it is continually degrading.

If you live in a location where the environment causes more than typical clear coat/paint damage, a ceramic coating will go a long way to protecting the paint from some of the elements so you can care about and maintain it less.

Regardless of environment you live, regular maintenance will vastly outperform any protection you apply with the exception of PPF.

So all it comes down to is your commitment to maintaining the exterior of your vehicle using proper, scratch-free wash techniques and occasional decontamination:

Wash your car every 3 months plus - Ceramic
Wash your car every 3 weeks - synthetic paint sealant
Wash your car every 3 days - carnauba wax

Of course, this is a very simplified summary and environmental factors as well as care factors will create variables that alter this, but it aims to show that the level of protection is related to the level of care you intend to invest.

Ergo, If you wash your car every 3 days, garage it and live in a mild climate, away from the sea, little pollen and few birds etc. a ceramic coating is a waste of money.
Click to expand...

Help me understand the wash cycle that you mentioned. Are you saying that if I wash my car every 3 days, then carnauba wax is an ideal protection? In contrast, it I neglect car washes, then stick with ceramic coating? Pardon my ignorance since I'm new to this realm and have limited experience with carnauba wax, nothing else.
 
swanicyouth said:
To be fair, nobody has proved any coating (or any LSP for that matter) protects any vehicle paint surface from degradation in the long run.

Even if it sticks to your paint and sheds water well, that still is not proof of any coating (or LSP) extending the life of your paint. Are any aftermarket paint or new vehicle manufacturers recommending coatings as protectants?

M Phillips says find something you like and use it often (paraphrasing). That seems like very good advice and will like make a bigger impact IMHO for the long haul.
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Agreed.
Leave any coated vehicle to sit in the blazing Arizona, or Florida Sun, or other such similar climes worldwide 24/7. I'm sure heat and UV will as well take its toll no matter what. A garage kept vehicle will of course see less wear and tear than any that sits outside.

I agree with basically all that has been said so far.

That over time in most normal situations you'll note swirling occurring, a lessening of gloss.
 
mpulsiv said:
Help me understand the wash cycle that you mentioned. Are you saying that if I wash my car every 3 days, then carnauba wax is an ideal protection? In contrast, it I neglect car washes, then stick with ceramic coating? Pardon my ignorance since I'm new to this realm and have limited experience with carnauba wax, nothing else.
Click to expand...

Don't mind that post. Stick with your normal wash routine and you will be fine. Any LSP will perform at its max potential with regular washing.
 
mpulsiv said:
Help me understand the wash cycle that you mentioned. Are you saying that if I wash my car every 3 days, then carnauba wax is an ideal protection? In contrast, it I neglect car washes, then stick with ceramic coating? Pardon my ignorance since I'm new to this realm and have limited experience with carnauba wax, nothing else.
Click to expand...

The post I replied to was specifically about detailers who charge thousands being a waste of money.

If you wash your vehicle properly every 3 days, then a ceramic coating is unnecessary and a spray wax or carnauba wax would be a better choice.

In contrast, if your vehicle lives outside and rarely sees a shampoo, then a ceramic coating is a worthy investment to help protect the paint from degradation.
 
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