M105 Beginner Application

[T0RCH3D]

How's it goin guys, before I pull the trigger and place my big detailing order here I want to find out as much as I can about a few of the products on my list, mainly M105 and other LSPs. Just to give you a quick background on me and what I will be using these products for: Every since I had my first car I was always ridiculous about keeping the car clean. Always buying different OTC products and hand washing/waxing. Now that I sold my Mustang GT and upgraded to the 2003 Mustang Cobra SVT I figured I should really upgrade my product list. The car is in great condition, it just needs a full paint correction to help with minimal water spotting and swirls. In most cases, I will be mainly taking care of this car at first as well as some family and friends cars, but if all goes well I wouldn't mind detailing on weekends for some money on the side. So now for my questions:

Any suggestions for the use of M105 and the others on the list below?

Is it necessary to mix in mineral oil or water with compound?

My paint correction part of my list is as follows:

*UPDATED SUPPLY LIST*

Paint Finish/Correction

- Griots Garage DA - $130 (IIRC, includes a backing plate)

- 5.5" LC Flats - $35 (6 pads: 1 Yellow, 2 Orange, 2 White, 1 Black)

- Dual-Action Hook & Loop Flexible Backing Plate 5" - $18

- Meguiars Mirror Glaze #105 Ultra-Cut Compound 32 oz. - $25

- Meguiars Mirror Glaze #205 Ultra Finishing Polish 32 oz. - $28

- Blackfire Wet Diamond All Finish Paint Protection- $37

- Optimum Car Wax 17 oz. - $15

- Meguiars Smooth Surface Clay Kit – WALMART $17

- Chemical Guys Citrus Wash n Gloss 128 oz. - $28

- Collinite Liquid Insulator Wax #845 - $16

Paint Finish/Correction: 349.00


How does this list look to you? What proper steps would I use with these products?

-Wash and Dry with CG Citrus using 2 bucket method.
-Clay Car with Meg's Kit
-Apply M105 with DA
-Apply M205 with DA
-Apply Blackfire Paint Sealant ?
-Apply Collinite 845 ? ^
-Quick once over with Optimum Spray Wax ?

Thanks in advance!

 

[TimmyG]

How does this list look to you? What proper steps would I use with these products?

-Wash and Dry with CG Citrus using 2 bucket method. - Absolutely - no need to dry though, just clay while still wet (but CLEAN!)
-Clay Car with Meg's Kit - Should do wonders for you
-Apply M105 with DA - I'd try a M205 combo first and if that doesn't provide the correction you want, move to M105.
-Apply M205 with DA - Cleans up nicely after M105
-Apply Blackfire Paint Sealant ? - Great sealant and has fantastic durability and gloss
-Apply Collinite 845 ? - Another great product which should give your wet diamond some added longevity.
-Quick once over with Optimum Spray Wax - Probably just wasting time and money here since you'll already have several layers of protection already. You can put two coats of wet diamond of 845 on if you really want.

Thanks in advance!

Answers above.

Pretty nice product list to get started with! Have you worked with M105/M205 or a DA buffer yet?

 

[truckbutt]

M105 takes some getting used to. It can be a PITA but it finishes beautifully. Readhttp://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...-brown-method-few-other-things-explained.html. There are also some great YouTube videos on using it.

 

[NFA]

If the GG comes with a backing plate, why get another one?

How bad are the swirls now? Personally it would be my last resort before I went ahead and used M105. You'd be surprised on how well Ultimate Compound and the MF system with D300 works, and they are a hell of a lot easier to work with.

 

[ZimRandy]

If the GG comes with a backing plate, why get another one?

I think the GG only comes with a 6" backing plate for the 6.5" pads. If he is planning on using the 5.5" pads, then he would need the 5" backing plate.

Randy

 

[wysiwyg]

I think the GG only comes with a 6" backing plate for the 6.5" pads. If he is planning on using the 5.5" pads, then he would need the 5" backing plate.

Randy

I have a GG, and it comes with a 6" packing plate. I wanted to use the 5.5" flat pads so I had to order another backing plate.

 

[T0RCH3D]

Answers above.

Pretty nice product list to get started with! Have you worked with M105/M205 or a DA buffer yet?

No I have not, which is why I wanted some pointers. I am going to be taking my time with it, but all the advice will help.

M105 takes some getting used to. It can be a PITA but it finishes beautifully. Readhttp://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...-brown-method-few-other-things-explained.html. There are also some great YouTube videos on using it.

Will have to look into that! Thanks! rops:

If the GG comes with a backing plate, why get another one?

How bad are the swirls now? Personally it would be my last resort before I went ahead and used M105. You'd be surprised on how well Ultimate Compound and the MF system with D300 works, and they are a hell of a lot easier to work with.

As mentioned earlier I am going with the LC 5.5" Pads. They aren't terrible but they need some cut I think, I was going to try 205 before 105. And yeah I have heard good things about UC but I was hoping to get good with M105 so I can use that for neglected vehicles like my mothers black BMW 330xi :bash:

 

[gmck]

My apologies for not answering your questions via your pm, but I hope you agree that this is a more appropriate place.

To your questions you asked in the pm.

No I don’t have any videos of using M105. There are many videos of M105, some good, but mostly not so good. Some very good videos I would recommend, can be found at A world for detailers... Look up a user known as Dave KG, then click on his profile and then click on “Find all threads started by Dave KG”. You should find quite a few videos on M105. Dave KG is more a rotary guy, but you will find threads and videos of him using M105/M205 on a DA, plus about ever other compound/polish under the sun.

No it is not necessary or even advisable to mix mineral oil with M105. You certainly will not find any reference to adding mineral oil in the instructions on the label of a M105 bottle. Just because some guy’s technique fails with M105 and then claims successes because he added mineral oil doesn’t make it right or something that I want to try. I think you can assume the chemists at Meguiars do know what they are formulating. However, if you want to try it…..

I don’t see much wrong with your list of products, but at this stage I wouldn’t be concerned with sealants, waxes etc. If the aim is to get your new vehicle perfect then you need to concentrate solely on the paint correction at this point, not the protection that you will apply after the correction. When you do get around to choices of sealants and waxes then I’d also suggest that you consider a coating such as Opti-Coat to permanently protect all your hard work.

The combo of M105/M205 is a very popular combo, which will usually deliver very good results assuming the guy behind the polisher is fully conversant with the products and his polisher. I say usually, because there is no guarantee on any paint correction that a particular chosen combo will work 100% of the time for a particular vehicle. That is the whole purpose of a test section to establish which compound/polish/pad will do the job. In that respect your choice of only M105/M205 might prove to be insufficient. Since you intend to detail other vehicles I would suggest that you should also be considering other products to add to your list such as the Menzerna range or even other products from Meguiars such as Ultimate Compound. I think I can guarantee that you will find it very frustrating and disheartening, if your first choice doesn’t actually work out and you then don’t have a plan B or a plan C.

I certainly don’t wish to discourage you, but M105 does have a unique learning curve and I’m presuming at this stage from your comments that you have never used a DA. It is a very big ask to get a perfect result with M105 for a first time user without being hand held by an experienced user, so I would give some consideration to using something like Ultimate Compound first up, which can still achieve good results while you learn to use your DA polisher. In fact it would be a very good learning curve as you probably could not find two more different behaving (non diminishing compounds) which essentially try and do the same job. The other reason why I suggest having Menzerna products on hand is that all their products are diminishing abrasives compounds/polishes (DAT) which require a different technique again. Neither SMAT or DAT is technically superior, but knowing when to use one or the other is based on experience with either type and experience can only come from either being shown how or actually testing each product. As you intend to get into this seriously, I therefore suggest that you get very familiar with all these products rather than expect a certain combo to work with every vehicle you attempt to correct.

Having said all that my first choice when doing a test section would always be M105 on a vehicle which has heavy swirls and other defects that you would normally associate with an older vehicle such as yours.

I posted some time back my tips for using M105 for what they are worth. Please check the following M105 thread http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-101/47352-m105-am-i-doing-wrong-2.html#post637546

Re your purchase list, I would suggest that you should increase the number of orange pads to at least four (you really can’t have too many orange pads) as four is about the absolute minimum you need for one vehicle. Also don’t forget essential items like a pad brush and masking tape. Taping the vehicle is really important as trim and M105 just don’t get along well.

 

[T0RCH3D]

My apologies for not answering your questions via your pm, but I hope you agree that this is a more appropriate place.

To your questions you asked in the pm.

No I don’t have any videos of using M105. There are many videos of M105, some good, but mostly not so good. Some very good videos I would recommend, can be found at A world for detailers... Look up a user known as Dave KG, then click on his profile and then click on “Find all threads started by Dave KG”. You should find quite a few videos on M105. Dave KG is more a rotary guy, but you will find threads and videos of him using M105/M205 on a DA, plus about ever other compound/polish under the sun.

No it is not necessary or even advisable to mix mineral oil with M105. You certainly will not find any reference to adding mineral oil in the instructions on the label of a M105 bottle. Just because some guy’s technique fails with M105 and then claims successes because he added mineral oil doesn’t make it right or something that I want to try. I think you can assume the chemists at Meguiars do know what they are formulating. However, if you want to try it…..

I don’t see much wrong with your list of products, but at this stage I wouldn’t be concerned with sealants, waxes etc. If the aim is to get your new vehicle perfect then you need to concentrate solely on the paint correction at this point, not the protection that you will apply after the correction. When you do get around to choices of sealants and waxes then I’d also suggest that you consider a coating such as Opti-Coat to permanently protect all your hard work.

The combo of M105/M205 is a very popular combo, which will usually deliver very good results assuming the guy behind the polisher is fully conversant with the products and his polisher. I say usually, because there is no guarantee on any paint correction that a particular chosen combo will work 100% of the time for a particular vehicle. That is the whole purpose of a test section to establish which compound/polish/pad will do the job. In that respect your choice of only M105/M205 might prove to be insufficient. Since you intend to detail other vehicles I would suggest that you should also be considering other products to add to your list such as the Menzerna range or even other products from Meguiars such as Ultimate Compound. I think I can guarantee that you will find it very frustrating and disheartening, if your first choice doesn’t actually work out and you then don’t have a plan B or a plan C.

I certainly don’t wish to discourage you, but M105 does have a unique learning curve and I’m presuming at this stage from your comments that you have never used a DA. It is a very big ask to get a perfect result with M105 for a first time user without being hand held by an experienced user, so I would give some consideration to using something like Ultimate Compound first up, which can still achieve good results while you learn to use your DA polisher. In fact it would be a very good learning curve as you probably could not find two more different behaving (non diminishing compounds) which essentially try and do the same job. The other reason why I suggest having Menzerna products on hand is that all their products are diminishing abrasives compounds/polishes (DAT) which require a different technique again. Neither SMAT or DAT is technically superior, but knowing when to use one or the other is based on experience with either type and experience can only come from either being shown how or actually testing each product. As you intend to get into this seriously, I therefore suggest that you get very familiar with all these products rather than expect a certain combo to work with every vehicle you attempt to correct.

Having said all that my first choice when doing a test section would always be M105 on a vehicle which has heavy swirls and other defects that you would normally associate with an older vehicle such as yours.

I posted some time back my tips for using M105 for what they are worth. Please check the following M105 thread http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-101/47352-m105-am-i-doing-wrong-2.html#post637546

Re your purchase list, I would suggest that you should increase the number of orange pads to at least four (you really can’t have too many orange pads) as four is about the absolute minimum you need for one vehicle. Also don’t forget essential items like a pad brush and masking tape. Taping the vehicle is really important as trim and M105 just don’t get along well.

Great info! I can't thank you enough for the in depth reply. I am going to sit back and watch some videos for application as well as buy some painter's tape which I did not think of. What do you recommend for a pad brush/ cleaner? That is one thing I haven't really covered yet.

Also great idea with more pads. I think I am going to add 1 more of each as well as 3 more of the orange as that seems to be a go-to pad here!

I may have to consider Meg's UC but my order keeps climbing in price here so it may be at a later date! I do feel that the two cars I will be working on first, my red 2003 Mustang as mentioned earlier and a black 2006 BMW 330xi both with some heavy correction needed (especially BMW).

I am going to tweak my order here a bit!rops:

 

[gmck]

I use a 3M pad brush, but this looks to be exactly the same Foam Pad Conditioning Brush cleans and reconditions foam and wool pads on the buffer. remove excess caked wax and polish from buffing pads.. AG also seems to stock one from Megs as well.

You could probably save some money by ditching the yellow pads. They are a really firm pad and tend to mar most paints. Definitely not a favourite of mine. See my other comments re what to do when M105 and orange don't seem to be getting the job done.

That BMW will love Menzerna P0203S on white after M105 on orange. Then follow that up with either P0106FF or 85rd on black. Just like I said before the combo of M105/M205 is not always the best choice for every car. German cars just love Menzerna, which makes sense since Menz is also a German company.

I am going to sit back and watch some videos for application

Watching videos can help, but getting stuck into it and learning from your own experiences is going to beat any video every time.

The other thing I forgot the first time round is that you will also need 4" pads for tight areas. At least a couple of orange and white at a minimum. Just remember that a 4" orange pad with M105 is more aggressive than 5.5" inch pad with the same combo, so lighten up some when you swap down to the smaller pads.

but my order keeps climbing in price here so it may be at a later date!

That is not going to work. Not much point even starting, if you don't have all the gear. You might find it easier to cut back on the bottle sizes. From memory I think you can buy Megs in 8oz bottles. Where I am we can get sampler bottles of the Menz range, not sure whether AG stocks those though.

 

[T0RCH3D]

I use a 3M pad brush, but this looks to be exactly the same Foam Pad Conditioning Brush cleans and reconditions foam and wool pads on the buffer. remove excess caked wax and polish from buffing pads.. AG also seems to stock one from Megs as well.

Added to my order, thanks! This will come in handy along with the DP Pad Rejuvinator.

You could probably save some money by ditching the yellow pads. They are a really firm pad and tend to mar most paints. Definitely not a favourite of mine. See my other comments re what to do when M105 and orange don't seem to be getting the job done.

That BMW will love Menzerna P0203S on white after M105 on orange. Then follow that up with either P0106FF or 85rd on black. Just like I said before the combo of M105/M205 is not always the best choice for every car. German cars just love Menzerna, which makes sense since Menz is also a German company.

Followed your advice along with along member who said I could live without the yellow pads first time around, if not indefinately! Unfortunately it didn't save money because I added more than I dropped, go figure! But it is well worth the initial order. As of now I am ordering 4 Orange, 3 White, 2 Black. And I agree the black BMW and Menzerna seem to match, I was going to pick up as small bottle of 85RD, but wasn't to sure of it.

Watching videos can help, but getting stuck into it and learning from your own experiences is going to beat any video every time.

The other thing I forgot the first time round is that you will also need 4" pads for tight areas. At least a couple of orange and white at a minimum. Just remember that a 4" orange pad with M105 is more aggressive than 5.5" inch pad with the same combo, so lighten up some when you swap down to the smaller pads.

Just curious to this response since I will need another backing plate, which pads would I order in this situation since it will only be those close knit areas or paint edges?

That is not going to work. Not much point even starting, if you don't have all the gear. You might find it easier to cut back on the bottle sizes. From memory I think you can buy Megs in 8oz bottles. Where I am we can get sampler bottles of the Menz range, not sure whether AG stocks those though.

Yeah, I hear ya. I have been doing exactly that. But I am also realizing you get more bang for you buck with the larger bottles price wise. This first order is going to be a hefty expense, but entirely well worth it in the end. I can't wait to finally pull the trigger here soon and make a finished result thread!

 

[gmck]

This will come in handy along with the DP Pad Rejuvinator.

Can't imagine what you need that stuff for. I wash all my pads by hand and just use laundry detergent. I've been doing it that way forever and I've always got spotless pads.

Just curious to this response since I will need another backing plate, which pads would I order in this situation since it will only be those close knit areas or paint edges?

Yes obviously you need a matching BP for the smaller pads. I thought I already said orange and white at a minimum. Although I do also use yellow occasionally. Heaps of areas on any vehicle where smaller pads are required. Start polishing and you will find out where pretty quickly. When you need to be aggressive on difficult defects they are essential, so as you minimize the amount of clear coat removed.

 

[T0RCH3D]

I can't thank you enough for all of your advice. You have helped me as well as a lot of other users that may have read up on this thread!