Menzerna Heavy Cut Compound 400 Question

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paulgyro

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I recently purchased Menzerna Heavy Cut Compound 400 and seeing there were no product instructions on the bottle I took a look their YouTube channel and found a video titled "Menzerna | Heavy Cut Compound 400 (EN)".

The application process starts out normal, grab a heavy cutting pad, apply a moderate amount of the product, polish away and then something interesting. Towards the end of the working cycle they say you change your pad to what looks like a polishing pad. No additional product is applied. Can this be why it's said to finish down so well? Do any of you use it like this? How do you know when it's time to change to the polishing pad? Perhaps when it becomes transparent?

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Paul
 
Never used it that way but one recommendation is do not go above speed 4 on your polisher with FG400 - higher speeds can result in dusting and is not needed.
 
I have used it many times and it works well. I have never heard of changing pads but this does sound interesting. The abrasive particles diminish or break down from friction while you use it which is why it will finish out well.

If you are looking for a one step and do not plan to follow with their 3800 or some other fine polish, give it a shot. Your question about when to change the pad is a good one. I would say depending on the speed and pressure you are using, try to watch carefully and determine when the abrasives begin to break down and start to dust and then switch the pad.

I believe the standard practice is to use a medium cut polishing foam pad, do about 4 passes at a higher speed with moderate pressure then slow the machine down and do 2-3 passes with light pressure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
This technique or method is being more and more used over here in the EU. It depends on the polisher and how aggressive it is to break down the abrasives in it. I shared this method with Justin at Final Inspection Auto Detailing to use with 3D One. And I saw it on a domestic detailing company Youtube channel when they showed up their new compound. The thought is to when the abrasives has done the heavy cutting you switch pad or have another polisher with a less aggressive polishing pad on it and you switch to this. And with compounds like the Menzerna HC400 and 3D One you can be able to finishing it off LSP ready on medium to hard paints this way and also getting a higher cut from an one step polishing. You need to be testing it out when it's time for the switch to the polishing/finishing pad. With HC400 I would test to do this after the pass you see it clears up. That's useally a tell when the big cluster of the abrasive has broken down. With slow armspeed it may be only after one pass with a longthrow polisher up to 2 passes. On a free spinning DA polisher with 8mm you may need 2-3 passes before you see this with slow armspeed. Then it's a couple of extra passes when you have changed the polisher/pad to finishing it off. So it's mostly used when you are able to do an one step polish. As if you need a second step you useally has more cut when you start with that combo than when you switch pads when you use only one polish. This can be used with any abrasive technology and any polish or compound. It's not something that's of a benefit to do every time you are useing the HC400.

It's pretty much like any other non deminishing abrasive compound. And it's very high amount of the abrasives in it and great lubrication from it. So not much of it is needed to apply on the pad. Then it's much of the paint you are going to correcting. Some paints with a lot of oxidation can need a drop or two extra than you useally has. A drop extra when you start with a fresh pad. If you don't use a very aggressive pad so you cut a lot of clearcoat off it should dust so much. And if it's dusting a lot when you have polished a couple of sections you have too much of product on the pad and reduce it. But it's hard to say exactly how much of the product is the right as so much variables comes to play. If it dries on the paint you have either used to little of product or overworked it with too much of passes per sections. I useally start with 1 less pea sized drop than the pad size is. So a 5" 4 drops and a 6" 5 drops and then adjust from there. Next section from I started a drop less. Then it depends on the size of the section I polishing which amount I use on the pad. Maybe it's a little complicated and you can use an easier method. But when you get used to it it's gets easier to do and you hardly think about it. So test your way through and see what works for you and adjust from there if needed.

Not the heaviest cutting compound but man do it finishing awesome for being a light cutting compound. Follow it up with the SF3500 and you have a great combo. That you adjust with the pads cut and finishing ability from them with these polishes. I know that the SF3500 has a higher price than the SF3800. But it's a reason for that and it's a higher quality abrasive in the SF3500. That can handle a wider range of cut and finishing than the SF3800. The SF3500 easier getting the haze/micro marring from the HC400 so you can use a less aggressive finishing pad to get it off.
 
SWETM said:
This technique or method is being more and more used over here in the EU. It depends on the polisher and how aggressive it is to break down the abrasives in it. I shared this method with Justin at Final Inspection Auto Detailing to use with 3D One. And I saw it on a domestic detailing company Youtube channel when they showed up their new compound. The thought is to when the abrasives has done the heavy cutting you switch pad or have another polisher with a less aggressive polishing pad on it and you switch to this. And with compounds like the Menzerna HC400 and 3D One you can be able to finishing it off LSP ready on medium to hard paints this way and also getting a higher cut from an one step polishing. You need to be testing it out when it's time for the switch to the polishing/finishing pad. With HC400 I would test to do this after the pass you see it clears up. That's useally a tell when the big cluster of the abrasive has broken down. With slow armspeed it may be only after one pass with a longthrow polisher up to 2 passes. On a free spinning DA polisher with 8mm you may need 2-3 passes before you see this with slow armspeed. Then it's a couple of extra passes when you have changed the polisher/pad to finishing it off. So it's mostly used when you are able to do an one step polish. As if you need a second step you useally has more cut when you start with that combo than when you switch pads when you use only one polish. This can be used with any abrasive technology and any polish or compound. It's not something that's of a benefit to do every time you are useing the HC400.

It's pretty much like any other non deminishing abrasive compound. And it's very high amount of the abrasives in it and great lubrication from it. So not much of it is needed to apply on the pad. Then it's much of the paint you are going to correcting. Some paints with a lot of oxidation can need a drop or two extra than you useally has. A drop extra when you start with a fresh pad. If you don't use a very aggressive pad so you cut a lot of clearcoat off it should dust so much. And if it's dusting a lot when you have polished a couple of sections you have too much of product on the pad and reduce it. But it's hard to say exactly how much of the product is the right as so much variables comes to play. If it dries on the paint you have either used to little of product or overworked it with too much of passes per sections. I useally start with 1 less pea sized drop than the pad size is. So a 5" 4 drops and a 6" 5 drops and then adjust from there. Next section from I started a drop less. Then it depends on the size of the section I polishing which amount I use on the pad. Maybe it's a little complicated and you can use an easier method. But when you get used to it it's gets easier to do and you hardly think about it. So test your way through and see what works for you and adjust from there if needed.

Not the heaviest cutting compound but man do it finishing awesome for being a light cutting compound. Follow it up with the SF3500 and you have a great combo. That you adjust with the pads cut and finishing ability from them with these polishes. I know that the SF3500 has a higher price than the SF3800. But it's a reason for that and it's a higher quality abrasive in the SF3500. That can handle a wider range of cut and finishing than the SF3800. The SF3500 easier getting the haze/micro marring from the HC400 so you can use a less aggressive finishing pad to get it off.
Click to expand...

Thanks Swetm for the very detailed and helpful reply!
 
Just finished a Q50, Graphite Shadow (metallic grey) with Menz 400 with a yellow Rupes polishing pad (used 5 pads), one step. Came out LSP ready, sorry can't upload pictures for some reason.
 
lane5515 said:
Never used it that way but one recommendation is do not go above speed 4 on your polisher with FG400 - higher speeds can result in dusting and is not needed.
Click to expand...

I run my polishers wide open with FG400, no dusting issues.
 
paulgyro said:
I recently purchased Menzerna Heavy Cut Compound 400 and seeing there were no product instructions on the bottle I took a look their YouTube channel and found a video titled "Menzerna | Heavy Cut Compound 400 (EN)".

The application process starts out normal, grab a heavy cutting pad, apply a moderate amount of the product, polish away and then something interesting. Towards the end of the working cycle they say you change your pad to what looks like a polishing pad. No additional product is applied. Can this be why it's said to finish down so well? Do any of you use it like this? How do you know when it's time to change to the polishing pad? Perhaps when it becomes transparent?

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Paul
Click to expand...

Check out this post I did using FG400.

Note post #5

https://www.autogeekonline.net/foru...master-sealant.html?highlight=porsche+cayenne
 
custmsprty said:
Check out this post I did using FG400.

Note post #5

https://www.autogeekonline.net/foru...master-sealant.html?highlight=porsche+cayenne
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing this. Very helpful. It seems like you like living on the edge with running your polisher wide open, using non recommend pads with this polish and using a washing machine with steam to clean pads. But your amazing results speak for themselves don't then?

I'll be doing a black BMW X2 with MF pads so I hope to get similar results as you.

One thing I didn't see in your write up was how many section passes you did and at what arm speed?
 
paulgyro said:
Thanks for sharing this. Very helpful. It seems like you like living on the edge with running your polisher wide open, using non recommend pads with this polish and using a washing machine with steam to clean pads. But your amazing results speak for themselves don't then?

I'll be doing a black BMW X2 with MF pads so I hope to get similar results as you.

One thing I didn't see in your write up was how many section passes you did and at what arm speed?
Click to expand...

Mike Phillips has many posts here about polisher speeds, he runs his polishers wide open (#6) when polishing and correcting too.

I did about 5 test combinations before I setteld on the best combination for the Porsche.

At least 6-8 passes at a slow to medium arm speed.

Can't speak to the mf pad choice though. You may get hazing. I'd suggest doing some test spots with different pads w / FG400 to see what gives you the best final results.
 
I just thought I'd pass along the official word I got from Menzerna.

My question to them: "At point point in the process should one change to the polishing pad? When HCC 400 become transparent?"

Their answer: "Yes, to get the best out of Hcc400 you have to change the hard pad to a medium or soft pad when the product gets transparent. Best regards Your Menzerna Team".

Seeing this is a diminishing abrasive it makes sense to get the most out of the broken down abrasives a softer pad would be required. Or as mentioned by custmsprty earlier lighting way up on the pressure on the final pass.

Paul
 
paulgyro said:
I just thought I'd pass along the official word I got from Menzerna.

My question to them: "At point point in the process should one change to the polishing pad? When HCC 400 become transparent?"

Their answer: "Yes, to get the best out of Hcc400 you have to change the hard pad to a medium or soft pad when the product gets transparent. Best regards Your Menzerna Team".

Seeing this is a diminishing abrasive it makes sense to get the most out of the broken down abrasives a softer pad would be required. Or as mentioned by custmsprty earlier lighting way up on the pressure on the final pass.

Paul
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting this. I love HC400 and have used it many years. I’ve never thought about stepping down to a softer pad. I’ve always marveled at the finish with a microfiber or wool pad and “how it was almost LSP ready”. I’ll have to give this method a try. The miracle of diminishing abrasives, lol.
 
rlmccarty2000 said:
Thanks for posting this. I love HC400 and have used it many years. I’ve never thought about stepping down to a softer pad. I’ve always marveled at the finish with a microfiber or wool pad and “how it was almost LSP ready”. I’ll have to give this method a try. The miracle of diminishing abrasives, lol.
Click to expand...

Work it baby!!::buffing::dblthumb2:
 
Over the weekend I was finally able to the use HC400 with a Lake Country MF Cutting pad. I couldn't believe how well it finished out with a MF cutting pad. Beyond the results I was pleased on how easy it was to wipe off and the little to no dusting I had. Great product to be sure!
 
Good thread!!

Will be using FG400 on my black 2010 Audi S4.

Noticed a 'haze' on the test spot I did last weekend. Going to try on the last pass with my G21 with 5inch backing plate and Meg MF cutting pad...going over the last pass or two with 'light' pressure and see if it finishes off better.

My only issue is dusting with it. I when applying FG400 to my MF pad, I prime the pad first and then on future passes just put 3 pea size drops when it looks like it's drying out.

Am I doing something wrong here?
 
Matador said:
Good thread!!

Will be using FG400 on my black 2010 Audi S4.

Noticed a 'haze' on the test spot I did last weekend. Going to try on the last pass with my G21 with 5inch backing plate and Meg MF cutting pad...going over the last pass or two with 'light' pressure and see if it finishes off better.

My only issue is dusting with it. I when applying FG400 to my MF pad, I prime the pad first and then on future passes just put 3 pea size drops when it looks like it's drying out.

Am I doing something wrong here?
Click to expand...

The Meg MF Cutting pad is less aggressive then the LC Cutting so in theory you should be able to finish down better.

The HC400 goes along ways so perhaps you are just using too much product. When I've used the Meg MF pads they seem to get overloaded fast so I'd minimally prime the pad and use 2-3 slight smaller drops between your 2x2 section passes.

Work the product until it goes clear, then lighten up pressure and do one more cross hatch section pass. If you still have hazing at this point to finish down better swap out to a finishing / polishing pad.

Hope this helps, let me know how it goes!

Paul
 
Matador said:
Good thread!!

Will be using FG400 on my black 2010 Audi S4.

Noticed a 'haze' on the test spot I did last weekend. Going to try on the last pass with my G21 with 5inch backing plate and Meg MF cutting pad...going over the last pass or two with 'light' pressure and see if it finishes off better.

My only issue is dusting with it. I when applying FG400 to my MF pad, I prime the pad first and then on future passes just put 3 pea size drops when it looks like it's drying out.

Am I doing something wrong here?
Click to expand...

Just to clarify do you polish say 3 passes per sections and if you notice it's starts to dry you ad HC400 to the pad and do 2 more passes on the same section?

I would look at the amount of passes per sections you do with the G21 and mf cutting pad and HC400. As remember your G21 is a very effective polisher. So if you go with the normal armspeed of a inch per second. You usually just need to be doing 2-3 passes per sections with a 21mm longthrow polisher. While with say a 8mm free spinning DA polisher you may need 4-5 passes per sections to get the same results between them. Many don't think about this that different kind of throw and free spinning or not with the same armspeed you need less passes with a more effective polisher. That's where you get the time saving between them and a rotary polisher is even more effective. So if you are set on doing 4-5 passes per sections you need to be haveing a higher armspeed than now or use less passes. Cause I think that when it starts to dust if you don't have useded the pad on to many sections or saturated the pad. You are overworking the HC400. So try to use 1 less pass and inspect the results until you are satisfied with the results. The problem with if you ad polish during the section passes is that this is a diminishing abrasive. So you get a full cut when adding the HC400 on it again. And it's cutting way more than a non diminishing abrasives does in the beginning. The benefit with the newer diminishing abrasives like in the HC400 is that they are sharper and breaks down much faster than before. So after the first pass you have already done the heavy cutting from the HC400. And on a 15mm or 21mm longthrow polisher you may have broken down the abrasives in it fully after 2 passes. So have a look at the HC400 when it's clears up then you have already done the heavy cutting part and is on the refine part. On a 21mm longthrow polisher if you don't have the HC400 to be cleared up after 3 passes per sections you use way to much of product. As it's a very high concentration of the abrasives in it. It's hard to say how much of the polish you ad on the pad. As it's depends on how big of a section you are polishing on and the condition of the paint and also on the pad you are apply it on in how it soaks up the polish. One more thing that can make most polishes dust is when you polishing in high humidity. Sounds backwards but it's useally so LOL. The early version of fg400 when it got from fg500 was a mess to be polishing when it where high humidity where you polished. They did fix this to the better right before they changed the formula before the name also changed to HC400. Sadly they just change the formula on the go so it's hard to know which version you do have. If you have the new name HC400 you have the latest version and if you got the fg400 then you can have the older more finicky version in the high humidity.
 
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