some say 4000 is to be used by machine only and others say 2500 can be used by hand and machine...
From my first-hand experience, (no pun intended), all Menzerna compounds and polishes can be used by hand. It requires a LOT more skill to work on a scratch-sensitive clear coat paint system by hand than it does by machine but if you have the drive, energy and patience you can do it.
Just to note... compounds and polishes that can be used successfully by hand means they'll remove defects without leaving their own defects. This is actually a MIGHTY task and I would sat not all, maybe even not most products in the compound and polish category can do this. Menzerna is one that can.
Here's proof...
How to remove wetsanding scratches by hand - FG 400
Paint panel machine sanded using #3000 Triazact...
And if a person can remove sanding marks by hand well sanding marks a just a type of below surface defects and this mean you could remove ANY type of below surface defect with enough passion behind the pad...
what i think im planning to do is using
- Lake Country 4' Orange pad on polishing pal
- with 2500 on it
- and start with 2 x 2 area...
- over lapping circular motions..
Hmm.... good luck with that...
You can't even tackle 2' x 2' section with a Porter Cable as this is too large an area to work so only if you're
Hercules the Detailer are you going to remove below surface defects to an area that large by hand. If you did remove all the defects to an area that large by hand you would be to tired to do the rest of the car.
I've rubbed entire cars out by hand and I've been doing this a long time and I'm here to tell you it's not only very muscle intensive it takes more skill than turning a simple tool like a Porter Cable 7424XP on and simply guiding it over the paint.
Instead, take a 16" square microfiber towel and place it on a panel, for example the hood and work an area this size or smaller.
Spread the product out using an overlapping circular motion because the EASIEST way to spread a product out by hand is by using an overlapping circular motion. THEN switch to straight line motions and,
- Push down firmly, I would even say hard.
- Move your hand at the speed of light
- Do this for about 1-2 minutes.
- Be sure to use enough product to keep plenty of lubrication and abrasives on the surface.
Keep in mind when you're doing this type of AGGRESSIVE work to your car's scratch-sensitive paint you will often remove the defects you were going after but that paint won't look perfect, at least not after the first step. That's where you have to re-polish with a less aggressive product and pad and use a more gentle polishing action with your had.
Removing swirls and scratches mean removing paint and to do this by hand you have to press hard and move your hand fast otherwise the abrasive won't take little bites out of the paint and level it. Make sense?
after that using Gray pad ill use 4000 to bring the shine to it
Good here...
and later lock it with red pad and power lock...
You're good here.
do i have to use 2500 and 4000 both or just 2500?
Depends on what you're trying to do and how good you end up being at working by hand.
If you're trying to remove swirls and scratches you're going to need the more aggressive product. Heck in the article I shared above I'm using the Menzerna FG 400 COMPOUND to remove #3000 grit sanding marks induced by machine. The only thing easier to remove than #3000 grit sanding marks by machine is #5000 grit sanding marks by machine.
(Hand sanding marks are ALWAYS a lot harder to remove than machine sanding marks, I demonstrated this in my wetsanding class at Mobile Tech this year).
Here's what I would recommend...
Test out everything you've described to one small section on the hood or trunk lid of your car, that is map out a section about a foot squared or like I said, the size of a 16" microfiber towel and do all the steps. Polish, re-polish and then seal.
Then inspect the results. See if your happy. Gauge your happiness or un-happiness to how much work you did and how much time you invested. Remember... we didn't make clear coat paints, car manufactures order their paints to their specs from paint manufacturers.
In the OLD DAYS it was very easy to rub out an old single stage lacquer or enamel paint job because this was REAL paint, not hard plastic.
Hang on and I'll dig up the article you should read...
Not trying to scare you from tackling your car by hand but letting you know it's a lot more work than doing it by machine. As long as you don't have show car expectation you should be okay.
