My Neighbors Third Cousins Daughter.....

Flash Gordon

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So, I got a situation I need some advice with. My neighbor approached me yesterday. Her 3rd cousins daughter just moved here from Florida. Upon arrival, she decided to wash her car and get all the bugs off. She was having a heck of a time I suppose, so she went with a brillo pad. Now the entire front clip, along with the mirrors are a mess

I have no personal expierence in wetsanding with a DA, but am confident with the right help I might be able to make this situation better

The car in question is a 2011 Hynd Sonata. 4 months ago this thing was in Korea

Anyone who can offer me assistance, I would be forever greatfull to you

Thank you for your time,

Flash :buffing:

PS She's gone to England for 2 weeks, so time is on my side
 
you may not need to wet sand. try a rotary with whatever compound you got handy and are use to using. had a guy awhile ago come into dealership that took S.O.S. pad to his hood to remove tree sap. i cleaned it up real good with a rotary and whatever product line the dealership had. it cleaned up good enough that i got $100 cash from him and 1 week later he come back for me to do rest of the car
 
wow.. brand new car too

any pics?

what about your fav combo surbuffs with 105?
 
you may not need to wet sand. try a rotary with whatever compound you got handy and are use to using. had a guy awhile ago come into dealership that took S.O.S. pad to his hood to remove tree sap. i cleaned it up real good with a rotary and whatever product line the dealership had. it cleaned up good enough that i got $100 cash from him and 1 week later he come back for me to do rest of the car

Already hit it with a rotary/wool ~ da w/surbuf with little to any improvement

Brotha... why didn't you just e-mail me?! :dunno:

Don't think I didn't think about that ^ Afterall, I am the greatest detailer ever. Kinda humbling making this thread

I was hoping you (and others) would see this and help me out here. Hopefully that way if someone else ever expeirences this problem they will have a handy answer

wow.. brand new car too

any pics?

what about your fav combo surbuffs with 105?

I can send Kevin a pic through my phone, but its gonna look super crappy I'm sure

Tried Surbufs and 105. Made barely made a dent

The one thing that really concerns me is the front bumper. This thing is massive, and its plastic :nervous:
 
Did I loose you guys at:

a) Noob to wetsanding

b) 4 month old car

or

c) Plastic bumper


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

So, I just did 2 seperate sections. One using P3000 the other Abralon 2000, then P3000. Looks better, but I think I need to go deeper

Questions?

1) What speed should I be at?

2) How much pressure?

3) How much water?
 
If you haven't already, read through this so you know exactly what you're getting yourself into...

Wet-sanding - Fresh Paint vs Factory Paint

Ever since discussion forums starting popping up on the Internet there's always been a fair amount of interest in the topic of wet-sanding either on detailing forums or forums dedicated to a particular type of car, for example CorvetteForum.com, a site dedicated to Corvettes.

And as with most topics there's a certain amount of confusion in general about the process, so here's just a tidbit on the topic of wet-sanding that I don't see addressed in a lot of threads on this topic.

Here's the skinny...

The majority of all wet-sanding is performed on fresh paint, there's no hard statistic but I usually float the percentage of 90% to 95% but admit that I could be off just because of the increased interest in the topic thanks to its popularity on the myriad of different discussion forums all over the world wide web.

Regardless of the exact percentage figure, the bigger picture is that the majority of wet-sanding is performed on fresh paint, not factory baked-on paint.

Here's why fresh paint is more often sanded

  • Fresh paint will tend to be softer.
  • Fresh paint will tend to be thicker.
  • Fresh paint will be sprayed on custom projects with more planning involved and higher expectations.
Here's why factory paint is more often not sanded
  • Factory paint will be harder.
  • Factory paint will be thinner.
  • There is little to zero discussion between the future owner and the technicians and or robots programed to spray paint.
Now lets look at each of these topic in a little more detail...



Fresh paint sprayed at a local body shop

Fresh paint will tend to be softer
Modern basecoat/clearcoat paints are catalyzed, that is they are chemically hardened, a simple analogy would be the way you mix a 2-part epoxy glue together and the resulting product hardens through a chemical reaction. If you've ever worked with fiberglass and polyester resin where a small amount of catalyst, (hardener), is added to the resin and the chemical reaction cause the resin to cure and harden, that's another simple analogy as to how catalyzed basecoat/clearcoat paints are hardened.

Contrast this to older style paints which were called solvent-evaporation paints in which the paints dried without the use of a catalyzing agent and instead simply dried and hardened over a longer period of time as the solvents mixed into the paint evaporated.

Even though most modern paints are chemically cured, there is still a window of time where these paint are not 100% hardened and during this window-of-time the paint is what is sometimes refereed to as still wet, not like in wet gooey paint but as in still soft enough to easily sand and buff.

There are also what are called fast drying, medium drying and slow drying reducers which are solvents for mixing in with the paint to give it a thinner viscosity before spraying. A painter can match their choice of reducer to speed up or slow down the drying time.

All these factors can affect paint hardness or softness in the first few days that follow after the car leaves the paint booth.

Usually, if the painters knows the car is to be wet-sanded after painting he can adjust how he mixes the paint to give the person usually called "The Painter's Helper" time to sand and buff the paint before it becomes too hard. Time of year which includes temperature and humidity can also play huge factors in drying or curing time and can be factored in and adjusted for.

Now here's what's key about this, sanding paint is always easy whether the paint is fresh or baked-on at the factory, in simple terms, (very simple terms for the purpose of explanation), sanding paint is putting scratches into the paint.


Again... sanding paint is easy, it's the part where you try to remove your sanding marks that can be difficult. The harder the paint the more difficult it will be to buff out your sanding marks. The softer the paint the easier it will be to remove your sanding marks.


Fresh paint will tend to be thicker
At the body shop level, again if the painter knows the car is to be sanded and buffed, they'll usually add an extra coat or more of paint, this gives the painter's helper a little more wiggle room to sand and buff and not worry about sanding or buffing through the clear coat and exposing the basecoat.

I've also met painters that will just spray a thicker or heavier coat and only spray 2 coats of paint but through factors they can control they can spray it on thicker and therefore not have to spray a third or fourth coat.




Fresh paint will be sprayed on custom projects with more planning and higher expectations.
If you're having a custom car project painted, for example you spent months and more than likely years rebuilding a classic Mustang and now it's time to get it painted, in most cases you'll be meeting with the painter ahead of time planning out the paint job and it's at this time you discuss with them your expectations. If you want the car sanded flat and then buffed to a high gloss for a true show car finish, (if this is you goal or expectation), then the painter will spray an extra coat or two of paint to provide plenty of film-build for the painter's helper to safely sand the paint flat. They will also build in the cost of the extra materials, (clear paint), time and labor to your bill.

Summery
Fresh paint sprayed at your local body shop, specifically the clear layer, will tend to be thicker than the clear layer that comes from the factory and it will tend to be softer and easier to sand and buff shortly after the car comes out of the paint booth. Because it's thicker there is a little more safety margin or wiggle-room for the person to sand and buff the paint and not break-through the clear layer and expose the basecoat. Because the paint is fresh it's going to be softer than factory baked-on paint, at least for a window of time and this will make buffing out the sanding marks faster and easier.



Factory baked-on paint

Factory paint will be harder
The original paint sprayed onto your car as it traveled down the assembly line at the manufacturer's plant is in most cases baked-on at high temperatures before any wiring or the interior is installed and for this reason higher temperatures can be used since there's nothing to melt of catch on fire in or on the car yet. By the time the car pops-out the end of the assembly line the paint is fully cured and hardened. For this reason it will still be easy to sand, (that's putting scratches into the paint), but it will be more difficult to remove your sanding marks out of the paint.



Factory paint will be thinner
At the factory, the paining process is very automated and the amount of clear paint applied to the vehicle is done so in a tightly controlled manner and to very stringent specifications. You don't have the ability to ask for an extra coat of clear, or for a thicker coat of paint to be sprayed and from a materials cost point of view, it's probably safe to say that the amount of paint used to coat each car trends towards being the minimum amount, not a generous amount. Simply put, factory clear coat paints tend to be very thin compared to what you can get at your local body shop.



Summary
Factory paint will tend to be hard and thin, it will be easy to sand but more difficult to remove your sanding marks out 100%

Factory paint will be thin and if you're not really careful you'll break-through the clear layer and expose the basecoat or color coat either during the sanding process or the ensuing buffing process as both procedures remove a little paint.


The above is usually the portion that's left out of most threads on this this topic as it's discussed around the web on the various discussion forums. My theory is because it's left out of so many discussions on the topic, a lot of people don't understand the above differences in types of paint, (fresh vs factory), and that's why you'll often see someone posting that they're interested in sanding the orange peel on their factory finish till its' removed, (till the surface is flat), and then trying to remove their sanding marks, often times with a PC style polisher.

That's just my theory... but I've participated in a lot of these types of threads and when point about the differences listed above it's usually an eye-opener for those thinking about sanding their car's factory hard and thin paint.


:)
 
Below is an excerpt from this article,

Damp-Sanding Tools, Tips and Techniques by Mike Phillips


Damp-sanding Fresh Paint
In a body shop situation in most cases when the painter knows the car will be sanded for a show car finish then they will spray extra clear, (or extra paint in the case of a single stage finish), onto the car to provide more material or film-build for sanding and buffing. For these situations, you can start with the more aggressive 1500 Sanding Discs to level orange peel and remove surface texture.

Most sanding for a custom paint job is done while the paint is still soft or fresh, that is within days of the car being moved out of the paint booth, thus the term fresh paint.


Damp-sanding Factory Paint
Because the factory finish on new cars, truck and s.u.v.s are thin, sanding and compounding should only be used to correct serious below surface defects as an option and if you have confidence the paint has not been sanded or compounded previously and of course, confidence in your skills and abilities.

Enables you to buff cooler
The theory behind using Meguiar's Unigrit Sanding and Finishing discs to sand thin, factory paint is that while it adds a step in most detailing processes, it saves time overall because it enables you to remove the defects faster by requiring less passes with your rotary buffer and aggressive compounds. This reduces heat, enabling you to buff cooler and can also help to reduce deep swirls.

More Control
Without sanding, you don't know how deep the defects are so you don't know how aggressive you need to get in order to remove them, the only way to find out is by trial and error. With Unigrit Sanding and Finishing Discs, you have control over the depth of the sanding marks thus you have more control over the compounding step.

Keep in mind that all the UV protection for the basecoat is suspended in the clear coat or clear layer of paint sprayed over the basecoat or colored layer paint. You need approximately 1.3 mils of clear to provide enough UV protection to protect the color coat from failing. New cars come with approximately 2.0 mils of clear paint so you have a little wiggle room for sanding and buffing but always follow the practice of,

"Use the least aggressive product to get the job done"


Damp-sanding factory paint usually mans sanding on very hard paint because the paint was baked-on at high temperatures at the manufacturing plant and is no longer fresh and could be anywhere from months to years to decades old. This means the paint is fully cured, fully dried and fully hardened.


:)
 
Continued...

How-To Damp-sand

Here are the basic techniques for damp-sanding using an air-powered DA Sander, these techniques can also be used with an electric D.A. Polisher but use an electric tool at your own risk.

Preparation
Wash the vehicle to remove loose surface dirt
Wash car to remove all loose surface dirt off the paint and out of any cracks, crevices, body seams and trim. It is vitally important that the vehicle is surgically clean before sanding because if any abrasive particulate enters the sanding process and is trapped between your sanding disc and the paint finish it will instill what are referred to as pigtails.


Pigtails - Photo courtesy of Mister B
Pigtails are deeper circular scratches that look somewhat like a curled pig's tail thus the name. Typically what happens is an abrasive particle gets trapped between the paint and the face of your sanding disc and because the backing plate that holds the sandpaper is moving in an oscillating fashion, it grinds the abrasive particle into the paint in a curly pattern that looks somewhat like the tail on a pig, thus the name.

Pigtails
pigtails.jpg



Use Detailing Clay to remove Above Surface Bonded Contaminants
After washing or wiping the car clean, use detailing clay to remove any Above Surface Bonded Contaminants. This is especially important if you're working on any car that's been put back into use as a daily driver because it can pick up air-borne contaminants from just about anywhere and you don't want any particulates bonded to the paint coming off while you're sanding so remove them first with detailing clay.

When I damp-sanded the 1969 El Camino of which some of the pictures from that project are used in this article, after wiping the El Camino clean I clayed all the painted body panels, (and the glass while I was at it), and even though this car is part of a collection of street rods and parked inside all the time it's not being driven, below is a picture of the detailing clay patty I used after ONLY claying the hood on this car.

Detailing Clay after claying ONLY the hood of the 1969 El Camino in this article
DampSanding37.jpg



For a car parked inside, with a relatively new, custom paint job there was a lot of built-up contaminants on the finish that would have come off and onto the sanding discs reducing their working life and possibly causing pigtails.



Chemically Strip Paint
Chemically stripping the paint will remove waxes, paint sealants, silicones, polymers and any other substance off the finish that washing will not remove and was not removed by the claying process. Detailing clay will actually remove a lot of any substances bonded to the upper surface of the paint, including waxes and paint sealants, but under a microscope paint is not completely flat, it's made up of hills and valleys, pockets and pores, surface imperfections and interstices.

Interstices = Microscopic cracks and fissures.


Remember, a lot of modern car wax and paint sealant products are detergent resistant so washing won't alway remove 100% of any previously applied wax or paint sealant coating.

Important: You don’t want any chemical substance bonded onto the surface to come off while sanding as it can interfere with the cutting process, load up on the face of our sanding disc and cause your disc to wear-out prematurely.

Common products for chemically stripping the finish include Prep-All, Orderless Mineral Spirits, Automotive All Purpose Cleaners, Isopropyl Alcohol.

You can dampen a microfiber towel and wipe the surface clean or use a spray bottle with a chemical resistant spray head to spray directly onto the surface and then wipe the paint dry using clean microfiber towels.


Prep-All
DampSanding31.jpg

Safety Precautions with an air-powered DA Sander
Always wear eye protection and ear protection.


Safety Precautions with Electric DA Sander/Polishers
If using an electric DA Polisher make sure you have access to a GFI Outlet. A GFI or Ground Fault Interrupter will stop the flow of electricity if it detects a leakage or short in the normal circuit or flow of current.

GFI Outlet
DampSanding30.jpg


And always wear eye protection and ear protection when using any power tool.



Work Area Size? - 2" x 2" or smaller
In the real world, you would slice up the car panel by panel and then slice up the panel to section usually no larger than about 20” squarish or so. This is not a hard and fast rule because not all panels are square and flat, in fact since the 1980’s most car bodies incorporate aerodynamics designs and are very rounded and curvy.


Why you don't want to tackle too large an area at one time...
Regardless of the shape of the panel, the reason you don't want to tackle too large of an area at one time is because you have better control over downward pressure when the sander is near your body. The further you reach out away from your body the more likely you'll change the downward pressure and possibly tilt the polisher potentially causing more pressure to and edge on the face of your sanding disc and this can cause gouging or deeper scratches in the paint.

The width of your shoulders is a pretty good measurement for as large of a dimension as you would ever want to tackle on a surface. My shoulders measure approximately 20" wide so I would only want to tackle a section 20" squarish or smaller, not larger.



Water Volume?
Damp-sanding is using only a few mists of water. Meguiar’s new Unigrit Sanding and Finishing Discs MUST be used wet but not over-wet. All you need is a mist or two of clear water to the face of the pad and a few mists of water to the surface to be sanded. Damp-sanding should not be a wet-mess on the car, or on the ground surrounding the car.

  • Too much water will hyper-lubricate the surface and reduce cutting action.
  • Too little water will increase cutting, clog disc and wear disc out prematurely.

Unigrit Sanding and Finishing Discs are always used wet. Use water only - no sanding lube (soap).


Use a clean water source - no soap or sanding lube
DampSanding23.jpg



It's safer to error on the side of caution and use an extra mist or two of water until you get a feel for the right balance for your environmental conditions. Temperature, humidity, airflow, affect all machine sanding process including the Unigrit Sanding System so there can be no hard and fast recommendations. Practice makes perfect.

VITALLY IMPORTANT
It's vitally important that you stay focused on the amount of water you're using when damp-sanding because if you use too much water and your disc hydroplanes, you can mis-read this to mean the disc is spent of used-up and no longer cutting.

If the disc is in fact still good and you throw it away because you used too much water then you waste a good disc and these are not inexpensive.


Remember, it's not wet sanding it’s damp-sanding
I took the below picture after completely sanding down a 1969 El Camino. Note the water level in the clear spray bottle.

Only 16 ounces of water used to sand an entire 1969 El Camino
DampSanding38.jpg



This is a 32 ounce spray bottle and I never refilled it during the sanding process, this means I used approximately 16 ounces of water to sand down a full size, domestic vehicle.


Downward Pressure?
Light Pressure. When machine sanding you only need to use the weight of the machine and whatever more pressure it takes to keep the pad flat to the surface with no hopping or skipping. It’s vitally important to maintain disc rotation so you don't want to use too low of a speed setting.


Tool Speed Setting?
Fast. With an air powered D.A. Sander you're going to be on 3/4 to full throttle With a Meguiar's electric polisher you’re going to use the 3.0 to 6.0 speed setting depending upon whether you're sanding a flat surface or a curved surface. It's safer to turn the speed down anytime you're sanding small curved areas or hard to reach areas.

You can see the Throttle next to my thumb on the underside of this 3M Air-Powered DA Sander
DampSanding02.jpg



Air Pressure or PSI
Before using an air powered DA Sander check to see what the tool manufacture recommends for Maximum PSI or PSIG.

PSI = Pounds per square inch
PSIG - Pounds per square inch at the gauge

I think the main difference between PSI and PSIG is that PSI is not specific to the point of connection for the tool and could mean compressed air pressure at the tank and not the actual gauge and thus the air line feeding your tool. That means there can be differences in PSI by the time it gets to your tool depending upon the shop you work in and how many lines are being fed by the air tank/compressor. The important point is to make sure you don't starve your air tool for compressed air and you don't over feed the tool with too much air pressure.

The 3M DA Sander shown in this article states to not exceed 90 PSI
DampSanding36.jpg



The air regulator for use in our shop is usually set to around 110 PSI so when I want to use the air compressor I have to decrease the pressure coming out of the line by adjusting the regulator down to 90 PSI
DampSanding35.jpg




Sanding Pattern?

Cross Hatch Pattern --> UMR = Uniform Material Removal.

The goal when sanding is to remove the defects while removing as little paint or topcoat material as possible. Of course the reason for this is to leave as much paint on the car to last over the service life of the car. So your specific goal is to only sand enough to remove the defects and then STOP. The only way you will know how much sanding is required to remove the defects is by testing each paint system you work on and getting a feel for how many passes it takes to remove the defects you're going after.

Because topcoat hardness is a variable you cannot control, you must do a Test Spot on each new car you work on to figure out how easily or difficult the paint is sanding to remove enough material to reach your goal.


Cross Hatch Pattern
Sanding back in forth in a straight line with a DA Sander creates the potential to remove material unevenly if you're not very careful. Adding a second direction will help insure the surface remains flat with no low/high troughs or valleys running a dedicated direction in the panel. A cross hatch pattern helps to ensure uniform material removal over an entire panel.

Of course the shape of some panels will not lend themselves to sanding in a cross hatch pattern and you will be limited to only sanding in one direction. For panels such as these be sure to overlap your passes by 50%

Pre-determined pattern = Easy to duplicate and less thinking required
The benefit to using a cross hatch pattern is that it's easy to remember and thus easy to duplicate over and over again for production sanding work. Feel free to come up with your own system that suits your goals best, these are just my recommendations as to what works best for me. If you have employees, you always want to make procedures they will do over and over again easy to learn and repeat for fewer mistakes.


DampSanding32.jpg


DampSanding33.jpg


DampSanding34.jpg




Arm Speed?
Use a rapid arm speed when machine sanding.

Unigrit discs are designed to cut fast and cut for a long time with light pressure and a fast arm speed. Moving the sander/polisher too slowly will cause the abrasives to cut too deeply and will wear the disc out prematurely. There’s a learning curve to every process and that includes machine sanding with these new Unigrit Sanding Discs and you’re better to error on the side of caution by using too fast of an arm speed versus too slow.

When first starting out, stop often and check your results.




B.I.T.E.

This is key remember… BITE which stands for Break-In Time Efficiency

New discs SKIM the surface until they break-in. A brand new disc requires anywhere from 2-4 passes to break-in before maximum cutting efficiency is reached. This has to do with physical process taking place on the surface of the paint and a physical process taking place on the surface of the paper.

Top coat hardness is a huge factor and unknown variable between cars and effects how fast or how slow a disc will break-in. During the manufacturing process, the Unigrit abrasive particles are embodied in a slurry which hardens into a solid medium and this medium offers a controlled rate of break-down.

Efficient cutting is seen when the water slurry on the surface is whitish in color. This is an indicator of clear paint particles suspended in the water film on the surface.

During break-in, the disc goes from skimming to biting or abrading... your job?

Pay attention to the task at hand.


This circles back to monitoring how much water you're using because a lack of whitish appearance to the water could mean the disc is either,
  • Not broken in yet
  • Too much water on the surface resulting in hydroplaning
  • The disc is spent or used-up, that is the majority of abrasives have been worn off the face of the disc

The appearance for all three of the above is clear water on the surface, so pay attention to the amount of water on the surface and how much area you've used each disc to sand and the concentration or lack thereof of the whitish appearance to the lubricating water.


Number of passes?
When sanding with the Meguiar's Unigrit Sanding Discs, after the initial break-in of the disc, sand for 2-4 Section Passes and then inspect.



The definition of a pass
There are two definitions of the word pass as it relates to machine polishing with any type of machine. We can apply this to machine sanding as well.
Single Pass
A single pass is just that. It's when you move the tool from one side of the section you're sanding to the other side of the section you're sanding. That's a single pass.

Section Pass
A section pass is when you move the tool back and forth, or front to back with enough single overlapping passes to cover the entire section one time. That's a section pass.


Taping-Off, Covering Up and Removing Trim
As a rule, it's a good idea to tape-off any raised hard body line for two reasons,

  1. So you don't sand over the high points
  2. Simply so you can see where they risky areas are at on a panel

1. So you don't sand over the high points
Paint will tend to be thinnest on any high point as the forces of gravity will cause the paint when it's sprayed and thus a liquid to flow downward. It only takes a few seconds of sanding on any high point, edge, corner or raised body line to either sand through the topcoat or remove enough material that when you later compound the area you go through the topcoat while compounding. So taping off high points will save you from having to repaint a panel.

2. So you can see where they risky areas are at on a panel
This one might sound kind of dumb if you've never sanded down an entire car before so let me share with you why it's important. As you're sanding, you'll create a white slurry on the panel that you can't see through. This slurry is made up of particles of paint you've removed off the topcoat, mixed with water. As it covers the panel it hides or camouflages everything under it including a high point or raised body line. By placing some tape over the area you want to avoid you create a visual indicator or reminder of where not to sand.

Here you can see where I've taped-off the edge of the gas tank door and the sheet metal surrounding the opening for the gas tank door. This will protect the edges while sanding and compounding.

Body lines taped-off
redelcamino_023.jpg


If you look carefully you can see some thin tape lines running down the center of the hood and the middle of each half-sections of the hood, these are raised body lines as a part of the styling of the hood. They are not very high off the surface and when sanding, the entire area will become white with water slurry. By taping them off I could see where they were at and if I accidentally run the sander too close to them, no worries...

Thin tape on top of raised body lines on the hood
DampSanding39.jpg



Grills and Vents
It's nearly impossible to get under the fresh air grill on late model cars to remove splatter residue so I always carefully tape them off. Sad to say but whoever sanded and buffed this car before me plastered the area under the tape you see here and there's no practical safe way to remove it so it will forever be an eyesore when the owner shows this El Camino

Fresh Air Grills Taped-off
redelcamino_020.jpg


Here you can see where I've taped-off any edge I didn't want to risk sanding over... and it's not that I'm not good at what I do it's because the next paint job I buy is going to be for me.

redelcamino_021.jpg


redelcamino_019.jpg


redelcamino_017.jpg



Also tape off any trim you cannot or will not remove, especially plastic, rubber or felt trim and gaskets. This goes without saying but just to say it or type it, the reason you do this is so you don't damage the material while sanding and buffing and so you don't cream it over with compound or polish residue which later can be a nightmare to remover and cause the owner of the project vehicle to use your name as a curse word the rest of your life.

On classic cars, trim, script and emblems can be very fragile, especially the studs and nuts that hold them to a panel. What I personally like to do is point this out to the owner of the car and ask if they can and are willing to remove them so I can do a better job of sanding and buffing out their car. If they say "yes", this puts the responsibility on them for any damage caused by removal.

The good news is that often times owners of special interest and classic cars will already be very familiar with these items and understand the risk and in some cases be very proficient at their removal since they are more intimate with their car than you are.

If the owner cannot or will not remove trim, script or emblems then you can opt to remove them yourself as carefully as possible and/or tape or cover them up.


Covering up
I like to cover up the engine on special interest cars and especially show cars or restored cars where the engine and engine compartment are clean enough to eat off of. The reason for this is because it's all to easy for stray splatter from either wet-sanding or machine compounding and polishing to spray onto the engine and engine compartment and cleaning these areas can be difficult and very time consuming.

Here's a video I made a number of years ago that explains why to cover an engine and shows my method of using a clean, soft flannel bedsheet to carefully cover and protect the engine. You can also do this for trunks and interiors if you're working on a convertible with the top down or off the car.



Covering the motor on the Panic Parrot
[video=youtube_share;sE_0W-VXjR4]- Covering the motor on the Panic Parrot with a flannel bedsheet[/video]


To tape-off and cover areas and items on a car you'll need things like a good selection of Painter's Tape.

DampSanding24.jpg



Also I like to have 2 mill Plastic Painter's drop cloths on hand, tin foil, and even a Beach Towel to cover up windshields and wiper assemblies in one fell swoop.


Canvas Wheel Covers
UnigritDampSanding004.jpg



Wheel Covers make fast work of covering and protecting custom wheels and tires, don't kid yourself, wiping off any splatter from a well dressed tire or an intricate wheel design will be time consuming and not very much fun. Besides Canvas Wheel Covers like body shops use I've also used large Glad Garbage bags, like the kind you get for leafs and yard debris, you can slit them on one side and then slide them over the wheel and tire and tape back any loose plastic. I've also used newspaper to create a makeshift cover with tape as seen here,


Whatever it takes to keep the tire and wheel clean and keep me from having to wipe off any stray splatter is my personal goal. I love polishing paint but I hate detailing cars. (See the link below to see what that means)

"Polishing paint is polishing paint, detailing is getting the wax out of the cracks"


smile.gif
 
While the above goes over using the Meguiar's Unigrit Sanding and Finishing Discs, you want to use many of the same techniques using the Abralon discs except that you can soak them before you use them.

The Abralon system works really well and one of the features of the system is you can finish out at #4000 grit which makes removing your sanding marks as easy as possible.

No matter how good you are, tackling a project like this is kind of risky because factory baked-on paint tends to be hard an thin. You can progress through the process and not make any mistakes until you get to the compounding step and it's very possible to make just one too many passes and start seeing the color of the color coat showing up on your buffing pad.

Good luck with the project, I'm sure others will chime in with more information to give you a hand...

I see Kevin's online, he's worked with the Abralon system much longer than I have so any specific advice he has consider it as good as gold. Kevin has forgotten more about wetsanding than the rest of us will ever know...


:)
 
The one thing that really concerns me is the front bumper. This thing is massive, and its plastic :nervous:

Be careful not to get the paint too hot when using a rotary buffer or you can do what's called twisting the paint...

Here's a real simple test you can do to monitor surface temp...

Fight or Flight Method for Gaging Surface Temperature


This is a pretty good read depending upon how much of a perfectionist you want to be and how much taping off you want to do...


The Rule of Thumb

:)
 
Did I mention this was probally gonna be a freebie. I'm such a smart businessman :)

===========================================================


Thanks for the info Mike. I will try my best to digest that. I bet posting on Tweeter gives you fits :poke:


Seriously though, :thankyousign:


============================================================


BTW The original version of THE BLOB is on TMC. I remember that movie scaring me to death as a child. Doesn't seem as scary now :dunno:
 
Hey Philbert,

The individual that coined the phrase; Now I've seen it all never could imagine just how shallow that statement would become.

Wet sanding can be a bit intimidating especially considering how thin these clear coats are today. If you take a step back, the damage is already done and you can only make it better not worse. This may culminate in mechanical refinishing these areas which only a paint shop can provide.

  • The first question is how deep are the scratches?
  • Did they breach the clear and possible into or through the color?
Are you machine sanding or by hand? Not seeing it I'd recommend approaching this bay hand sanding....

I'd start with 1500 grit wet / dry paper wrapped around a rubber sanding block. Begin of one of the more flatter or larger areas. Use a hose and keep a constant flow of water as you begin to sand. The flow of water acts as both a lubricant and keep the sand paper clean.

As you begin, you'll feel the block sliding or gliding across the surface so add more pressure and you'll begin to feel the paper cut and also see the water turning a bit milky.

1500 grit is somewhat aggressive but not as aggressive as you might think. This will smooth the area and then switch to a 2000 grit paper. It's a painstaking process and keeping aware of the sanding depth is crucial to your success.

From this point a rotary, wool pad and compound should begin to bring back the shine and progressively finer polishes will bring back the gloss nicely...

This is all providing you have paint to work with. There is a point of no return and once this is exceeded refinishing will be required.

Now how much of the finish was attacked wit the Brillo Pad? Did she do the entire car?

I didn't see the elaborate writeup Mike did......just a wee more information that I've provided....
 
Questions?

1) What speed should I be at?

2) How much pressure?

3) How much water?

1. High medium to fast speed. Which DA Polisher are you using? For the Meguiar's or the Porter Cable the 5 to 6 speed setting. For the Griot's unit probably about the 5.0 setting. You want the disc spinning all the time.


2. Light pressure, fast arm speed.


3. With either you want to keep the surface wet, get a spray bottle of clean water to keep the surface lubricated, if you sand with too little water your sanding discs will clog up.

When you say you're using P grades, what brand?

The 3M Trizact start cutting immediately unlike the Meguiar's Unigrit which have to break-in.


Very nice of you to try to fix the damage...


:xyxthumbs:
 
Be careful not to get the paint too hot when using a rotary buffer or you can do what's called twisting the paint...

Here's a real simple test you can do to monitor surface temp...

Fight or Flight Method for Gaging Surface Temperature


This is a pretty good read depending upon how much of a perfectionist you want to be and how much taping off you want to do...


The Rule of Thumb

:)

I'm pretty familiar with a rotary and am aware of getting the plastic to hot, but definately good info to add to this thread

Thank you again Mike :)

Hey Philbert,

The individual that coined the phrase; Now I've seen it all never could imagine just how shallow that statement would become.

Wet sanding can be a bit intimidating especially considering how thin these clear coats are today. If you take a step back, the damage is already done and you can only make it better not worse. This may culminate in mechanical refinishing these areas which only a paint shop can provide.

  • The first question is how deep are the scratches?
  • Did they breach the clear and possible into or through the color?
Are you machine sanding or by hand? Not seeing it I'd recommend approaching this bay hand sanding....

I'd start with 1500 grit wet / dry paper wrapped around a rubber sanding block. Begin of one of the more flatter or larger areas. Use a hose and keep a constant flow of water as you begin to sand. The flow of water acts as both a lubricant and keep the sand paper clean.

As you begin, you'll feel the block sliding or gliding across the surface so add more pressure and you'll begin to feel the paper cut and also see the water turning a bit milky.

1500 grit is somewhat aggressive but not as aggressive as you might think. This will smooth the area and then switch to a 2000 grit paper. It's a painstaking process and keeping aware of the sanding depth is crucial to your success.

From this point a rotary, wool pad and compound should begin to bring back the shine and progressively finer polishes will bring back the gloss nicely...

This is all providing you have paint to work with. There is a point of no return and once this is exceeded refinishing will be required.

Now much of the finish was attacked wit the Brillo Pad?


This is great info Bobby. Thank you very much :props:
 
THE BLOB got snuffed out by a fire extinguisher :(

=========================================================

So my neighbor came over and said the hood looks 100% better. I don't see 100% myself. The problem I'm seeing is where she musta been diggin in on some serious bugs. They're are like 8-12 spots on the hood alone like this

She said to do whatever I thought was best....I almost handed her back the keys

Tommorow is another day. I will keep you all posted how this goes
 
1. High medium to fast speed. Which DA Polisher are you using? For the Meguiar's or the Porter Cable the 5 to 6 speed setting. For the Griot's unit probably about the 5.0 setting. You want the disc spinning all the time.


2. Light pressure, fast arm speed.


3. With either you want to keep the surface wet, get a spray bottle of clean water to keep the surface lubricated, if you sand with too little water your sanding discs will clog up.

When you say you're using P grades, what brand?

The 3M Trizact start cutting immediately unlike the Meguiar's Unigrit which have to break-in.


Very nice of you to try to fix the damage...


:xyxthumbs:

Sorry Mike, I missed this one earlier ^

#1 I've been spinning on 4 (Griots)

#2 I think I got right

#3 Spray bottle is the way I've been going. My wife actually came out to lend a hand and nearly drowned me with it. I told her she was applying to much water, she set the botlle down and said "do it yoursellf then"

#4 The P3000 I have is a Meguiars brand. This might also be a good time to ad, that Kevin sent me a whole bag of different kinda disks 6 months back when I showed an intrest in learning more about this. I was planning on testing them on an auction car or something. Not really planning on doing my first job on a 4 month old car


* Note ~ I guess I should indulge that I do have an Ace up my sleeve should something go drastically wrong. I have a painter friend that will fix anything I might happen to mess up, if I will give him 1 week of slave labor

Thanks again Mike. You've been a great help :props:



you know I meant pics of the daughter right?

:rolleyes:

lol she is cute ;)
 
Im the MANDang Mike, best set of reply posts ever!:props::props::props::props::props::props: :cheers:
 
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