Need help choosing between DA or Rotary

blackinnova

blackinnova

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Hello, I'm newbie in detailing world

My plan is to learn detailing because i want to open my own mobile detailing business as soon as i have enough experience

So i've been reading AG for a week now, also been reading "complete guide to detailing" book, and i wanted to invest on a polishing machine, so i know the risk of buying a rotary - especially for beginner like me - but it's dilemma because i want a machine that can do good paint correction for hard paint, because my main goal is to provide detailing for many European cars, which are usually coated with hard paint, and just to be honest i don't have much budget, my option is now just to buy one machine, so it will be the rotary or DA.

I don't mind waxing with hand for a start, but i want machine that can do the best paint correction for all type of cars and paints, my goal in detailing business is to meets my customers need, just preparing for the worse scenario if someday customers with fully neglected paint - and also hard - came by and ask me to do full restore of the paint.

My question is:
1. What will be the best option for me, DA or Rotary?
2. Can DA polisher do all the hard job if combined with the right pad and product? (For example: hard paint equals super heavy cut and MF cutting pad with DA polisher)
3. Is it really "rocket science" learning the rotary polisher for beginner?
4. Do i have to buy more products (please refer to my products list below)?
5. Do i have to buy any sanding grit for paint correction?

Products that i already have:
1. Menz PG1000
2. Menz PF2500
3. Menz PP Ultra
4. Menz metal polish cream

Pads that i already have:
1. Flexi pads MF cutting
2. Flexi pads MF finish
3. LC thin pro ultra fine finish (red)

Clay that i already have:
1. EPIC clay bar (orange)
2. ONR as a clay lube

4pcs of premium grade MF towels, 2pcs bucket with grit guard, 1pcs MF washing mitts, CG citrus car wash soap, brushes, and other little things for washing process.

Thanks so much for your time, appreciate it

Cheers!


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Hey, blackinnova... I can offer my experience, albeit I am not a seasoned expert, but use a rotary and a DA; it's hard to beat the speed a rotary can provide in correction... and it's hard to beat the ease of use using a DA. I don't think it is hard to use a rotary given ample practice. I find my self enjoying the focus it takes using a rotary... on the flip side, lose focus for a moment and you may burn a panel edge. I use a Griots DA... got it after the cheap HF rotary. That DA's vibration is a little annoying after using the rotary, but you don't have to necessarily be in a zen state of focus using it either. It would be hard to say what products you'll need or may not need due to so many variables in paint and its issues. I got a cheap rotary and the Griots DA... they both have a place. I'd say if you're low on funds, look into a cheaper version of both and experiment to see what you like and can get the results you want with. Not a simple black and white answer I know... neither is paint correction or detailing. Good luck.
 
In relation to the above post, just curious, but whose vehicles are you going to use as guinea pigs as you "perfect" your rotary and or da skills?

It's a valid question. You get a rotary and do this to a car you are on the hook for all damages inflicted. This was in a local grocery store parking lot screaming out, "OUCH".

Note the burn through above the F Sport Logo. This was a brand new IS 350 F Sport, $50,000 ish.

I took this quick pic, the paint was way worse than this one picture shows.





My advice would be to get one of the great da starter kits offered here at AG and progress from there. They are great tools and very forgiving. As in all investments, you get what you pay for when it comes to da polishers and the kits.

Griot’s Garage Random Orbital Wolfgang Duo

What was ironic to me was I got out of my GC in the same lot, took this pic the same day.

Polished with my da. I was using a PC when I first bought this back in 2012. It or the GG6 are great tools.

 
Start with the Griot's 6" DA. Get the hang of working on paint using a tool that's safer and much easier to work with, yet still provides excellent performance with the types of pads and abrasives that are now on the market. You'll be hard pressed to find a detailer that doesn't use this type of Porter Cable polisher in their routine, it can do everything from heavy compounding to light final polishing, applying waxes and sealants and even scrub carpets with a brush attachment. An extremely versatile and useful tool, even when you have an arsenal of rotary or long throw polishers to complement it.

The rotary for me is task oriented, I bring it out when I need to compound heavy defects or if I come across that rare paint that allows me to final polish without leaving holograms behind. I don't use it for polishing the majority of the time and I certainly don't use it for waxing/sealing or applying glazes and non abrasive paint cleaners like you use with the Griot's DA. The rotary will absolutely take longer to master and control it on the paint.

With longer throw DA polishers and the Flex 3401, you'll find many detailers who no longer work with a rotary polisher at all. So I recommend to start with a tool that will always have a place in your routine for many jobs, and then if you find the need to hone your routine for efficiency, think down the road of adding a rotary or a long-throw or Flex 3401 style polisher into your arsenal.
 
Loach said:
Start with the Griot's 6" DA. Get the hang of working on paint using a tool that's safer and much easier to work with, yet still provides excellent performance with the types of pads and abrasives that are now on the market. You'll be hard pressed to find a detailer that doesn't use this type of Porter Cable polisher in their routine, it can do everything from heavy compounding to light final polishing, applying waxes and sealants and even scrub carpets with a brush attachment. An extremely versatile and useful tool, even when you have an arsenal of rotary or long throw polishers to complement it.

The rotary for me is task oriented, I bring it out when I need to compound heavy defects or if I come across that rare paint that allows me to final polish without leaving holograms behind. I don't use it for polishing the majority of the time and I certainly don't use it for waxing/sealing or applying glazes and non abrasive paint cleaners like you use with the Griot's DA. The rotary will absolutely take longer to master and control it on the paint.

With longer throw DA polishers and the Flex 3401, you'll find many detailers who no longer work with a rotary polisher at all. So I recommend to start with a tool that will always have a place in your routine for many jobs, and then if you find the need to hone your routine for efficiency, think down the road of adding a rotary or a long-throw or Flex 3401 style polisher into your arsenal.
Click to expand...
thats what i did now, 3401 combo with GG 6, from car to trucks work great on this combo with LC CCS and wool pads, and full range of carpro products.

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JimmyH5 said:
Hey, blackinnova... I can offer my experience, albeit I am not a seasoned expert, but use a rotary and a DA; it's hard to beat the speed a rotary can provide in correction... and it's hard to beat the ease of use using a DA. I don't think it is hard to use a rotary given ample practice. I find my self enjoying the focus it takes using a rotary... on the flip side, lose focus for a moment and you may burn a panel edge. I use a Griots DA... got it after the cheap HF rotary. That DA's vibration is a little annoying after using the rotary, but you don't have to necessarily be in a zen state of focus using it either. It would be hard to say what products you'll need or may not need due to so many variables in paint and its issues. I got a cheap rotary and the Griots DA... they both have a place. I'd say if you're low on funds, look into a cheaper version of both and experiment to see what you like and can get the results you want with. Not a simple black and white answer I know... neither is paint correction or detailing. Good luck.
Click to expand...

Thanks so much for your answer! That's really change my way of seeing the rotary polisher, i know the best option is to buy both cheap ones and just try the work out, but as i say, in Indonesia there isn't many choices either rotary or DA polisher, here we only got Shinemate for the DA (which is must be china's brand) and also for the rotary.

But there are another option like Dwalt DWP849X for the rotary and of course flex, bosch, and makita.


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custmsprty said:
In relation to the above post, just curious, but whose vehicles are you going to use as guinea pigs as you "perfect" your rotary and or da skills?

It's a valid question. You get a rotary and do this to a car you are on the hook for all damages inflicted. This was in a local grocery store parking lot screaming out, "OUCH".

Note the burn through above the F Sport Logo. This was a brand new IS 350 F Sport, $50,000 ish.

I took this quick pic, the paint was way worse than this one picture shows.





My advice would be to get one of the great da starter kits offered here at AG and progress from there. They are great tools and very forgiving. As in all investments, you get what you pay for when it comes to da polishers and the kits.

Griot’s Garage Random Orbital Wolfgang Duo

What was ironic to me was I got out of my GC in the same lot, took this pic the same day.

Polished with my da. I was using a PC when I first bought this back in 2012. It or the GG6 are great tools.

Click to expand...

Wow, that's really a nasty holograms and marring he got there. Thanks so much for your feedback, really appreciated it!

Many people in this forum also in this thread saying that i should just go with the DA, it's of course cannot do any harm to my paint, my test car is 2011 Toyota Innova (more like MPV with 7 doors and sharing the same chassis with toyota hi-lux there in america) i explained this because i know there wont be any type of this car outside Asia Pacific countries.

But my only concern is, i want to start the detailing business as soon as possible, i know this maybe like too fast or too soon, but with many other reasons i need to just get going. And i'm just concerned if the DA polisher cannot do paint correction fast enough compare to rotary polisher, because as we all know that time is money, and time in Indonesia is worth maybe half of your time in other countries, they can give us only $200 for full detailing, and $600 for full detailing plus paint coating even tough the working time maybe will takes 2-3 days.

By the way, that's a very nice car you got there! Did you polish it right after it comes from the dealers? Because rarely i can found that type of paint condition in Indonesia

Cheers!


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Loach said:
Start with the Griot's 6" DA. Get the hang of working on paint using a tool that's safer and much easier to work with, yet still provides excellent performance with the types of pads and abrasives that are now on the market. You'll be hard pressed to find a detailer that doesn't use this type of Porter Cable polisher in their routine, it can do everything from heavy compounding to light final polishing, applying waxes and sealants and even scrub carpets with a brush attachment. An extremely versatile and useful tool, even when you have an arsenal of rotary or long throw polishers to complement it.

The rotary for me is task oriented, I bring it out when I need to compound heavy defects or if I come across that rare paint that allows me to final polish without leaving holograms behind. I don't use it for polishing the majority of the time and I certainly don't use it for waxing/sealing or applying glazes and non abrasive paint cleaners like you use with the Griot's DA. The rotary will absolutely take longer to master and control it on the paint.

With longer throw DA polishers and the Flex 3401, you'll find many detailers who no longer work with a rotary polisher at all. So I recommend to start with a tool that will always have a place in your routine for many jobs, and then if you find the need to hone your routine for efficiency, think down the road of adding a rotary or a long-throw or Flex 3401 style polisher into your arsenal.
Click to expand...

Hei thank you for your answer! Really motivate me that i can use only DA polisher

But my concern is if DA polisher fast enough to do clean paint correction? Or you have to took like 20 passes above one section / panel just to get the swirl and scratches out?

Thanks so much


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blackinnova said:
Hei thank you for your answer! Really motivate me that i can use only DA polisher

But my concern is if DA polisher fast enough to do clean paint correction? Or you have to took like 20 passes above one section / panel just to get the swirl and scratches out?

Thanks so much


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Yes! on fast enough. Of course it depends on what level of damage you are dealing with, but with proper product/pad combination, 2-6 passes will clean up most swirls, RIDS, etc. You have to do test area to dial in combo for paint you're dealing with... starting with least aggressive combination that is likely to suit. See how paint RESPONDS to what you've done. If it takes 20 passes, by God step it up on aggressiveness!

Take the time to look through Mike Phillips' and others' training videos. For most jobs, they're using DAs.
Good luck!
 
FlyinLow said:
Yes! on fast enough. Of course it depends on what level of damage you are dealing with, but with proper product/pad combination, 2-6 passes will clean up most swirls, RIDS, etc. You have to do test area to dial in combo for paint you're dealing with... starting with least aggressive combination that is likely to suit. See how paint RESPONDS to what you've done. If it takes 20 passes, by God step it up on aggressiveness!

Take the time to look through Mike Phillips' and others' training videos. For most jobs, they're using DAs.
Good luck!
Click to expand...

Hi thanks for your reply! My choice of DA in Indonesia is only 600watt powered. If it can deal with hard paint? Let's say the combo is menz PG1000 + MF cutting

Cheers!


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What is the voltage/Freq in Hz of your incoming power supply at the outlet?
 
What frequency? Probably 50Hz, maybe 60Hz. Just check the plate on some appliance you use that was made for your area. One that does not have a range listed.
Oh, and what do you mean, "my choice of DA in Indonesia?" Do you have available locally any of the name brands we commonly discuss here? What are your import taxes like?
 
FlyinLow said:
What frequency? Probably 50Hz, maybe 60Hz. Just check the plate on some appliance you use that was made for your area. One that does not have a range listed.
Oh, and what do you mean, "my choice of DA in Indonesia?" Do you have available locally any of the name brands we commonly discuss here? What are your import taxes like?
Click to expand...

Ohh it's 60Hz, what's up with this?

Yes because the import tax here is very expensive, my only choice is Shine Mate ERO600 G1+ made in china, they're trying to copy PC model. And the wattage is only 600 watt, that's why i'm a bit worried because PC and GG usually have 700-850 watt (more powerful to do hard paint job).

For example, someone imported flex rotary here and it's cost $700 in Indonesia. So i will be choosing this if i already have steady income, but for now, i will put that aside first

Cheers!


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Well, yeah, Flex is expensive, and powerful... just checked Amazon.de and it was 375 Euros.
Not sure why you say "only" 600 Watts. Looked at PC label, and at 120V, 4.5 Amps, that's < 600W.
Since you're on 60 Hz, you could get a *quality* voltage step-down converter, a plug adaptor, and use an American machine. AutoGeek ships internationally. Think outside the box as far as getting something in from Europe if that's not an option, but many countries there run on 50Hz. You can also have a reputable electrician change the cord on your machine to plug in more easily.

Of course, you could get a local machine and try it out. You're going to have to spend some money to earn some money, and best bet is buying the best quality you can afford without it sending you into bankruptcy.

Hope this helps. At some point, you gotta dive right in.
 
Last edited:
Found this post by Bob from 2014... same sentiments then, too:
FUNX650 said:
PC 7424XP Electrical Specifications (USA):
120V; 4.5A; 540W

W = V X A..............W = V X A
W = 120 X 4.5........W = 220 X 4.5
W = 540................W = 990

For peak performance:
It's possible that you'll need a "step-down convertor"
capable of handling around 2-3 times the US wattage rating of 540W.

IMHO:
It's best to go to one of your local electrical supply house:
They should be able to provide you with the exact type of voltage convertor that's needed for your specific location; and, one that will also be in compliance with your local electrical codes.


Bob
Click to expand...
 
FlyinLow said:
Well, yeah, Flex is expensive, and powerful... just checked Amazon.de and it was over 400 Euros.
Not sure why you say "only" 600 Watts. Looked at PC label, and at 120V, 4.5 Amps, that's < 600W.
Since you're on 60 Hz, you could get a *quality* voltage step-down converter, a plug adaptor, and use an American machine. AutoGeek ships internationally. Think outside the box as far as getting something in from Europe if that's not an option, but many countries there run on 50Hz. You can also have a reputable electrician change the cord on your machine to plug in more easily.

Of course, you could get a local machine and try it out. You're going to have to spend some money to earn some money, and best bet is buying the best quality you can afford without it sending you into bankruptcy.

Hope this helps. At some point, you gotta dive right in.
Click to expand...

Thanks so much for your input, now i had clear mind on what equipment should i choose, so if i can have my hands on American machine, should it be GG or PC?

Cheers!


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blackinnova said:
should it be GG or PC?
Click to expand...

You could ask that question all day long. You'll find it to be a polarizing discussion, similar to the answers you'd get to "is wax B better than wax A?". They are both excellent starter DAs. Not even just starter. You would be happy and productive with either I am sure.

Signing out here... it's late in San Diego. Have fun detailing to do in a few hours!

Again, best of luck to you, Blackinnova! Selamat malam. Semoga berhasil.
 
FlyinLow said:
You could ask that question all day long. You'll find it to be a polarizing discussion, similar to the answers you'd get to "is wax B better than wax A?". They are both excellent starter DAs. Not even just starter. You would be happy and productive with either I am sure.

Signing out here... it's late in San Diego. Have fun detailing to do in a few hours!

Again, best of luck to you, Blackinnova! Selamat malam. Semoga berhasil.
Click to expand...

Thanks so much for your answer, terima kasih.


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