Need HELP with Mercedes paint

Atlcircuit

Atlcircuit

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Hey guys,

I'm new to joining the forum but have been reading the posts from the shadows for years. I consider myself to be a pretty good novice detailer, and I'm currently trying to learn my way around all the advanced products out there(not the ones you can buy in a local store). I love having a clean ride, and always want to ensure its protected from the elements outside. I realize asking about products is a very subjective question but I'm hoping Mike or someone with direct experience can shed some light. I've searched through some of the other topics in the forum as best i could, but figured i would get more detailed answers by asking directly.

I purchased a new 2014 Lunar Blue Metallic Mercedes ML350 last year from a local dealer for my wife. She did all the research and picked the car, color, etc.. I got the lucky job of going to sign the paperwork. On delivery day, the first day I actually saw the vehicle, it was overcast and rainy so it wasn't the best day to inspect the paint. I figured since the car only had 14 miles, it couldn't be that bad. While we were outside (covered) doing the walk around inspection, I noticed several swirl marks all over the car and mentioned it to the salesperson. He said to bring it back the following week and they would do a full detail for us. I was happy with that arrangement and thought that would fix the issue.

Due to scheduling conflicts we didn't make it back for the detail until two months later. I personally took the car in that day, and while I was there went and looked at the other new cars on the lot. To my surprise there were several other brand new Mercedes ranging in prices that had the same "spider web" problem. I quickly went to ask the salesman about this and also the detail manager. They gave me some lame excuse about that's the way Mercedes paints look, especially metallics. I think its the dealers car wash on the lot, but didn't say anything to them because they clearly are idiots!

Anyway to make a long story short, they did the detail and nothing has changed. It's been almost a year later and I can't stand it anymore. I would like to know what products, pads, procedures, etc.. are recommended to remedy this issue. I would also like to be able to use these same products on my X5 if possible. It's not in nearly as bad a condition as the MB, but I don't want my car to become the black sheep as hers shines. I tried to take a few pics with my phone so you could see the problem, but it's hard to capture the right lighting to get a good picture.

Any help is greatly appreciated. Feed back please

Thanks in advance,
Mike
 
Atlcircuit said:
Hey guys,

I'm new to joining the forum but have been reading the posts from the shadows for years. I consider myself to be a pretty good novice detailer, and I'm currently trying to learn my way around all the advanced products out there(not the ones you can buy in a local store). I love having a clean ride, and always want to ensure its protected from the elements outside. I realize asking about products is a very subjective question but I'm hoping Mike or someone with direct experience can shed some light. I've searched through some of the other topics in the forum as best i could, but figured i would get more detailed answers by asking directly.

I purchased a new 2014 Lunar Blue Metallic Mercedes ML350 last year from a local dealer for my wife. She did all the research and picked the car, color, etc.. I got the lucky job of going to sign the paperwork. On delivery day, the first day I actually saw the vehicle, it was overcast and rainy so it wasn't the best day to inspect the paint. I figured since the car only had 14 miles, it couldn't be that bad. While we were outside (covered) doing the walk around inspection, I noticed several swirl marks all over the car and mentioned it to the salesperson. He said to bring it back the following week and they would do a full detail for us. I was happy with that arrangement and thought that would fix the issue.

Due to scheduling conflicts we didn't make it back for the detail until two months later. I personally took the car in that day, and while I was there went and looked at the other new cars on the lot. To my surprise there were several other brand new Mercedes ranging in prices that had the same "spider web" problem. I quickly went to ask the salesman about this and also the detail manager. They gave me some lame excuse about that's the way Mercedes paints look, especially metallics. I think its the dealers car wash on the lot, but didn't say anything to them because they clearly are idiots!

Anyway to make a long story short, they did the detail and nothing has changed. It's been almost a year later and I can't stand it anymore. I would like to know what products, pads, procedures, etc.. are recommended to remedy this issue. I would also like to be able to use these same products on my X5 if possible. It's not in nearly as bad a condition as the MB, but I don't want my car to become the black sheep as hers shines. I tried to take a few pics with my phone so you could see the problem, but it's hard to capture the right lighting to get a good picture.

Any help is greatly appreciated. Feed back please

Thanks in advance,
Mike
Click to expand...


I did some MBs, and they are quite hard paint. I wasn't getting good results cutting with my Flex 3401, I cut with a rotary PE14 and mf pad with Menzerna Fg400. I used microfiber finishing pad for cutting, since it is less harsher. But only a spot test will tell you the truth. Later I polished with the 3401, Menzerna 3000 with white LC hybrid pad. If you going to cut with a rotary, use low speeds, always below 1000 rpms, to reduce swirls. What polishers/polish do you have?
 
It will depend on your skills, but maybe you should skip the rotary with mf pads, since it is very very abrasive. Also, You would need rotary mf pads, with a thicker foam.
Since I work with it, I cut with DA mf in a rotary, but I already did my share of screw ups. So, LC Orange hybrid, Menzerna fg400, and a flex. To finish, LC white or black, Menzerna 3000 or 4000.
 
RPM_BR said:
It will depend on your skills, but maybe you should skip the rotary with mf pads, since it is very very abrasive. Also, You would need rotary mf pads, with a thicker foam.
Since I work with it, I cut with DA mf in a rotary, but I already did my share of screw ups. So, LC Orange hybrid, Menzerna fg400, and a flex. To finish, LC white or black, Menzerna 3000 or 4000.
Click to expand...

I agree.
4-6 of each pad. Then don't forget iron x, clay or clay substitute. I don't know how much research you have done yet. Plenty of good microfiber towels. Some things you might want to consider, especially with MB and BMW is a good wheel cleaner, like Sonax, a good wheel brush.
 
What polisher are you considering buying?
 
hi Mike

:welcome:

Since that was your first post here, we're all wondering if you have any experience with polishers, pads and compounds. I'd guess not since you're looking for answers for a very standard situation. But no worries. We all started where you are now.

The problem you're looking to remedy is what we call DISO (Dealer Installed Swirl Option). The dealership messes up the paint on their cars and then pretends like that's normal. But obviously you know better.

There are several types of polishers.. rotary, forced-rotation Dual Action (DA), and free-spinning DAs. Listed in order of aggressive to reasonably foolproof.

I'd say forget about rotary polishers if you're a beginner. Those can get you into trouble. You want to start out with a DA... either forced-rotation, like a Flex brand... or free-spinning, like a Griot's Garage GG6, Meguiars G110v2, or Porter Cable 7424XP. You'll get various opinions on all of those, so you'll probably need to read up on them.

Once you figure out what polisher you want to use, then you can look at pads and cutting/polishing products.

The short answer for the moment is that it's hard for us to recommend the exact equipment for you and your car. It depends on your experience, ability, budget and the amount of time and effort you want to put in.

Keep in mind that even when you have all the equipment you need from start to finish, the process of correcting your paint will take at least one full day. Possibly several days. And the cost of the equipment and materials can easily be $200-600 to get started.

We all do it because we love the process and take pride in the results. But you might want to ask yourself right up front if it's something you want done once, or if you want to have the ability to fix these sort of problems in the future. I'm not trying to talk you out of trying. It's really not that hard. But it requires some time and dedication that most people won't bother with. If you'd rather not do it, you'll want to find a good car detailer in your area. You probably won't save any money compared to buying the equipment yourself. You'll just avoid the effort.

Now, that being said... for a beginner and your particular car, I'd suggest:

GG6 polisher
5" backing plate
5.5" Lake Country Hydrotech pads (several of all three colors)
Menzerna FG400 compound (or Wolfgang Uber Compound)
Menzerna SF4000 polish (or Wolfgang Finishing Glaze)

This is a user-friendly combination that you should be able to get the hang of pretty quickly, but still get good results.

Then whatever sealant you prefer or already own. Perhaps BlackFire Wet Diamond. And if you want it to look really good, a nice wax on top of that. BlackFire Midnight Sun.

You'll also need about a dozen good quality microfiber towels to clean sections as you polish. And clay to use before you begin compounding with the polisher.

That's the bare minimum of what should fix your problem.
 
Thanks for all the quick replies guys, and a BIG thank you to BrettS4 for the detailed response.

I know my question is a very standard one, but considering the type of cars I am working on, i wanted to reduce my margin of error and ask anyway. I've learned from reading several post on here(albeit subjective), that some products work better on certain makes than others. Since I will have to purchase all these products, I need to make sure I get the right ones, and that my procedures are correct. I knew this forum was full of people who took care of their cars and did it superbly!

If you couldn't tell from my original (lengthy) post, i am pretty detailed and extremely OCD. Things being clean and done right are very important to me, so spending a full day detailing my car to perfection would happen anyway. I've been detailing/cleaning cars since i was 16, so i don't consider myself a beginner. However compared to most on here, I may fall into that category. I do have a pretty good experience with polishers, pads, and compounds, but i definitely need to learn more.

This will be my first time using most of the advanced products mentioned. I will be starting my inventory from scratch, which is why i asked for specific products. My cars are investments and i believe in taking care of them, so i am willing to spend whatever is needed. I've read lots of good reviews on the PC 7424, so i was planning to use that as my polisher. All the LC pads are a little confusing, but I am a fast learner. If there is a good combo kit with polisher included, that would be great.

I am really looking for what will work the best (kit or not), and paying someone again to detail is not an option. I am way to meticulous, and would rather learn to do it myself. Nobody is going to take as good of care of my cars as i would(except maybe one of you)! :dblthumb2:

Thanks again for all the assistance!
 
Atlcircuit--You might want to consider the Griots Garage Polisher-it has much more torque than the PC (which you'll appreciate working on hard paint such as yours) and it has a lifetime warranty with excellent customer service. Equip it with a 5" backing plate and 5 or 5.5" pads and there isn't anything it can't handle. Pads can be very confusing--stay with flat pads and make sure you have enough for each step (compounding 4-6 pads, polishing 4-6 pads, applying LSPs 1 for each LSP you plan to use). Buff & Shine makes great pads, but they are not sold here. You might want to take a look at the new Megs THIN flat pads--there are only 3 (heavy cut, polishing, finishing) and they are getting excellent reviews. Meguiars 5 Inch DA Foam Discs With the right polish and the cutting pad your hard paint may finish well enough that you won't need to do two steps.
 
Autopia (AG sister company) does carry the Buff & Shine pads. I've had luck on a couple occasions getting one store to put something in my order for another store. You have to call AG customer service and ask (no guarantees, but it never hurts to ask).

I would recommend the GG6 and yes, you can get starter kits that include pads and some other things. As others have mentioned, if you get a starter kit, also order the 5" backing plate (Lake Country) and call customer service and ask them to switch out the 6.5 inch pads for the 5.5 inch pads. After trying a few different types of pads myself, I settled on the Lake Country 5.5 inch flat pads. I might also recommend some 4" and/or 3" pads as well (just make sure and get additional backing plates for these sizes).
 
Indeed, the PC is a bit weak, I own one, which I only have been using lately for spreading wax and sealants.
I don't have a GG6, but people who work with it love it. I think it is a best choice.
You could start with the LC flat pads line, the orange is a very good cutting pad.
But, since you have a MB and a BMW, I would buy Menzerna. The FG 400 and the 4000. The 4000 is very versatile, you can use a harder pad and it works like a 2500 or a 3000 with a softer pad. The FG 400 is hours concours, it cuts and finishes like no other. Imho, of course.
But I'm a big Menzerna fan, so my opinions regarding it are a bit biased. I also have Optimum, carpro, meg's, sonax but I always come back to Menz.
But incase you want Meg's, the 101/205 combo is really good.
My two cents
 
Hello Altcircuit,

My wife and I owned a 2008 ML350 in Metallic Gold (until last August, when we traded it in for a 2015 X5). I am not a professional detailer, so I can only give my very NON-expert advice.

Yes, my Mercedes clearcoat was hard as a rock! I always tried to follow Mike Phillip's advice to use the least agressive products and methods, but I found that because of the hardness I needed to double down, so to speak.

I purchased the GG6 and Menzerna polishes and had good results with them. A good idea is to buy a bunch of different pads and a number of different polishes so that you can test out and dial down until you get the proper results. It sounds that you might be able to go with Menzerna 400 to get the results you need. I also had good success with the Liquid Souveran wax. It seemed to really make my gold paint sparkle.

All I can say is enjoy your car and enjoy bringing out it's shine. And follow the advice of Mike and the guys who do this for a living.

Regards,

Ken
 
KenR said:
Hello Altcircuit,

Yes, my Mercedes clearcoat was hard as a rock! I always tried to follow Mike Phillip's advice to use the least agressive products and methods, but I found that because of the hardness I needed to double down, so to speak.

Ken
Click to expand...

This is the reason of cutting with mf, as I said in my first entry in this topic, since we have to obey to the deadline agreed with the customer. Indeed, hard as a rock, hard to scratch and hard to remove it.
I tend to prefer cutting with mf instead of wool, in a case of hard paint, because I prefer dealing with hazyness afterwards (caused by mf, as the side effect of cutting) than dealing with swirls induced by wool. Mr. Phillips, our master, introduced me to the LC electrified wool, which I just received and I'm eager to test it. Will it cut it and leave it less swirls? Probably, but I have to see it myself, and see if I will adapt to it, and to see if it will taylor to my needs, to my personal style.
One other thing, if you want to start using microfiber pads, use finishing pads to cut it first, since they are less abrasive, until you feel more confident to move forward to mf cutting pad.
If I use a rotary, which is obviously more powerful than a DA, I still use mf finishing pads most of the time. It is safer.
 
I wouldn't underestimate the Porter Cable. Choice of compound, technique, and pad seem to make the most difference.

For instance, using a rupes microfiber cutting disc dressed with Meguiar's m105, I have no problem eliminating 1000 grit sanding marks, on speed 4.5, using light to moderate pressure.

In that scenario, I had quality components, but the biggest variable was the technique.

I've also had great success with the green Hex Logic foam pad. This is my primary cutting pad, as in my experience it is more aggressive than the pads they designate as more aggressive than the green - yellow (heavy cut), and orange (medium cut). I suppose it's due to the rougher feel, larger pores, and open cell, reticulated foam formula. The distributor claims this pad was created to address Mercedes paints at the oem level - which is probably more marketing semantics, but I have burned paint with this pad, and Meguiar's Ultimate Compound on a Porter Cable. Also, because the pores are large, and can quickly over saturate I use way less product than I see many others using. My thought is that it helps allow the foam to assist in the abrasion process.

When I started polishing with a rotary, I was fearful of damaging the paint, yet had to teach myself because forums weren't around in those days... So I wanted to start with as light a touch as possible, while still correcting the paint. What I notice about myself, is that in light of my rotary experience, I've translated that to my d/a technique.

While this all is contrary to almost all of the tutorials I've come across, I stick with it because it works for me.

Regardless, there are many more talented guys on this board, these are just my experiences, and observations. Good luck with your endavor!

:xyxthumbs:
 
dlc95 said:
I wouldn't underestimate the Porter Cable. Choice of compound, technique, and pad seem to make the most difference.

For instance, using a rupes microfiber cutting disc dressed with Meguiar's m105, I have no problem eliminating 1000 grit sanding marks, on speed 4.5, using light to moderate pressure.

In that scenario, I had quality components, but the biggest variable was the technique.

I've also had great success with the green Hex Logic foam pad. This is my primary cutting pad, as in my experience it is more aggressive than the pads they designate as more aggressive than the green - yellow (heavy cut), and orange (medium cut). I suppose it's due to the rougher feel, larger pores, and open cell, reticulated foam formula. The distributor claims this pad was created to address Mercedes paints at the oem level - which is probably more marketing semantics, but I have burned paint with this pad, and Meguiar's Ultimate Compound on a Porter Cable. Also, because the pores are large, and can quickly over saturate I use way less product than I see many others using. My thought is that it helps allow the foam to assist in the abrasion process.

When I started polishing with a rotary, I was fearful of damaging the paint, yet had to teach myself because forums weren't around in those days... So I wanted to start with as light a touch as possible, while still correcting the paint. What I notice about myself, is that in light of my rotary experience, I've translated that to my d/a technique.

While this all is contrary to almost all of the tutorials I've come across, I stick with it because it works for me.

Regardless, there are many more talented guys on this board, these are just my experiences, and observations. Good luck with your endavor!

:xyxthumbs:
Click to expand...

Sir, I have some CG green hex logic pads from the early days of detailing, when I bought tons of stuff just to see what would fit my needs. Could you be so kindly and explain me better about your preference for it?
For instance, you use it on a rotary and on a DA?
What products do you use with it?
I like it when people doesn't go mainstream, like using LC flats and following everybody else's preferences and find personal solutions, since hex logic are not commonly referred here. I know it will be a bit off topic, but could you share a bit more your knowledge about it?
When I read UK forum sites, there are a lot of people who uses flexipads over there, which made me curious and willing to import some flexipads pads, because as you may be aware they have similar design, but the common thought is that hex structures mar the paint. So, I went LC all the way.
And, thanks to you, I will try to use more my PC, which became the ugly duck of my tools, after the advent of a Flex and Rupes. But the PC is so lightweight and small, it is a joy to use as far as manouverability goes, though it shakes a lot, but I always leave it behind and get my 3401 instead.
All the best, and thanks in advance. RPM
 
I know what you are saying about not wanting to pay a professional to detail your car. We all are here to learn and do it ourselves. It is fun and, as you say, no one can care for your own car like you do. So, you may not want to hear what I am about to say. There are times when a professional's help is necessary (or at least wise) and this may be one of those times. You have lived with the problem too long (did you say over a year?). There is nothing wrong, no matter how much you want to do it yourself, with getting professional help to finally resolve the paint situation. Then, after the problem is solved you can maintain the car yourself. Your cars tell me that money is not a problem for you so you may have to get over the notion that you don't want to pay for another detail and just get the right kind of help, at least this once. It is too good a car and paint to let it go further.

I own an ML350 in Diamond White so it is much easier to maintain than your blue, which btw, is rare and very beautiful, especially on an ML. Once your correction is completed by the best pro you can find, it will be a piece of cake to keep it in great shape from that point on. Simply put, there are times and situations where it is in the best interest for you and your car, to seek out the expertise of those that have the equipment and experience to get your new ride off on the right foot. In certain situations it just makes sense.
 
RPM_BR said:
Sir, I have some CG green hex logic pads from the early days of detailing, when I bought tons of stuff just to see what would fit my needs. Could you be so kindly and explain me better about your preference for it?
For instance, you use it on a rotary and on a DA?
What products do you use with it?
I like it when people doesn't go mainstream, like using LC flats and following everybody else's preferences and find personal solutions, since hex logic are not commonly referred here. I know it will be a bit off topic, but could you share a bit more your knowledge about it?
When I read UK forum sites, there are a lot of people who uses flexipads over there, which made me curious and willing to import some flexipads pads, because as you may be aware they have similar design, but the common thought is that hex structures mar the paint. So, I went LC all the way.
And, thanks to you, I will try to use more my PC, which became the ugly duck of my tools, after the advent of a Flex and Rupes. But the PC is so lightweight and small, it is a joy to use as far as manouverability goes, though it shakes a lot, but I always leave it behind and get my 3401 instead.
All the best, and thanks in advance. RPM
Click to expand...

Absolutely.

First, I use the green Hex Logic on both the PC, and the Flex 3401. I've done testing with a Rupes Duetto, and will proceed with using them together once the weather allows me to get back to work.

I've used both Meguiar's Ultimate Compound, and M105. I've tested Menzerna FG 400 with the green and have no reason to believe I'll get less than my desired results.

I believe the flexipads version is different than the CG version. Buff and Shine actually manufactures the Hex Logic pads.

In the 5.5" da pad line up of both B&S, and HL, Two types of foam are utilized - "reticulated" (open cell), and "European prepolymer" closed cell). The Yellow, Orange, White, and Red fall under the prepolymer designation, and the Green, Blue, and Grey fall under the reticulated designation. Another interesting note is that the "heavy cut" yellow is softer, than the "medium cut" orange". The yellow behaves more like the white, but seems to have a bit rougher surface texture than both the orange and white, while the green (light cut / heavy polish) is the roughest of all.

Because I prefer to use a lighter touch, I chose the green Hex Logic because the open celled foam composition would in essence do some of the pressure work for me, by inducing it's own cut, thus reducing the amount of downward pressure I would need to introduce to the paint. Adam's actually discontinued this foam in their offering, because they deemed it "unsafe" for their users (then again, they advise to place enough pressure on the polisher until the back plate barely rotates, which may take the cutting to an extreme with that pad, the complete opposite of my approach.). Other aspects that I like about the larger pore pad is how it handles the residue, and how they run cooler. The variegated hex design takes the cooling effect even further.

A closed cell, or a firm open cell pad with smaller pores will have a smoother surface, and not induce so much cut of it's own. This allows the user to more determine the impact of cut via operator pressure. I actually really like the orange or yellow hex logic pads for "one step" polishing with a medium polish, because they leave a pretty nice finish.

I also find that "seasoning", or "priming" the green or blue pads works against them. They become over saturated and hyper lubricated, which will diminish the cutting efforts.

Actually, one only need to look at the Rupes system approach to see where I'm coming from. I didn't know what a Rupes was when I settled on my choices.

I plan on doing some demos of my pad choices this spring/summer, using a variety of compounds, on the PC, Duetto, and the 3401. If I have the Flex pe14, by then, I'll demo that as well.
 
I'd recommend getting the Wolfgang 4 and Flex 3401 and just start out on the right foot to start with.



The Wolfgang Four


Here are four products that will take care of about 99.9% of any exterior paint correction product you'll ever have in your garage.


The Wolfgang Four
The_Wolfgang_Four.jpg



Forum member RFulmer coined this term, (due credit where credit is due), and since there's been a lot of questions about what each product is, what they do, the order of aggressiveness and when you use one over the other, here's some info...





Uber Compound
  • Aggressive Compound - More aggressive than Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover and Wolfgang Finishing Glaze.
  • For use with any type of polisher/buffer and can be used by hand.
  • Body Shop Safe = Can be used in a fresh paint. environment (body shop) and can be used on fresh paint, (paint just sprayed and less than 30 days old).
  • Safe for Ceramiclear paints.
  • Cafe for all clear coat paints.
  • Safe for all single stage paints.
  • For some people on some cars it can be used as a compound/polish after which the paint can be sealed with a wax or synthetic paint sealant.


Total Swirl Remover
  • Medium Cut Polish - Less aggressive than Uber Compound and more aggressive than Wolfgang Finishing Glaze.
  • For use with any type of polisher/buffer and can be used by hand.
  • Body Shop Safe = Can be used in a fresh paint. environment (body shop) and can be used on fresh paint, (paint just sprayed and less than 30 days old).
  • Safe for Ceramiclear paints.
  • Cafe for all clear coat paints.
  • Safe for all single stage paints.
  • Should be tested before using Uber Compound to see if it will remove defects to our satisfaction in keeping with the practice of using the least aggressive product to get the job done.


Finishing Glaze
  • Fine Cut Polish - Much less aggressive than Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover and of course dramatically less aggressive than Wolfgang Uber Compound.
  • For use with any type of polisher/buffer and can be used by hand.
  • Body Shop Safe = Can be used in a fresh paint. environment (body shop) and can be used on fresh paint, (paint just sprayed and less than 30 days old).
  • Safe for Ceramiclear paints.
  • Cafe for all clear coat paints.
  • Safe for all single stage paints.
  • Should be tested before using Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover to see if it will remove defects to our satisfaction in keeping with the practice of using the least aggressive product to get the job done.
  • Great "Maintenance Polish" for use removing shallow swirls that show up over time from normal wear-n-tear on daily drivers and after a person has already performed a multi-step procedure to remove serious paint defects.


Deep Gloss Paint Sealant 3.0
  • German engineered synthetic paint sealant.
  • Non-cleaning, pure synthetic - Paint must be in excellent condition as in brand new or previously polished to like new condition before use.
  • Can be applied by hand or any type of dual action polisher wit foam pads.
  • This product "seals" the paint in the say way a car wax or paint coating will seal the paint. It is water insoluble and as such like all synthetic paint sealants, car waxes and paint coatings is not body shop safe.
  • Requires 30 to 45 minutes of drying time before removal.
  • Oxygen activated. After buffing off the excess sealant the remaining protection ingredients should be allowed to cure and fully set-up for an approximate 12 hour window of time before the vehicle is put back into service where it will be exposed to water.
Synergistic Chemical Compatibility
Each product is chemically compatible and chemically beneficial when used as a system approach to take a diamond in the rough and turn it into a glistening gemstone. Using the entire line in the correct order or just a few of the product in the correct order is an example of working forward in the paint polishing process.


All Inclusive System-Approach
This group of four products with just about any tool, any pad and even by hand will produce not only show car results but do it consistently across a VERY wide spectrum of paint systems including,
  • Hard paints, soft paints and everything in-between.
  • Factory OEM paints and aftermarket repaints at your local body shop or custom paint shop.
  • Single stage and basecoat clearcoat.
Which products do you need?
Which product you'll need depend upon the condition of the paint on the car. Click to my list of paint condition categories and read through the descriptions for the different categories. Then after washing and drying your car, inspect the paint both with your sense of touch, (The Baggie Test), and visually with your eyes in bright light for swirls and scratches.

Then determine which category your car's paint fall into. Here are some general guidelines but the best way to determine which exact product you'll need to remove the defects and restore the finish on your car to your expectations can only be determined by doing a Test Spot


How To Do a Test Spot


Test Spot results showing the before and after difference...

FlexVideo005.jpg







On Autogeek.net

Wolfgang Uber Compound 3.0

Total Swirl Remover

Finishing Glaze

Deep Gloss Paint Sealant 3.0



:xyxthumbs:
 
Get the Flex 3401, the Lake Country Adapter Plate System and then get the orange, white and black Lake Country Hybrid Pads in 6.5" and 5" and you can tackle anything using this took, thees pads and the Wolfgang Four.

Also get a copy of my how-to book and read it from cover to cover before you even take the Flex out of the box.



How to use the Flex XC 3401 VRG Dual Action Polisher
For both Production Detailing & Show Car Detailing



:dblthumb2:
 
dlc95 said:
Absolutely.

First, I use the green Hex Logic on both the PC, and the Flex 3401. I've done testing with a Rupes Duetto, and will proceed with using them together once the weather allows me to get back to work.

I've used both Meguiar's Ultimate Compound, and M105. I've tested Menzerna FG 400 with the green and have no reason to believe I'll get less than my desired results.

I believe the flexipads version is different than the CG version. Buff and Shine actually manufactures the Hex Logic pads.

In the 5.5" da pad line up of both B&S, and HL, Two types of foam are utilized - "reticulated" (open cell), and "European prepolymer" closed cell). The Yellow, Orange, White, and Red fall under the prepolymer designation, and the Green, Blue, and Grey fall under the reticulated designation. Another interesting note is that the "heavy cut" yellow is softer, than the "medium cut" orange". The yellow behaves more like the white, but seems to have a bit rougher surface texture than both the orange and white, while the green (light cut / heavy polish) is the roughest of all.

Because I prefer to use a lighter touch, I chose the green Hex Logic because the open celled foam composition would in essence do some of the pressure work for me, by inducing it's own cut, thus reducing the amount of downward pressure I would need to introduce to the paint. Adam's actually discontinued this foam in their offering, because they deemed it "unsafe" for their users (then again, they advise to place enough pressure on the polisher until the back plate barely rotates, which may take the cutting to an extreme with that pad, the complete opposite of my approach.). Other aspects that I like about the larger pore pad is how it handles the residue, and how they run cooler. The variegated hex design takes the cooling effect even further.

A closed cell, or a firm open cell pad with smaller pores will have a smoother surface, and not induce so much cut of it's own. This allows the user to more determine the impact of cut via operator pressure. I actually really like the orange or yellow hex logic pads for "one step" polishing with a medium polish, because they leave a pretty nice finish.

I also find that "seasoning", or "priming" the green or blue pads works against them. They become over saturated and hyper lubricated, which will diminish the cutting efforts.

Actually, one only need to look at the Rupes system approach to see where I'm coming from. I didn't know what a Rupes was when I settled on my choices.

I plan on doing some demos of my pad choices this spring/summer, using a variety of compounds, on the PC, Duetto, and the 3401. If I have the Flex pe14, by then, I'll demo that as well.
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Thanks a lot, Sir, for taking your time to share your knowledge. I will try it. By tbe way, I have a Flex pe14, amazing, quiet, light, powerful rotary. I'm glad I bought it instead of a Makita. I use mf finishing pads, FG400 and the pe14 for cutting hard paints. I prefer mf finishing pads for cutting, it leaves a nicer output. All the best. RPM
 
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